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Can anyone give me some advice as a 1st time buyer? We saw a house today and are thinking about putting an offer in.. here's the thing though:
Asking price is 174k, but it looks like it was sold for 180k back in 2007 (summer - height of the market). The market has since dropped by at least 15%, so 174k looks a bit steep. But in comparison to what other stuff nearby is on the market for it looks like good value.
So where should i start with an offer? If i go close to the asking i reckon i might be paying over the odds given the state of the market. But i'm worried if i don't someone might get it with a higher offer before we have another chance...
Can anyone with some experience of buying a house advise? Or is it just a bit of a lottery? (Damn expensive lottery!)
Asking price is 174k, but it looks like it was sold for 180k back in 2007 (summer - height of the market). The market has since dropped by at least 15%, so 174k looks a bit steep. But in comparison to what other stuff nearby is on the market for it looks like good value.
So where should i start with an offer? If i go close to the asking i reckon i might be paying over the odds given the state of the market. But i'm worried if i don't someone might get it with a higher offer before we have another chance...
Can anyone with some experience of buying a house advise? Or is it just a bit of a lottery? (Damn expensive lottery!)
I think most people start by offering about 10% under the asking price. Making an offer marks you as a serious buyer, so it's in the estate agent's interest to let you know if someone else makes a higher offer (they'd love to start a bidding war).
It's not really a lottery. You decide what you're prepared to pay and start negotiating.
It's not really a lottery. You decide what you're prepared to pay and start negotiating.
In reply to minimike:
I have never had to do this myself but when my parents bought there current house they put in an offer, someone then put in a higher offer and my parents where contacted to see if they want to make a counter offer. It went back and forth a few times until my parents bought the house. So it could be that they contact you to see if you want to make a higher offer, it is in the owners best interest after all to get the highest value.
I have never had to do this myself but when my parents bought there current house they put in an offer, someone then put in a higher offer and my parents where contacted to see if they want to make a counter offer. It went back and forth a few times until my parents bought the house. So it could be that they contact you to see if you want to make a higher offer, it is in the owners best interest after all to get the highest value.
In reply to minimike: you know what you can afford and you know if you want it. Rememeber its about buying a home not getting a bargain
In reply to Fawksey:
True, but its also about not getting ripped off! I might need/want to sell it again in the future...
True, but its also about not getting ripped off! I might need/want to sell it again in the future...
In reply to minimike:
They dropped 15% but recovered sharply and more slowly recently. In some parts, prices are back at 2007 levels or close to it.
They might also have done work to the house?
Additionally, my house on the land registry says it was sold in 2008, it wasn't. It was sold in 2007 but there was a cock up in the registration. Don't trust the internet to tell the truth.
Bottom line, pay what you think it's worth that way you're happy.
They dropped 15% but recovered sharply and more slowly recently. In some parts, prices are back at 2007 levels or close to it.
They might also have done work to the house?
Additionally, my house on the land registry says it was sold in 2008, it wasn't. It was sold in 2007 but there was a cock up in the registration. Don't trust the internet to tell the truth.
Bottom line, pay what you think it's worth that way you're happy.
In reply to NickD:
10% under?! At the moment, asking prices are ridiculous. If you're serious about buying this house, get it valued and you'll probably find that it is worth 75-80% of what they're asking for it.
Don't forget all the other houses for sale in the area have inflated prices on them too. Asking prices are being forced up by estate agent knobs, but selling prices are a bit more realistic.
It's a buyer's market so don't come across too keen.
10% under?! At the moment, asking prices are ridiculous. If you're serious about buying this house, get it valued and you'll probably find that it is worth 75-80% of what they're asking for it.
Don't forget all the other houses for sale in the area have inflated prices on them too. Asking prices are being forced up by estate agent knobs, but selling prices are a bit more realistic.
It's a buyer's market so don't come across too keen.
In reply to minimike: sorry I thought you were nesting not speculating
In reply to minimike:
Offer £160. You are a FTB so you are gold dust to them, Nothing ventured nothing gained, they can only say no. If they say no, ask what the lowest they will take is? Then give them a couple of days to sweat and offer 2 or 3 grand under their lowest figure. If they still dig in suggest splitting the difference.
Offer £160. You are a FTB so you are gold dust to them, Nothing ventured nothing gained, they can only say no. If they say no, ask what the lowest they will take is? Then give them a couple of days to sweat and offer 2 or 3 grand under their lowest figure. If they still dig in suggest splitting the difference.
