UKC

Interview for a new job on Weds - first time I'll have been interviewed, face to face, in more than 25 years (wish me luck!). Do people still wear ties? 

Best of luck on Wednesday. When it comes to suits and ties you are always better off wearing one if you think you might need one. It depends on the position you are going for? Can u let us know? 

yes good question - it's an office job, in communications, for an NHS trust. Not operating a power lathe or doing emergency roadside breakdown assistance

People generally don't wear ties anymore.

The only people in Civil Engineering that do are generally people high up, that want you to know they are high up. 

But I'd still wear one to an interview.

You'll never to held back by wearing one, worst case, it has no impact.

You want to show you are taking it seriously and you care about getting a job.

Do you have a job spec? And/or any details of the interview techniques used, questions they will ask etc?

If so, or even if not to be honest, I found ChatGPT to be a really useful tool.

I recently give it a link to a job spec and asked it to interview me for the role and it did a great job. It was all a bit positive about anything I said and next time I'd ask it to pick holes in my answers, as more probing follow-up questions etc, but as a way to get me thinking about my experience and how it relates to the requirements etc I found it hugely valuable.

Wear a tie, especially for NHS interviews. It absolutely won't count against you, so don't worry.

Good luck!

Word of advice.. NHS interviews are very controlled. We have to ask exactly the same to every candidate and use a scoring scheme. There’s some flexibility on how we score the answers but not a lot. You won’t get a lot of credit for adding tangential info..

also when we interview the application form is basically ignored (used for shortlisting only) so don’t assume that the interviewers will take into account what you wrote there in the scoring. Say it again if it’s relevant to the question! 

This is even more true since chatGPT et al, because most applications are AI written and indistinguishable.

hth
 

Wearing suit and tie is unlikely to ever lose you a job. The interviewers may have a smirk about it but should realise that at least you made an effort. Conversely turning up in casual dress could be a mark against you.

Do what I do. Dress for the job you want, not the job you have. Although I do sometimes have to explain my Batman costume

NHS interviews offer no prizes for intelligent and articulate answers that are not catered for in the scoring guide, which essentially states buzzwords and key phrases that are expected. A PhD level answer will likely score zero, particularly as it means the interviewee knows way more about it than all the interviewers put together, who will therefore retreat to the scoring guide which rewards buzzwords in non-thinking answers and does not reward relevant intelligent thought!

I was once asked an ethics question in an NHS interview. I have a degree including moral philosophy so responded at that level. Interview feedback was that I scored zero for that question, and that I clearly misunderstood the question. The only misunderstanding was the interviewers not understanding that a strong answer may not be a verbal vomit of the buzzwords they want to hear. 

Good luck!

Your implicit assumption that NHS interviewers (which I am one of)  are idiots because they don’t have PhDs in ethics is a bit offensive tbh. Criticise the system by all means, but not the people (en masse anyway). Also remember it’s a healthcare system not a university.. thx

Mike

Whoah!

I do not think that and that is not my assumption.

My post was an illustration of how crazy the NHS interview system is: interviews have a very strict marking guide such than a well considered answer (which surely you want interviewees to give?) will often score zero, as it does not get ticks in the boxes for what are perceived to be the necessary buzzwords. I stand by my view that that is a ridiculous way to run interviews. 

I made no en masse comment about interviewers that implies they are idiots.

Besides..... I have no PhD so it would be a bit odd of me to call people who don't have a PhD an idiot. I really do not see where you get that view of what I said from. I said a PhD level answer will likely score zero - there is no comment in there about people who have no PhD.

Well, as someone who spends a lot of time chairing these panels, I'd say that's nonsense.  I suspect your angels-dancing-on-pinheads nuances weren't the practical applied ethics they wanted to hear about for a clinical situation.  I also suspect your disdain for the process was probably more evident than you imagine and the scoring is certainly flexible enough to accommodate that!

