UKC

You don't realise how steep this place is until you get halfway up the route do you? Anyway, went last night to do the Rasp, had to rest on it which was a real disappointment (maybe shouldn't have gone to the wall the night before) as this is undoubtedly the best route I've done on grit, but the route was all there and probably fairly graded. The real shock however came seconding the File. Painful hand jamming, no other hand or foot holds. VS 4c my arse, is this the biggest sand bag still around?

Did Joe Brown do the Rasp with no aid on the FA?

In reply to Tyler:

Sling to rest, I believe. But if you'd had to hang on and thread a sling through the break about halfway up I expect you'd need a rest too. And of course that was the only gear back then.

Thinking about it, it probably wasn't the biggest lead on grit at the time for nothing......

As to the File, you're not really a gritstoner, are you? Definitive gritstone VS 4c. Fancy teaming up to attempt The Vice some day?

(Mind you, I could put you in touch with an American girl who was used to climbing 5.11 back in Texas, but found The File in the snow rather difficult. I think she'd probably agree with you, and so would a Rumanian I know who considered it a fair bit harder than the average Cheddar E5).

In reply to Tyler:

Sorry Tyler but the File is Pretty standard VS, perhaps high in the grade but certainly not HVS.

51 votes - http://www.rockfax.com/databases/results_route.html?id=1111

Agree with you about the impressivenes of Joe Brown's ascent of The Rasp, although he did use a resting sling, and it is uncertain whether it was he or Whillans who actually climbed it first, which tends to point to a bit of a seige job. But, for the time, it is an awesome route.

In reply to Tyler:


Fair VS 4c grit jamming crack. Love it. But you need to be able to jam, sure. My gf cruised up it as one of her first seconded VSs.

In reply to Tyler:

I remember doing the File approx 20 years ago and finding it desperate for VS - I don't know how long the scars took to heal.

But then did it again about 2 years later easily and no scars - learning to jam grit properly is a useful skill.

Seem to remember a similar experience with Valkyrie 1st pitch.

Agreed that the Rasp is hard work, but as yo say, it's all there.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


No I don't want to do the Vice. What with Winking Crack at the weekend and the File last night I've given up on "classic" cracks! You're right I'm definitly not a Gritstoner.

In reply to Alan James, ROCKFAX:

Things like jamming make a mockery of the whole grading system! At least now with the File I have a grit route which would appear in my all time top 50.

My respect for Joe Brown and his ilk continues to grow each week.

In reply to Tyler:

Ooh The File .. my favourite.

Why you find it difficult?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


Stop sandbagging people on the Vice! I still wake up at night in a cold sweat!

J

In reply to Ropeboy:

He does that because secretly he knows it is still a sandbag, even at E1!

In reply to Alan James, ROCKFAX:

It's not a sandbag, it's a challenge.

What grade do we reckon The File would be if you weren't allowed to jam AT ALL. I will start the bidding at E4 6b. Assuming you're allowed to jam gear in the crack but not hands or feet.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Then you could have:

Using only the left side of the crack.
Using only the right side.

Turning things on their head somewhat. What grade would Right Unconquerable be if you had to jam/offwidth it instead of laybacking? 5.10c is my initial offer.

In reply to darkinbad:


HVS 5a

In reply to Mike Whittaker:

Surely the roof at half height would be a bit tricky.

In reply to darkinbad:

Have to admit my memory is not up to this discussion.

In reply to darkinbad:

Hasn't Insanity at Curbar been used for finger jamming practice, rather than laybacking, by Yosemite aspirants?

In reply to Tyler:

It has. Easier that way IMHO. Although they do say the Rock and Ice were failing like that before Hugh B stepped up and laybacked it.

RHU sans laybacking - 5.10c sounds about right.

I must say the idea of The File sans jamming is growing on me. I may even give it a try.

In reply to darkinbad:

I'll go with 5.10 something as well for The Right; but I'm not sure about this offwidth business; I would thought fist jamming would be as bad as it gets!

With Insanity, the job is more thin hand jamming and finger stacking (if that is the right phrase). If the 1.5 Friend placements are right, just compare your hands with one of those if you're fancying it.

I've relayed this story before I'm sure, but I once saw a lad nearly manage to layback the direct start to The Rasp, now that was impressive.

As for The File, aren't the rounded breaks good enough for a lanky fellow like you to just slowly drape your way up it John, at about HVS?