In reply to minimike: I think it varies in different parts of the country here in the lake district prices have never really dropped and are still rising.Our first house we got 3 grand under the asking price when we came to sell 3 years later the buyer paid the asking price .We are soon to make a offer on a house ourselfs and will probably make a offer 5 grand above the asking price.
i have been a home owner for 7 years now and as long as you never over stretch your self and ride out the bad times you will nearly always be on a winner with your bricks and mortor.
Just make a offer what you can afford and what you think its worth.I hope some of this helps.
i have been a home owner for 7 years now and as long as you never over stretch your self and ride out the bad times you will nearly always be on a winner with your bricks and mortor.
Just make a offer what you can afford and what you think its worth.I hope some of this helps.
In reply to Fawksey:
Sadly i don't think many people buy a house these days without speculating
> (In reply to minimike) sorry I thought you were nesting not speculating
Sadly i don't think many people buy a house these days without speculating
In reply to minimike:
are you ready to go?
do they have an onward move?
go low if both these are a yes and push the estate agent for a figure because they want the sale...good luck.
are you ready to go?
do they have an onward move?
go low if both these are a yes and push the estate agent for a figure because they want the sale...good luck.
In reply to Mokkel: I sold the first house I bought because I got divorced. Im still living in the second house I bought twenty years later.
In reply to minimike:
Largely depends on circumstances of both you and the seller what you can get away with. Essentially the more screwed they are and the more flexible you are the lower it goes.
Best case scenario - you're a cash buyer, they've already bought their next house and are currently paying out for a bridging loan at stupid interest rates, and their house is a wreck and no-one else will look at it.
Under that situation I'd initially offer 30% under asking.
Given you're FTB with no chain you're in a pretty good situation. Only you will know their situation.
Bear in mind people (the seller and the estate agent) will *expect* your first offer to be both low and a lot less than you can actually afford - so make sure it is. They will also, for the same reason, expect you to expect the first offer to be rejected.
I wouldn't go more than 90% of the asking in any case for a first offer. In this case as you are FTB I'd lower that to 85%.
[quick maths] I'd probably start at 145k or 150k. Obviously this will be rejected (well, you never know!) and I'd then go to 155k and ask for a counter-offer.
Say you then get 165k as counter and you then offer to split the difference and get it for 160k.
FWIW, on our house we went in with an extremely cheeky 20% discount from asking and the sellers said "yes", as they were in bridging land and the house was knackered.
Largely depends on circumstances of both you and the seller what you can get away with. Essentially the more screwed they are and the more flexible you are the lower it goes.
Best case scenario - you're a cash buyer, they've already bought their next house and are currently paying out for a bridging loan at stupid interest rates, and their house is a wreck and no-one else will look at it.
Under that situation I'd initially offer 30% under asking.
Given you're FTB with no chain you're in a pretty good situation. Only you will know their situation.
Bear in mind people (the seller and the estate agent) will *expect* your first offer to be both low and a lot less than you can actually afford - so make sure it is. They will also, for the same reason, expect you to expect the first offer to be rejected.
I wouldn't go more than 90% of the asking in any case for a first offer. In this case as you are FTB I'd lower that to 85%.
[quick maths] I'd probably start at 145k or 150k. Obviously this will be rejected (well, you never know!) and I'd then go to 155k and ask for a counter-offer.
Say you then get 165k as counter and you then offer to split the difference and get it for 160k.
FWIW, on our house we went in with an extremely cheeky 20% discount from asking and the sellers said "yes", as they were in bridging land and the house was knackered.
In reply to John_Hat:
Also, recent history, a mate wanted a house priced at 125k. She was going to offer 117.5 as first offer thinking it a bit cheeky.
I persuaded her to offer 105k, their counter was 120, she went up to 108, they came down to 118 and she ended up buying it for 113.5k.
She was also a first time buyer. Inital offer was therefore 84% of asking.
Also, recent history, a mate wanted a house priced at 125k. She was going to offer 117.5 as first offer thinking it a bit cheeky.
I persuaded her to offer 105k, their counter was 120, she went up to 108, they came down to 118 and she ended up buying it for 113.5k.
She was also a first time buyer. Inital offer was therefore 84% of asking.