I’m with Mike on this having been an interviewer in the past.

For sure you ask questions in a structured and prescribed way, this to ensure an objective and fair interview for all candidates.

But us interviewers are not idiots and will obviously use our judgement when scoring the answers.

You want the best candidate.

Dude, can you try to see it from the viewpoint of those who are interviewed rather than of the system? My experiences and views of it are not exactly unique - pretty much everyone I work with has a personal story of the bizarre NHS interview process. 

Thanks. Just to add, only last week we interviewed several ‘buzzword salad’ candidates and they scored very poorly.

I agree interviewers are not idiots. I never said or implied they are idiots.

It is Mike who decided to bring the term "idiots" into the discussion.

I am doing some interviewing at the moment for junior developers (over Teams).

As one of the interviewers, I've made sure I've worn a proper shirt with a collar, but ties don't seem to be the norm.

As a candidate, however, I'd err in favour of wearing a tie.

To my great embarassment, I did a second interview last week with a senior manager from our company and he was just wearing a plain round-neck T-shirt, which I didn't feel was a good advertisement for the company!

Weirdest interview I've ever had was when the company seemed to have someone else's CV, not mine - muck up from the employment agency. Take a spare copy of yours, just in case.

Make sure you are there a few minutes early.

PhD or degree.. whatever. The point is you clearly tried to pull the academic high ground over your interviewers (and potential future managers). Then you claim the only reason you didn’t score highly was that they couldn’t appreciate your genius. When all they probably wanted was reassurance that you could act ethically in a clinical or patient scenario (clearly I don’t know what job you applied for - maybe it was chief academic ethicist but I doubt it). Your disdain for the process is evident as moacs pointed out, and there we have it. 
 

I’ll be charitable and suggest that perhaps you applied for the wrong job..

“means the interviewee knows way more about it than all the interviewers put together, who will therefore retreat to the scoring guide which rewards buzzwords in non-thinking answers and does not reward relevant intelligent thought!”

i summarised

Interviewers often don’t wear ties as they will be working in clinical areas (maybe on the same day) where they are not allowed. Candidates are fine to do so.

Dude

You keep making staggering assumptions.

I did not try to pull any high ground, I merely answered the question based on my knowledge of the topic.

I said absolutely nothing about genius, in the same way I said nothing about idiots. You are introducing those words, not me, then criticising me for the words that you bring into the discussion. You do seem to be choosing to take criticism of the system/process personally, as if criticism of you, which it is not. 

I'd recommend asking people who have sat on the other side of the desk what their experience of the NHS interview system is, pretty much everyone I know at work has a bizarre story about it. 
 

I didn’t realise we were playing a game where I could only use words you’d already used. I do apologise!

Dude

You are being childish now.

I criticised the system, not the people.

I wish you all the best at work and in your climbing.

Maybe depends where you work Nick….

Where I work (NHS) we usually meet as a panel about half an hour before the interviews and decide what questions we are asking and in what order. They are scored but there is flexibility and the options to ask further detail in the hope that we give the candidates the best chance of coming across well. Buzzwords would be a great turnoff for me…we look for solid clinicians with good ideas and a genuine interest in the field that we work in.
 

* Ripper….good luck. Our comms lead tends to wear trousers and shirt….no tie, but that’s just one Trust….not sure about others!

I am sure there is a lot of variation given that the NHS is so vast. 

Certainly up here I have been told numerous times by NHS interviewers that they score answers for use of specific "right" words and that not using those specific words will get low score.

Exactly….and every Trust will have their policies which will vary! I’ve walked out of an NHS interview before now….the opening questions were so poor and the lead  interviewer was such an arse I just decided to cut it short! Some people seem to see interviewing as some kind of hierarchical process!

The interviewers should ignore the system they are being told to use if that’s the case!! For clinical jobs I don’t see how there can be ‘right’ words! For questions on things like diversity for example, there will be certain words not to use as a candidate but if you want to recruit the best people you want people who can think for themselves and also challenge the system to some degree. Maybe there is also variation in the areas…I work in mental health so how the candidate comes across is just as important as the answers to questions!

