UKC

What do you think of National Vocational Qualifications (NVQ’s). I work with them and would be interested to know what people think of them. Do you know what they are? Have you completed one and found it a good experience, waste of time or didn’t have a clue what was going on. Would appreciate your honest opinions.

In reply to Flibble:
Don't really have an opinion, but have heared the joke about them - 'What does N.V.Q. stand for?'

In reply to Fishtrumpet:

Not very qualified.

In reply to Flibble: I have a Scotvec level 2 in French which I was given (no exam) after a winter of evening classes which I took mostly to be able to keep up the language - the standard appeared very low, more or less being just about able to order a coffee or beer, much lower than the GCE I took many years earlier

But maybe NVQs are not the same ?

In reply to Flibble: I did NVQ's while at Damar College a while ago, level 2 & 3 in Business Administration.... It helped when geing jobs in secretarial positions over the years and now am a PA for an FD, doing all the accounts for the Uk and audits for the company, so for me it helped....

I must admit though, some of what was taught was very mundane, but on the whole a worth while qualification to have, just because it is recognised.... Hope this helps

In reply to Flibble:
The joke probably highlights the negative attitude many people have about vocational qualifications Vs academic (At certain levels). This prejudice is obvious in the way that people are educated in this country - and the way that the Tomlinson Report seems to have been ignored (Not a lot seems to have changed).

In reply to Flibble:

i did a GNVQ (The built environment) in stead of A levels and i found the course to be good. i use some of what i learnt to this day. Though i would say that there needs to be more of a focus on the level of maths a physis.

going back i would have done alevel physis and maths as well.

In reply to ashleylist:
I was talking to someone recently and they were telling me a Uni had made the maths unit optional for an Engineering Degree???

In reply to Flibble: My wife's done a few in the care environment, they are very specific to the setting which is good, a good motivator for, usually, low paid staff, ensure that they actually know what they are doing in their environment. However I don't think they would improve your career prospects until you start getting to levels 4 and 5. My missus completed a level 4 in management and got a job as a care Manager off the back of this, she then used them as a springboard to get onto a degree course in Dementia care and is now the manager of a Nursing home, she has more than doubled her pay in less than 2 years and earns high 30's now. So definately worthwhile for her.

In reply to Flibble:

Looking at the NVQ for electricians I thought that level 2 would get you to the standard to do work so long as you were supervised, level 3 would get you near the Approved Grade, the most common one, grade 4 would have you at technician grade.

Not looked recently to see if it has altered much, but it was a better course for practical people to take, instead of the technical one if you were going for a degree in electrical engineering.

In reply to Flibble:

WTF, what uni is this?

In reply to Flibble: do pretty much what they say on the tin - a vocational qualification. my only reservation is there used to be a fad for creating low level nvqs in traditionally well qualified disciplines. I don't think they were particularly valued in the industry. (I'm thinking of nature conservation 10 vyears ago. things may have changed now) They were an entry level for people on various employment schemes which needed a "training" element for what was essentially cheap labour. Dont think this held true in othere sectors like care or catering

In reply to sutty:
Depends on the eletrical discipline. Guys doing installation work in construction have to do Level 2 & 3 and a trade test!! Seems to defeat the reason for NVQ's. But it earns the awarding body loads of money!!

In reply to Flibble:
Thanks for input seems most people who have done an NVQ found it worthwhile.

In reply to Flibble:

They're great!




For the morons that couldn't get into UNI.

In reply to ultra montane:
Without the people who didn't go to Uni you wouldn't have your car, climbing gear, ect.ect!!!

In reply to Flibble:

My Big Mac, my windows cleaned, gutters sweeped....

In reply to ultra montane:
Glad to see your starting to appreciate others

In reply to Flibble: . Speaking as someone who employs others - I don’t rate them and disregard them on application forms. Anyone intending to spend time on a L4 or L5 is wasting their time, no way is a L4 equivalent to a degree or L5 a Masters, as something to encourage others further down the food chain without formal qualifications they serve some limited purpose – as outlined in a few cases above. Although in the past similar motivated individuals would have gone of to night class and progressed.

But then again I’m one of these old reactionaries who think that education went to pot when they did away with O’ levels and watered down A’s and started talking of sending 50% of the population to “University” rather than 7% - do we really think that the 43% who didn’t used to make the grade have just got smarter?

In reply to Flibble: Glorified YTS and/or ET related qualifications.

Something to do to keep you off the dole.

In reply to Flibble:

I got made to do an NVQ level 3 in business administration a few years ago as part of some funding scam (iirc). All it involved was gathering lots of bits of paper from things I was already doing as part of my job, and bunging them in a folder, and generating more pointless paperwork around them.

utterly utterly pointless.

