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I recently visited South Tyrol for the first time. A sticker reading "Südtirol ist nacht Italienne" drew my attention to some fascinating politics. It reminded me of a former colleague from Barcelona who was a Catalonian separatist, I've heard they have good climbing nearby too. My brother-in-law's Dad is from Cornwall and advocates for a wall on the Devon border, good crags down there, right?
This gave me a fun idea for an international "ALL SEPARATIST CRAG TICK LIST"
eg. Good climbing destinations inside regions with strong support for independence. Ideally British trad grade Sev - VS or sport French grade 5b - 6b to suit my current comfort zone.
Any suggestions? The more obscure the better. Bonus points if I have to learn the local dialect for "2 beers please".
Post edited at 15:32
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In reply to Martin Southville:
Well there's a half-hearted devolution party in the Franken. Nobody only drinks two beers there so they wouldn't understand anyway!
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In reply to Martin Southville:
err scotland ?
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In reply to Martin Southville:
I think the list is growing, but you've got all of Scotland and increasingly Wales to add to the list, even before you hit the continent...
This could be a good start:
Sassenach (E1 5b)
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In reply to Martin Southville:
I'd heard that Mexico offered to pay for Trump's wall if Canada agreed to pay for the roof....
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In reply to C Witter:
Good point! If there's an entire administrative area within a country such as Wales and Scotland then I think I'd want to narrow it down to the crags in the most hard-core supporting area? Which part of Scotland and Wales do you think I will find the best fanatics?
In reply to jimtitt:
LOL. I love the idea of a half-hearted devolution party. The passion of a small group of relentless idealists appeals to me. But where is Franken? A quick search brought up this wikipedia page: Franconia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franconia is that where you mean?
In reply to C Witter:
Ah! Sassenach reminds me of a route at a crag I was climbing at a few weeks back called Shoneen Games (VS 4c) The route names around there led me down a 3 hour hole researching Ulysses. Maybe pejorative terms for the English is a sister tick list!
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In reply to Martin Southville:
Biggest Scottish fanatic appears to be in Edinburgh.
7
2
In reply to Martin Southville:
Yup, where the Frankenjura is
In reply to Martin Southville:
Plenty of possibilities:
Gibraltar?
Basque?
Kashmir?
Rockall?
I did do a fair bit of climbing in Kosovo but that's no longer separatist so much as separated; however, that wasn't the case at the time.
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In reply to john arran:
Good knowledge! I'd never heard of Rockall before. Enjoying Googling these places
In reply to Martin Southville:
Did not know that nationalist movements needed extra help from the climbing comunity.
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In reply to Martin Southville:
A couple on the list for Carreg y Saeth in the Rhinogydd.
And just for a spot of further reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armes_Prydein
Post edited at 19:29
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In reply to Martin Southville:
Loads in Scotland, like https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/beinn_dearg_ross+cromarty-296/feni...
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In reply to Martin Southville:
Yes that's the place (my home) and this
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A4nkischer_Bund
is the half arsed independence party.
CB
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In reply to Martin Southville:
> Good knowledge! I'd never heard of Rockall before. Enjoying Googling these places
Have you never listened to the shipping forecast?
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In reply to GrahamD:
> Biggest Scottish fanatic appears to be in Edinburgh.
An added bonus of climbing in Edinburgh is that the holds want to separate from the crag too...
Plenty of climbs in Cornwall to add to the list
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In reply to Martin Bennett:
> Have you never listened to the shipping forecast?
I think my mate had their first album on vinyl
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In reply to Martin Southville:
> I think my mate had their first album on vinyl
Excellent riposte.
Post edited at 18:05
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In reply to Martin Southville:
If you want to get some grit in then Saddleworth have a bunch of Lancashire separatists / Yorkshire Unionists. Most of the terrorist activity appears to be focused on getting postal addresses in Saddleworth to state 'West Riding of Yorkshire' and painting red roses on signs white.
whiterose.saddleworth.net
Post edited at 19:04
In reply to Martin Southville:
I think Sassenach properly means lowland Scots, no?
There is a Yorkshire Independence Party - lots to go at there.
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In reply to Martin Southville:
Might not exactly tick your list as it's not strictly "separatist", more like "freedom", but could be interesting for some "climbing and politics" history buffs:
1) There was a "Свобода" (Freedom) graffiti, supposedly from 1899 Tsarist Russia, on one of the many beautiful Syenite rock towers near Krasnoyarsk, Siberia. Made by some Bolshevik Stolbists (a local subculture that developed from meeting around the rocks and free soloing there, later even en masse, still supposedly going strong). The story goes that when the Tsarist police investigated it, one of the other Stolbists took the policemen 40m up "helping the authorities", then promptly disappeared. The helpless "pigs" were left stranded up there in the autumn weather for over a day until some hunters rescued them
https://www.memorial.krsk.ru/Articles/KP/2/071.htm (in Russian, use google translate)
The graffiti had been renewed by the Stolbists every time authorities managed to clear it. Unfortunately, I guess it took on a rather darker meaning when Krasnoyarsk became main centre of the Gulag system during Stalinist times. I wouldn't be much surprised if the original Bolshevik authors ended up in the Krasnolag themselves.