I know someone who was asked in interview how they would communicate with a patient who only spoke Sri Lankan.

What the scoring mechanism wanted was for interviewees to say "I would use the hospital's external interpreter service".

The interviewee did not say that; he came up with seeing if friends/family can translate, seeing if a member of staff can translate, using google translate, using preprinted language cards and several other options.

He scored zero for communication because he did not use the phrase "external interpreter service", despite clearly demonstrating that he has the nous to find numerous ways to communicate with a patient who speaks Sri Lankan. 

Sounds like poor interviewing and a poor selection process. That example is also situation specific and a pragmatic approach would be required. If it was someone presenting to A&E in a crisis of course one would use family/friends/google translate etc but if you were meeting with the family to consider advanced decisions then an interpreter would be required for the assurance part of good clinical governance. If interviewers are so restricted by a poor scoring structure they need to challenge it!

I recently applied for jobs and I would say wear a tie. The only time I've seen my boss wearing a tie is when he's interviewing people. It looks like you've made an effort.

I attended some interviewing workshops and the most useful thing was to have ready the answers to 5 specific questions so you can give great answers to them. I was actually asked all 5 in my second round interview. They were - 

 - Why do you want to leave your current role (exit explanation)

 - Why do you want to join this organisation

 - Why do you want this role

 - What makes you suitable for this role, what skills do you have (think up why it won't be a problem why you don't have all the required skills)

 - Can't remember question number 5

Thanks all, some good useful input. Was always going to wear a suit and shirt, just wasn't 100% on the tie but will go with it on the principle of better too much than too little. Other points raised are all noted, cheers 👍

Gosh this got feisty. 

I'm not NHS but in a not dissimilar organisation. Some good advice here. I would assume the ad includes guidance that says specifically what behaviours/skills/experience you will be assessed on and how. Follow that and make sure you cover each point in a way where it's easy for an exhausted interviewer to tick off each one as they listen.

For all the faults of a rigid process (which probably will be interpreted slightly differently by different interviewers, but hence there's a panel), once you know the format everyone should be playing on a reasonably (ISH) level field, and there's a hell of a lot of good to be said for that. The extra bumpf might build rapport and make them view your answers more or less favourably as they read between the lines, but I'm quite glad to live in a world where interviewers have to follow a formula and thus are loosely held to account for making evidence-based hiring decisions. 

Well yes of course he did. The NHS pay a great deal of money to have an external interpreter service available to staff 24/7 in a very wide range of languages. The people who will be providing the interpretation will well trained, assessed, of a good standard and will know that there’s a lot at stake so to not guess or make poor translations if they not sure. 

Google translate, or the help of a relative of friend doesn’t come with any guarantees that they are of an acceptable standard, and so to have a staff member go off piste and ignore the already paid for service and wing it with google translate or asking around demonstrated they don’t understand the correct procedure or what the risks are with not using it.

I can completely understand why this seems silly, but think of it from the other side. A patient comes in who can’t speak English, a friend badly translates what the issue is, the patient doesn’t receive the correct treatment and karks it. Family want to know why their relative received substandard care and it turns out it was due to a bad translation as the staff member didn’t follow the procedure. NHS gets sued.

You don't take feedback, do you?

That probably shows up as well.

The interviewers generally know a great deal about what they're looking for and are quite adept at spotting it

Well, this thread played out before I had time to make a sensible contribution.

My remaining advice: Don’t wear a skinny tie.  It doesn’t look as cool as you think.

The knowledge and operation of which I would expect to be part of someone’s early training if they got the job, *not* part of their background knowledge coming in to a job interview.

In an interview I’m looking to see what someone’s critical thinking and problem solving skills are like, not what their knowledge of my business’ ways of working is.  For reasons I would have hoped are obvious.