In reply to John Gillott:

On a similar note, I saw some bloke climb Sauls Crack without using a single hand-jam. Laying off to the left and crimping on nothings.

My own experience of Higgar Tor is being dramatically reminded how steep it is when I fell off the Rasp and watched in amazement as the crag receded horizontally from me at great speed.

In reply to John Gillott:

>As for The File, aren't the rounded breaks good enough for a lanky fellow like you to just slowly drape your way up it John, at about HVS?

Dunno. I seem to remember them being a little way apart. And if it were only HVS like that I don't think so many non-jammers would struggle quite so badly. Let's go and give it a go!

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

If you're not swallowed by The Black Cleft it's a date!

(I'll allow myself dynamic moves between the brakes seconding)

In reply to John Gillott:

Yes, that's right, I'll be leaping so fast I'll need to apply the brakes to catch the holds.

In reply to Tyler:

The file is VS 4c and has footholds most of the way. Unfortunately it only has three conventional handholds (the first break, the strange hold at the top of the dog leg and a hidden pocket) and requires good hand and fist jamming skills. I was so tired when I led it the last two conventional holds were useless to me but I could still jam... one of the reasons its worth learning the skill...it might stop a nasty fall.

If you think the File is hard next time go and try to solo Jupiters Crack HVD, Doddle VD, Walkover HVD and Piece of Cake VD (ha ha ha ha...)

In reply to John Gillott:

>(I'll allow myself dynamic moves between the brakes seconding)

seconding? Que??

In reply to Offwidth:

>If you think the File is hard next time go and try to solo

I don't have the impression there's going to be a next time!

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

"I don't have the impression there's going to be a next time!"

Thats what they all say, but quality like that is magnetic.

In reply to Offwidth:

You are a sick and twisted man and I believe you missed Zeus's crack from the higgar grim as phuq list.

The file is pretty straightforward if a little sustained, supremely enjoyable though.

In reply to Bob Dulieu:

I did'nt miss it, I was too traumatised to attempt the solo at the end of the day and hence left it for my next visit. Plus I cant afford to lose all my climbing partners. After getting my arm stuck in Jupiters and down climbing the crux to release it, Matt thought we should go home.

In reply to Tyler: The File is definitely VS 4C. My own ascent came the morning after an evening spent in the Moon with Joe Healey in the course of which I consumed 12 pints, and the crux was the mantleshelf at the top which required the ability to stand up in balance without falling over. One of the great things about jams is that no matter how hungover you are they are difficult to fall off.

In reply to Tyler:

The File (done numerous times) is a grade easier than the Mincer (done two days ago) which in turn is at least one or two grades easier than The Vice (humiliated on two years ago).

In reply to tobyfk:

How are the hands, The Mincer viscous piece of work.

In reply to Horse:

No damage incurred on that route. Presumably the 'mincer' section is supposed to be the wide crack near the top? I did strive to use precise crack technique there (am in training for granite in Finland) but have a vague memory of using a crimp inside the crack to take the load off a fist jam. A true wall rat would probably smear around that feature at about 6a/6b!

In reply to tobyfk:

My memories are that most claret was spilt getting into the crack from the right hand side.

In reply to Tyler:

in the peak boulder guide 2, theres a traverse of the leaning block, given b9 i think?, and the final comment is - easier than the rasp.

as for sandbag cracks, i had a guide which graded broken crack at froggatt vs 4b, so tried it as my second lead, and my first jamming test. Well f*ck me.
by the way in the latest guide it gets vs 5a.

In reply to Horse:

I must say I always think The Mincer is something of a misnomer. I always wonder in fact whether the common derivation of the name is actually correct, and it doesn’t in fact refer to some acquaintance of the FA with a curious way of walking. Several cracks in the vicinity – Matinee for one, or Masochism for another, - are more likely to draw blood in my experience – and, yes, The Vice is a good deal more likely to do so (in fact probably the top HVS blood-drawer in the Peak, although Masochism runs it close).

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Don't doubt any of that and certainly have never felt sufficiently unkind towards my hands as to introduce it to Matinee. But when I did those first couple of moves into the crack of the Mincer it did make a bit of a mess, maybe it was my inexperience in the art.

In reply to Horse:

You mean the undercutty ones going out rightwards? I agree that if you get minced anywhere it's going to be there. The upper crack is standard grit Severe.

In reply to Horse:

Don't you mean 'from the left side'? Didn't walk through any mirrors on your way to the crag did you?