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how bad can shop staff be in outdoor shops in london?
i wanted to have a quick look at berghaus paclite jackets. i tried on a Large. i must have been eating too many shredded wheat recently or something, because it was too tight around my back. i'm taking it off when some muppet appears. 'don't you like it?' what does he mean, dont i like it, i'm not buying a freaking fashion item. no it doesnt fit. 'do you like that blue one?' pointing at a full-on 3-layer goretex mountaineering jacket. er no. you are a pillock and i am not buying anything in this cr@phole.
who can guess which chain this was?
i wanted to have a quick look at berghaus paclite jackets. i tried on a Large. i must have been eating too many shredded wheat recently or something, because it was too tight around my back. i'm taking it off when some muppet appears. 'don't you like it?' what does he mean, dont i like it, i'm not buying a freaking fashion item. no it doesnt fit. 'do you like that blue one?' pointing at a full-on 3-layer goretex mountaineering jacket. er no. you are a pillock and i am not buying anything in this cr@phole.
who can guess which chain this was?
In reply to felix: Gap???
In reply to felix:
who gives a f*ck. the staff probably get just as annoyed by dicks like you coming in and giving them hassle.
who gives a f*ck. the staff probably get just as annoyed by dicks like you coming in and giving them hassle.
In reply to felix:
Dammit wish I had seen it earlier then I would have got Blacks first time. Trubble is they are all as bad as each other, thinkin 'extreme sports' is rolling head over heels down Primrose hill when trolleyed, spend all their time nicking stuff from the shop and showin off how great they are to the customers, instead of actually doin anything!
Oh yeah and you should try the Primrose Hill thing it is really great, but you kinda get bruised.
Dammit wish I had seen it earlier then I would have got Blacks first time. Trubble is they are all as bad as each other, thinkin 'extreme sports' is rolling head over heels down Primrose hill when trolleyed, spend all their time nicking stuff from the shop and showin off how great they are to the customers, instead of actually doin anything!
Oh yeah and you should try the Primrose Hill thing it is really great, but you kinda get bruised.
In reply to Punter Hitch:
Roll down it head over heels when ming-monged
> (In reply to Dave Peachey)
>
>
> what is the primose hill thing?
>
>
> what is the primose hill thing?
Roll down it head over heels when ming-monged
In reply to felix:
Got to be Snow and Rock, bunch of wankers with no outdoor knowledge and the common courtesy and helpfulness of pond slime which is exactly what they are.
>
> who can guess which chain this was?
> who can guess which chain this was?
Got to be Snow and Rock, bunch of wankers with no outdoor knowledge and the common courtesy and helpfulness of pond slime which is exactly what they are.
In reply to felix: You should try a field and trek since when I forced to buy climbing gear from there, they look at me helplessly and I have to point to the shiny stuff that directly behind them. Comes as a shock to most of them everytime. I think they thought it part of the decoration. (purely my opinion of course).
In reply to Matt Wilson:
hmm, let's see. At 15.21, someone guessed at Blacks. At 15.24, this was announced as the right answer. At 15.52, Matt pronounces that it's 'Got to be Snow and Rock'. Not the smartest cookie today eh?
hmm, let's see. At 15.21, someone guessed at Blacks. At 15.24, this was announced as the right answer. At 15.52, Matt pronounces that it's 'Got to be Snow and Rock'. Not the smartest cookie today eh?
In reply to Matt Wilson:
I went into all the main oudoor store chains in London, asking for a drive in ice hook and I described it, two of them told me it didn't exist and the other two had no concept of what I was talking about. Oh and yes I was apparently talking to the 'winter climbing' staff, I assume by that they have thrown a snowball in the Alps. In the end I found one in Ellis Brigham after the guy invited me behind the counter to search for it myself!!!
Why sell kit if you have no concept of what its used for, after all these chains make a lot of money and is it so wrong to ask for advice?
Go to Scotland and its totally different, just down south from my experiance.
I went into all the main oudoor store chains in London, asking for a drive in ice hook and I described it, two of them told me it didn't exist and the other two had no concept of what I was talking about. Oh and yes I was apparently talking to the 'winter climbing' staff, I assume by that they have thrown a snowball in the Alps. In the end I found one in Ellis Brigham after the guy invited me behind the counter to search for it myself!!!
Why sell kit if you have no concept of what its used for, after all these chains make a lot of money and is it so wrong to ask for advice?
Go to Scotland and its totally different, just down south from my experiance.
In reply to felix:
I must admit that a long time ago I worked for Blacks! The manager was some dude from london that wanted everyone to be able to sell climbing gear and everyone to be able to sell skis. I went into one storerecently and observed that they no longer sell any technical gear.
I must admit that a long time ago I worked for Blacks! The manager was some dude from london that wanted everyone to be able to sell climbing gear and everyone to be able to sell skis. I went into one storerecently and observed that they no longer sell any technical gear.
In reply to felix:
They're mostly the same. If you want sense, go to Peglers in Arundel for general or climbing stuff, or Urban Rock/ Rock On in London for climbing gear.
Did hear the boot on the other foot in our local outdoor shop a few days ago (you know the one, my feline friend). Assistant was patiently trying to explain to clueless gap year punter and parent that a 30 litre rucksack would probably *not* be big enough for a 4 week trek through a rain forest. They insisted on seeing some, since that was the size given on the kit list, but then kept asking if they hadn't got any *bigger* 30 litre sacks, since all the kit on the list would *never* go in that space.
Assistant patiently got out every 30 litre they had, and also asked whether part of the kit was going to be transported via another means than rucksack/ punter's back (answer no). He recommended a 50 litre minimum, but probably a 60 litre for carrying *everything* for a 4 weeker.
