UKC

Someone commented a while back in response to some video of Adam Ondra at Malham (that I've not yet seen), something about someone shouting "It's OK to grab the chain, Adam!".

Is it? Can you still claim a clean tick if you don't calmly climb to within good reach of the lower off, and reach for your cowstail? I have recently found myself grabbing at the chain when I'm feeling a bit wobbly at the end of a route. Is it cricket?

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Only in the case of certain routes, like the one Adam Ondra was on.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Personally i try not to grab it, but i dont go out of my way to avoid it. In my opinion you have finished the route by then. Also, i am happy with holding it, it is me climbing not anyone else, if other people think i have not completed the route, fine, i dont mind.

My feeling behind this is that grabing the chain is only the same as holding onto one of your anchor points on a trad route whilst setting up a belay.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I think that the route in question is unusual in that it does actually finish by grabbing the chain. Normally I would avoid doing this until I was in balance, but if I am scared or knackered I have very few qualms grabbing the chain/clipping a QD and grabbing it.

Thanks all.

In reply to Monk:

Except, if your like me, you end up in a right mess grabbing the chains. Most of the time I grab the chains its because I'm too spanked to clip it without, which normally means grabbing it makes no difference! I grab it and I'm still too spanked to clip it, so its just a case of pulling a bit higher and get the all too familiar feeling of knowing your gonna have to let go and take the fall!

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Ground covered here:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=411404&v=1#x5873243

In reply to shark:

Thanks.
Mind you: "Personally I think if a belay is placed so its desperate to clip then grabbing it is fair game"
6b is desperate for me, so.....

In reply to Monk:

The route he was told to grab the chain on was Energy Vampire. It is NOT normal practice to grab the chain on this route. Raindogs is the only route at Malham that grabbing the chain is acceptable.

In reply to Blue Straggler: You have to clip it unless it is the routes convention to do otherwise.

The only other option in my opinion is to double tap it and shout "victory jump!"

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

There's no chain to grab for starters!

In reply to Richard Hall:

I reckon I could go for that! How's tricks? Was down your way last weekend, well, Chepstow anyway.

In reply to Blue Straggler: I don't live in Wales!

Am very well anyway thanks. Am going to have to get back "up north" again soon, if you are around.

In reply to Richard Hall:

yhm

In reply to Tyler:

Well, no draws to grab even...
But he was onsighting!

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

My mistake, for some reason I thought it was Raindogs, but that wouldn't make any sense at all!

In reply to Monk:
yes, sorry careless post on my part!

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

what about frankenstein?

In reply to Mr Plow:

Yep, that's another one. Any more?

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

I think there's some more where clipping is hard / artificial e.g.

Mescalito - the chain is just in the wrong place, you move up to a jug at the top and then its to your left just out of reach to clip easily without any decent holds near by.
Something Stupid - you can clip it but its a hard move off a small crimp, there's no decent holds near the chain.

In reply to Ian Patterson:

50 for 5, you can either clipp a very long extension or grab the in-situ krabs, I don't think you could do both, not at 7b+ anyway.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:


Sorry, wasn't being pedantic just pointing out to those not familiar with this route.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

I didn't think that clipping belays etc was part of the sport grade

In reply to Ian Patterson:


Apart from the undercut that you shake out on while you contemplate the first few moves on The Groove.
That's not another one you've got to go back and do properly is it Ian.

In reply to Serpico:

As far as my sport knowledge and experience goes Raindogs is the only route i have come across where you grab the chain. Not Something Stupid, not Mescalito, not 50 for 5 and not Unjustified infact not any other sport route in the UK i think. If you dont clip it you dont claim it.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:
" Raindogs is the only route at Malham that grabbing the chain is acceptable."

Who exactly decides what is and isn't acceptable? Where can I apply for this job?

In reply to gaz parry / Adam Lincoln:

At the risk of repeating myself - clipping a chain isnt climbing and if its hard to clip then its contrived. If the accepted view is that that's unacceptable then bollocks to the accepted view.

In reply to gaz parry:

Theres absolutely no logic to that - why can you claim Raindogs, its perfectly possibly to clip the chain so why doesn't everyone.

Of the routes mentioned I've done Something Stupid both ways, thought it made more sense with a last move to grab the chain, Mescalito I just thought the chain was in a stupid place so didn't give it a second thought, 50 for 5 failed to do in dim and distant when it had a chain (before All Out) and to me clipping the belay makes no sense at all at 7b+ (unless you extend it when it makes even less sense).

In reply to shark:

Indeed, plenty of Britsh sport routes are contrived enough with tight lines and finishes in the middle of nowhere without adding to it.

In reply to Ian Patterson:

I don't remember it being an issue in the late 80's early 90's!

In reply to Blue Straggler: as im sure has been said already this is totally not done unless its a known exception!

In reply to Ian Patterson:


If you do 2 more moves after the crimp you get to a jug up and right. Safer clip too.

In reply to Mr Plow: No jug up and right but good pocket which you use if you are carrying on up The Groove. For Something Stupid you can clip off the crimp if you have a draw on the belay.

In reply to marky:

You can clip off the crimp without a draw in too. Thats what I've done every time I've been on it and I've never found it a problem.

In reply to Mr Plow:

Never been up there and I don't think many (any?) who tick Something Stupid as opposed to going on the groove do. But thats the point really, if its a good pocket then it's a better place to finish the route and the belay should be higher. Would it a higher grade?

In reply to Ian Patterson:

From memory I don't remember an obvious 'break point' between the two pitches, or an easier clip past the belay. But as I said earlier; if you get the undercut a couple of feet below the crimp at the belay with your right hand, use the crimp with your left to sort your feet into an Egyptian, you can then clip the belay from a good rest position.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

on portland you dont finish the route until you clip the top.

thats the accepted norm here