In reply to Flibble:

GNVQ stands for - Going No-where Very Quickly

They are a complete waste of time and effort. You would be better with work experience or an apprenticeship

In reply to pat m:
I agree that our education system is suffering because of government targets. If schools and colleges do not get achievement then they do not get full funding, so things get watered down to achieve full funding.

NVQ's are about doing, and can be very good for people who are practical. Some people work there way up in firms over a number of years and become managers without any other formal qualification other than an apprenticeship. this is were an NVQ 4 could be used to show the person really knows thier job NVQ 4 and 5 should not be seen as equivelent to this and that.

In reply to jam46:
NVQ's are part of the Modern Apprenticeship Programme. Layed down by, Yes you've guessed it the government

In reply to jam46:

>They are a complete waste of time and effort. You would be better with work experience or an apprenticeship

There speaks the word of experience, 24 years old and still a student.

In reply to Flibble:

Depends. I've actually been forced into doing one, as you now cannot manage a waste treatment plant without one. Like CJD said, collect vast amounts of paper that you do already and bung it in a folder with a few notes.
Now I had to be forced at P45 point to do it, but if you approach it right, and have a decent assessor it can be a useful exercise, as you can identify weakness in company procedures and rectify them.
So in my case actually quite useful, but it is a level 4/5, rather than the basic stuff.

I do think they show a basic competance to do a job, which is a damn sight more than a degree does.

In reply to Ridge @ work:
They are greatly dependent on the Candidate and the Assessor.

In reply to Flibble:

At home now so here's some considered feedback.

Cons - Very turgid, badly worded units. It's not made clear exactly what the criteria are. The explanatory notes seem to be a randomly selected assortment of 'validate', 'evidence' 'competancies', and many of the units appear to be identical apart from the odd word moved around. Hence the need for an assessor to translate.
The ability of the assessor is therefore crucial. The first assessor produced a 'storyboard' and said that this was the format to be used:

"On Monday I got up and brushed my teeth and went to work. When I got to work I clocked in (Evidence 1). When I am at work I sit at my desk (Evidence 2). My workstation has been DSE assessed by me (Evidence 3)etc, etc ad childish nauseum.
At which point anyone with a glimmer of an IQ loses the will to live and walks out. Interestingly the first person who bothered to gain the NVQ was the person you'd under no circumstances trust to do anything....

Once you understand what the assessor and validator actually want from you, then it's much simpler. A lot does depend on the attitude of the candidate. It's perfectly possible for someone with no real grasp of the subject to amass a plethora of photocopied documents and pass. Conversely, if you sit down and try and wrestle it into some sort of logical format and get an overview, you can unearth flaws in your current systems, as well as work out a more user-friendly training plan for new employees.

As regards value to employers - debateable. In the waste industry you now need one regardless of your educational achievements to be licensed to operate a site.

If someone turned up with a level 1 NVQ in English then I wouldn't exactly be impressed. However, like an earlier poster, I grew up in the "Only 7% of the population are graduates" era. Therefore I'm also not going to employ some semi-literate 'graduate' either.

All depends on the person.

In reply to Flibble; "NVQ 4 and 5 should not be seen as equivelent to this and that."

Really - perhaps you should check this

http://www.edexcel.org.uk/quals/nqf-grid/

In reply to sutty:

Nah, the word of ignorance. NVQs are done as part of an Apprenticeship or to demonstrate work experience for those with over 5 years work experience. You can't get an NVQ without being an apprentice or having work experience.

It has helped for people not to be used as cheap labour. The companies must train them, or they loose their apprentice. In some sectors NVQs are the qualification. Apprenticeships were 7 years though, and are now 2 or 3, so people are qualified with less learning. I think NVQs are the start of training really.

People do like getting qualified, when they have lots of experience and no quals. They can be assessed at work and get an NVQ. To a graduate, I agree NVQs can seem pointless, as it is a lower level. The NVQs I did, I thought were a bit pointless, but the newer quals I have will help me get other jobs.

The idea that everyone should aim for Uni, has just created lots of easier degrees. Lots of people are happier and better suited to jobs that don't need a degree.


To the OP: Mail me if you want to chat about this more.

In reply to sutty: A PHD at BT once remarked that an NVQ shows competence if done properly, my qualifications shows that on the exam day I got the right questions and answered them well enough to pass.
The paper collected has to be from your experience not someone elses preferably in your handwriting.

In reply to Flibble:

Level 2 in IT. Absolute pants. I thought when my boss asked me to do I might actually learn something but there was no tutoring and it was cobbled together from things I already knew.

In reply to ultra montane

you're the only moron and it is clear you know nothing about people or life.