In reply to John_Hat:
Hello John,
if you stick the postcode into this site's sytem:
http://www.ourproperty.co.uk/
it will tell you the number of recent sales and the average sale price (Based on land registry figures as apposed to estate agent / asking price figures!)
This will give you a good base from which to decide your offer (I would go for 20% below asking price - you have nothing to lose)
Good luck and let us know how you get on!
Hello John,
if you stick the postcode into this site's sytem:
http://www.ourproperty.co.uk/
it will tell you the number of recent sales and the average sale price (Based on land registry figures as apposed to estate agent / asking price figures!)
This will give you a good base from which to decide your offer (I would go for 20% below asking price - you have nothing to lose)
Good luck and let us know how you get on!
In reply to minimike:
Thing is, it's worth what the final buyer offers that the seller accepts. I know this isn't really useful, but I am not sure offering 10-20% below asking price is going to get you taken seriously. Depends on
1) how long it's been on the market
2) how desperate they are to sell
3) whether they have a house they are keen to move to
Can you find out anything about the seller eg the reason for the sale?
Thing is, it's worth what the final buyer offers that the seller accepts. I know this isn't really useful, but I am not sure offering 10-20% below asking price is going to get you taken seriously. Depends on
1) how long it's been on the market
2) how desperate they are to sell
3) whether they have a house they are keen to move to
Can you find out anything about the seller eg the reason for the sale?
In reply to minimike:
Mr Hat has some sound advice. Ultimately it all depends on what the house is worth to you, and to the sellers. There are so many variables, maybe they're desperate to sell, or maybe it's the house you really want and everything else on sale just doesn't tick the boxes, at which point it's worth paying what appears to be over the odds.
Also bear in mind you're buying someone's house, and people will have a lot invested in it. Don't go in over agressive or start messing people about. We sold our last house at the bottom of the market, and the potential buyer was a real throbber who thought he was the worlds greatest property speculator. We actually agreed a sale at a reasonable(ish price) at which point he started dropping the price prior to signing. We refused to drop, he eventually said he'd buy for the agreed price, but he was such a pillock we told him we wouldn't sell at any price to him. We actually sold for a lower price to a much nicer buyer. That doesn't make economic sense, but it certainly felt a lot better than if we'd sold to the first buyer.
Mr Hat has some sound advice. Ultimately it all depends on what the house is worth to you, and to the sellers. There are so many variables, maybe they're desperate to sell, or maybe it's the house you really want and everything else on sale just doesn't tick the boxes, at which point it's worth paying what appears to be over the odds.
Also bear in mind you're buying someone's house, and people will have a lot invested in it. Don't go in over agressive or start messing people about. We sold our last house at the bottom of the market, and the potential buyer was a real throbber who thought he was the worlds greatest property speculator. We actually agreed a sale at a reasonable(ish price) at which point he started dropping the price prior to signing. We refused to drop, he eventually said he'd buy for the agreed price, but he was such a pillock we told him we wouldn't sell at any price to him. We actually sold for a lower price to a much nicer buyer. That doesn't make economic sense, but it certainly felt a lot better than if we'd sold to the first buyer.
Oh,
4) whether they've had any other interest or not
4) whether they've had any other interest or not
In reply to Ridge:
Brilliant. I would do the same, tbh, or make him pay £10k more if he's desperate. That's the problem with the housing market - too many people have no sense of morals when it comes to it. Gazumping... gazundering... all realities. And the behaviour of _scumbags_. It's funny when everyone blames those greedy bankers. Greed is everywhere.
> We actually sold for a lower price to a much nicer buyer. That doesn't make economic sense, but it certainly felt a lot better than if we'd sold to the first buyer.
Brilliant. I would do the same, tbh, or make him pay £10k more if he's desperate. That's the problem with the housing market - too many people have no sense of morals when it comes to it. Gazumping... gazundering... all realities. And the behaviour of _scumbags_. It's funny when everyone blames those greedy bankers. Greed is everywhere.
In reply to darren-surrey:
There is really nothing at all greedy about putting a lower offer in to buy a house. The seller is perfectly at liberty to simply say 'no' or poke off, or words to that effect. The fact is, the only way of really finding out how much somebody wants to sell, and at what price, is to put in an offer (which could potentially be 20% lower than the asking price) and then see what happens. If you are a first time buyer and can complete within a few weeks the seller may sell. This is not an example of greed, or exploitation, or maleducation, it is simply an example of free market economics.