2) In 1969 Czechoslovakia, on the exact anniversary of the 1968 Soviet occupation, two Czech climbers wrote a 5m wide protest graffiti "21 Srpen FUJ" (August 21st YUCK) on a 50m tall sandstone tower in Adrspach sandstone area (Elbsandstein style, so you'd better be comfortable with kinderkopfs, knotted slings and big runouts!). Communist police even caught them later, but couldn't make it stick. The (again) helpless pigs had to threaten some poor student climbers with expulsion from uni to go and clean it.
Post edited at 19:34
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In reply to Martin Southville:
Surely anything in the UK could count these days.
1
In reply to Frank R.:
Some great stories from living history, thanks for sharing. I love where this post has gone. I'm geeking out on this stuff.
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In reply to GrahamD:
Yeah fair point. I guess we are the global poster boy for this stuff. However the B-word has grown somewhat tiresome.
But rules is rules and I did say that if it's a large area then I have to choose a crag near the area with highest support.... I've Googled it and the question now is what's the best crag near Boston? Is Greetwell Quarry worth the 5 hour drive from Bristol or is there some better climbing in the rest of the top 5: South Holland District, Castle Point, Thurrock or Great Yarmouth?
In reply to Martin Southville:
Yes, sometimes the "fringes" of climbing history can be quite fascinating (no disrespect meant, it's just that it's not so much known outside of their respective communities)!
I found a nice interview online in one online magazine with a contemporary climber about the 1969 Czechoslovakian graffiti (not one of it's authors, although he did undertake a symbolic hunger strike on top of the very tower just after the occupation in 1968, so he might have possibly been some inspiration for them). Unfortunately machine translation doesn't bode well with colloquial Czech, especially if there is any local climbing terminology involved. Even though the e-Montana mag has some interesting articles on Czech sandstone climbing translated into English, this one is not one of them:
https://bit.ly/3jGwEV8 (again, just a machine translation)
At least there are some photos of the tower with the 1969 graffiti and climbing by the 80 years old guy on his rather core-shot rope for the article that don't need any translation but bring a shudder
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In reply to Removed User:
No news letter since 2014. Sounds like they need a shot in the arm. Maybe a few slogans daubed ont Wimberry boulders will do the trick.
In reply to Martin Southville:
> what's the best crag near Boston?
I was going to suggest New England - bit of a hoohah over some tea, etc - but assumed you were looking for more current situations.
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In reply to Ian Parsons:
> I was going to suggest New England - bit of a hoohah over some tea, etc - but assumed you were looking for more current situations.
Well this started as an excuse for UK road trips and European flights but looking at this top-10 list (https://www.osprey.com/stories/10-classic-crags-in-the-northeast/) maybe that Boston needs to go in as the historical entry! Possibly a stop en route to Quebec? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_sovereignty_movement)
Post edited at 22:28
In reply to Martin Southville:
Yes; I'm all for an obscure excuse to visit somewhere you probably wanted to go anyway!
I note that none of the crags within the Boston area actually make the list - Crow Hill, of international renown, being the nearest; the only actual local crag that I can vouch for is Quincy Quarry[ies] - although if 'vouch for' means 'recommend' then I probably need to backtrack a bit! The Gunks consists of a series of crags - four, I think - along an escarpment; a sort of New York State equivalent of the Eastern Gritstone Edges. Indeed a couple of them might be as long as Stanage - but mostly about 200ft high. It seems odd, therefore - albeit maybe in tune with modern preference - that the cliff's depicting image is what appears to be a 15ft boulder problem!
Your 'colonial expedition' into Canada prompted a thought. One of the best routes I've ever done lies within one of that country's 'indigenous areas' - inverted commas are clumsy, but I don't really know how else to phrase it - so I googled 'Inuit independence'. What came up was a bunch of stuff on Greenlandic independence - from Denmark, obviously; so, back to Europe. But the Arctic fjords are beckoning!
Edited to remove a persistent punctuation mark.
Post edited at 23:51
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In reply to Martin Southville:
I think you can safely rule out rock climbing near great Yarmouth !
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In reply to captain paranoia:
> > Südtirol ist nacht Italienne
> South Tyrol is Italian night...?
Haha! OK, yes I spelled that word wrong. Well spotted
Here's a link to a photo of the stickers: https://www.wienerzeitung.at/_em_daten/_cache/image/1xxG-LBcJaLAh6YixOpjw20...
Post edited at 09:37
In reply to Martin Southville:
I've seen graffiti around Chamonix calling for "Savoie Libre" - So that would mean you've got the whole of the Mont Blanc area covered.
In reply to Martin Southville:
Raven's Tor . Millers dale already has Devolution . mind you on a bad day the population is that of a small town . And what a strange place that town would be
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In reply to captain paranoia:
> "Tyrol patriots aren't Nazi idiots"
> Hmmm...
Blimey! I didn't spot that slogan in the photo when I looked up that link. It's always good when a group feel it necessary to make that distinction.
Post edited at 18:30
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In reply to Gazmataz:
> I've seen graffiti around Chamonix calling for "Savoie Libre" -
I saw one that certainly said 'Savon Libre'. I guessed it might be a piss take...
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