They were not a member of staff 

How would a person who is not a member of staff understand the correct procedure for members of staff?

I assume having read and memorised the entire procedure book for the NHS is not an essential skill in any adverts recruiting people in to the system.  

I hope I have been sufficiently clear.

unless its got piano keys on it and is leather

The post didn't say that the person wasn't already a member of the NHS.  I made the assumption that they were based on the information given (that they were scored zero on one point as they weren't aware of the exact term of an internal NHS service).

Even if they weren't I would expect a layman to understand the importance of accurate translation in a medical setting, and it doesn't take a genius to work out that the correct procedure probably isn't "ask family around family & friends and see if they can help, or use google translate". 

Even saying "I'm, not sure what I'd do, so I'd escalate it to a more senior staff member" is a better, safer answer than the "wing it" approach!

You might want have a think about your own own approach critical thinking and problem solving.

I’ve fond memories of doing a 6 monthly review meeting with a placement student and their university supervisor to assess progress for the year.

It was done over teams. As I was representing my company I wore a collar and tie, as did the university lecturer.

Our placement student had joined the call but had his camera off.

We asked him to turn it on… He was still in bed, wearing a white running vest and a pink bandanna 😀

Variations of - "Tell me about a time you had to deal with....."

Hi

The applicant was not in the NHS, it was an application to start work in the NHS. My bad though for not making this clear.

I don't think the applicant's answer was winging it. I interpret it as demonstrably having a problem solving mentality to find different ways of dealing with problems. 

As a different issue, the reality is that all the ideas the person came up with are used in the NHS up and down the country every day. Perhaps the answers reflected what the applicant had seen NHS employees doing in shadowing/career exploration. But that is speculation. 

Fair enough, that’s does seem rather silly in that case!

That said, I reckon if you get asked a question you don’t know the answer to in an interview, it’s better to just be clear and say you don’t know rather than guess.

I had a job interview once where int interviewer asked me “in the context of this role, can you tell me what [some letters I forget now] stand for”

My answer ”No”

I’ve been in the job over 5 years now

I was not personal or snippy in my response to you, so I am not sure why you are turning this personal?

I thought about everything you said before posting.  If you re-read my response to you, you will note that I did not express an opinion on the interview question/response in any way.

I simply, only, commented (a) that in your post, you were looking for knowledge an employee should have and that it is not reasonable to expect an interview candidate to have and (b) I am looking for critical thinking / problem solving not prior knowledge of internal procedure.

I will continue to refrain from expressing my view on what an appropriate response might or might not be, because I am making a completely separate and, I had though, very clear point.  I certainly think there is a discussion to be had about what would be a better response than the one on the thread, but I don’t think your suggestion is at all appreciate for reasons I gave and I specifically limited myself to that one point to try and avoid misunderstandings.  Yet here we are.

Yes, they were applying for a job with the NHS and asking about interview etiquette with an eye to that. Assuming said person already worked in the NHS and has no knowledge of interview etiquette in the NHS and decided to ask UKC over their colleagues in the NHS is a very specific and non-intuitive compound assumption to make and not state.  

Read as a bit snippy to me, apologies if that wasn't your intention.  

If you scroll up you'll see that I was responding to a post written by somebody else, not the OP, who was telling an anecdote about their friend who we've no further info about.  

I was trying to be very clear, not snippy, as I’ve noticed increasingly that when I post against one small part of a post it tends to get taken as being in opposition to all of that post.

Certainly wasn’t meant to come across as snippy.

It is difficult on a thread like this, but again it’s not an obvious assumption that someone applying to work in an organisation already works in that organisation and is ignorantly of said organisation’s policies…

Now we are on the same page, if I had been interviewing the insight into the candidates ways of thinking I’d be looking for is “what resources do I have available”.  That’s a far more reasonable thing to expect them to go to than knowing the details of what’s actually available.