If the seller rejects the offer, you can then make higher offers and within a few days be up to the original asking price (should you decide that this is warranted).
The example of the guy agreeing a price and then offering a lower amount afterwards is a completely different situation. He was a complete *rse because he did not stick to his word and caused a waste of time, effort and energy. That is incorrect behaviour and he deserved not to get the house.
There is really nothing at all greedy about putting a lower offer in to buy a house. The seller is perfectly at liberty to simply say 'no' or poke off, or words to that effect. The fact is, the only way of really finding out how much somebody wants to sell, and at what price, is to put in an offer (which could potentially be 20% lower than the asking price) and then see what happens. If you are a first time buyer and can complete within a few weeks the seller may sell. This is not an example of greed, or exploitation, or maleducation, it is simply an example of free market economics.
If the seller rejects the offer, you can then make higher offers and within a few days be up to the original asking price (should you decide that this is warranted).
The example of the guy agreeing a price and then offering a lower amount afterwards is a completely different situation. He was a complete *rse because he did not stick to his word and caused a waste of time, effort and energy. That is incorrect behaviour and he deserved not to get the house.
In reply to Ridge:
I did the same when selling my house in Leeds. I sold to a couple who really really wanted the house and fell in love with it, and raided every piggy bank they had to scrape to 12.5k of the asking price (162.5 against 175 asking).
I'd had a previous offer from someone at 165k who was frankly rude. I rejected them and took the lower offer.
I felt a lot happier taking the lower offer and selling to someone who would treasure the house as much as I did.
> (In reply to minimike)
>
>
> We actually sold for a lower price to a much nicer buyer. That doesn't make economic sense, but it certainly felt a lot better than if we'd sold to the first buyer.
>
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> We actually sold for a lower price to a much nicer buyer. That doesn't make economic sense, but it certainly felt a lot better than if we'd sold to the first buyer.
I did the same when selling my house in Leeds. I sold to a couple who really really wanted the house and fell in love with it, and raided every piggy bank they had to scrape to 12.5k of the asking price (162.5 against 175 asking).
I'd had a previous offer from someone at 165k who was frankly rude. I rejected them and took the lower offer.
I felt a lot happier taking the lower offer and selling to someone who would treasure the house as much as I did.
In reply to John_Hat: In Scotland, rather than England, but when I bought my house the sellers accepted my offer rather than another which was slightly higher as I was going to live in it but the others wanted the house as a second home
In reply to minimike: reading this thread makes me realise how easy I had it.
We looked at loads of houses but the wife liked the first one so naturally that is the one that we got.
It was up at 140 (may 2009) but that was a bit too much of a stretch for me so I made a offer at 130. I did not do this through the estate agent though as seems the way these days, I made the offer sitting at his table with a cup of coffee. I also asked him to think about it and let me know.
He phoned later that night to say that he could not afford to build the granny flat on their daughters house for 130. I asked how much the build would cost and he said 132.
I went round and shook his hand and moved in 6 weeks later.
On the day we moved in work started on the granny flat next door. ( their daughter owned the other half of our semi) ( yes we knew that before making the offer)
We looked at loads of houses but the wife liked the first one so naturally that is the one that we got.
It was up at 140 (may 2009) but that was a bit too much of a stretch for me so I made a offer at 130. I did not do this through the estate agent though as seems the way these days, I made the offer sitting at his table with a cup of coffee. I also asked him to think about it and let me know.
He phoned later that night to say that he could not afford to build the granny flat on their daughters house for 130. I asked how much the build would cost and he said 132.
I went round and shook his hand and moved in 6 weeks later.
On the day we moved in work started on the granny flat next door. ( their daughter owned the other half of our semi) ( yes we knew that before making the offer)
In reply to minimike:
Zoopla is a good place to start.
It really is a postcode lottery, where I live house prices are (and have been) increasing this year, with a neighbour selling for 40k more than they paid 2 years ago (just before the slump). But that's in Scotland so maybe not much help.
You say it looks like good value? Maybe it is, and the owner wants a quick sale. Doesn't mean they'll accept a low offer though.
Zoopla is a good place to start.
It really is a postcode lottery, where I live house prices are (and have been) increasing this year, with a neighbour selling for 40k more than they paid 2 years ago (just before the slump). But that's in Scotland so maybe not much help.
You say it looks like good value? Maybe it is, and the owner wants a quick sale. Doesn't mean they'll accept a low offer though.
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