Punters just didn't want to listen. The kit list said 30 litre, and 30 litre was what they were going to get. He suggested they go back and recheck with the expedition leader in case they'd misprinted or something, but no, punters *had* to get a sack "today". Dunno how it came out, as I left the shop, but it was hard not to laugh out loud during all this. The assistant was the model of tact throughout.
They're mostly the same. If you want sense, go to Peglers in Arundel for general or climbing stuff, or Urban Rock/ Rock On in London for climbing gear.
Did hear the boot on the other foot in our local outdoor shop a few days ago (you know the one, my feline friend). Assistant was patiently trying to explain to clueless gap year punter and parent that a 30 litre rucksack would probably *not* be big enough for a 4 week trek through a rain forest. They insisted on seeing some, since that was the size given on the kit list, but then kept asking if they hadn't got any *bigger* 30 litre sacks, since all the kit on the list would *never* go in that space.
Assistant patiently got out every 30 litre they had, and also asked whether part of the kit was going to be transported via another means than rucksack/ punter's back (answer no). He recommended a 50 litre minimum, but probably a 60 litre for carrying *everything* for a 4 weeker.
Punters just didn't want to listen. The kit list said 30 litre, and 30 litre was what they were going to get. He suggested they go back and recheck with the expedition leader in case they'd misprinted or something, but no, punters *had* to get a sack "today". Dunno how it came out, as I left the shop, but it was hard not to laugh out loud during all this. The assistant was the model of tact throughout.
In reply to Rob Naylor:
worse than the clueless customer is the old man of the mountains that proceeds to tell you that you know shit and that he's "done a bit"
worse than the clueless customer is the old man of the mountains that proceeds to tell you that you know shit and that he's "done a bit"
In reply to tony:
Yeah, so I didn't read the whole thread and fancied slating S&R, sorry.
>
> hmm, let's see. At 15.21, someone guessed at Blacks. At 15.24, this was announced as the right answer. At 15.52, Matt pronounces that it's 'Got to be Snow and Rock'. Not the smartest cookie today eh?
> hmm, let's see. At 15.21, someone guessed at Blacks. At 15.24, this was announced as the right answer. At 15.52, Matt pronounces that it's 'Got to be Snow and Rock'. Not the smartest cookie today eh?
Yeah, so I didn't read the whole thread and fancied slating S&R, sorry.
In reply to felix:
Blacks in my town (right down south) are utter s***. Snow and rock in Portsmouth were great when I went though...must have been served by the one and only climber that works there! Rock on in London I thought was superb, staff were passionate climbers who really knew what they were talking about
Blacks in my town (right down south) are utter s***. Snow and rock in Portsmouth were great when I went though...must have been served by the one and only climber that works there! Rock on in London I thought was superb, staff were passionate climbers who really knew what they were talking about
Ellis Brighams in Liverpool suffer too, i was buying pitons and got blank looks when I asked for them, ended up advising a customer looking for boots suitable for scrambling and then tried to get the new rockfax guide from them until i was told it would take about 2 weeks, so I ordered it on Rock and run, it arrived the next day with £10 voucher.
In reply to Rob Naylor:
Overheard in Slush and Rubble:
"Do these sandals take crampons?"
"If I don't use all of this gas cartridge, will you give me a refund on the rest?"
"What's the warmest sleeping-bag you've got?"
(Assistant indicates a range of fluffy down things) "Well, Sir, we've got these - they're comfortable to minus twenty"
(Acting slightly indignant) "Is that the warmest you do?"
"Can I ask what sort of thing you're looking for?"
"Well, last month, I went camping with my daughter in the Peak District and I borrowed her friend's sleeping-bag and I was so cold I nearly got hypothermia. We're going again at the end of July and I want to be properly warm this time."
And then, of course, there was the *very* indignant gentleman who came storming into Rock On demanding a refund because his new rock shoes had sent his feet a funny colour. The assistant (trying very hard not to laugh), explained that this was normal and received a rant in response . . . which tailed off in embarrassment as several other climbers lounging in the shop each pulled off one boot and displayed feet in glorious shades of black, bright purple, orange and lime-green.
Overheard in Slush and Rubble:
"Do these sandals take crampons?"
"If I don't use all of this gas cartridge, will you give me a refund on the rest?"
"What's the warmest sleeping-bag you've got?"
(Assistant indicates a range of fluffy down things) "Well, Sir, we've got these - they're comfortable to minus twenty"
(Acting slightly indignant) "Is that the warmest you do?"
"Can I ask what sort of thing you're looking for?"
"Well, last month, I went camping with my daughter in the Peak District and I borrowed her friend's sleeping-bag and I was so cold I nearly got hypothermia. We're going again at the end of July and I want to be properly warm this time."
And then, of course, there was the *very* indignant gentleman who came storming into Rock On demanding a refund because his new rock shoes had sent his feet a funny colour. The assistant (trying very hard not to laugh), explained that this was normal and received a rant in response . . . which tailed off in embarrassment as several other climbers lounging in the shop each pulled off one boot and displayed feet in glorious shades of black, bright purple, orange and lime-green.
In reply to Anonymous:
Ellis Brigham in London seems alright, I enjoyed their customer service when I was there, at the Covent garden branch...
> Ellis Brighams in Liverpool suffer too,
Ellis Brigham in London seems alright, I enjoyed their customer service when I was there, at the Covent garden branch...
In reply to Wingnut: I was once climbing in Snowdonia with someone who was explaining that he couldn't understand how you could get your pack down to 25lbs. He went on to explain that he had stripped everything down to the absolute and bearest minimum and the pack still weighed 35lbs. A little later on we stopped and he got out his folding stool. I fell over with laughter.
In reply to Rob Naylor:
If you don't fancy the drive to Arundel go to Breaking Free in Farnham. Dave the owner is great, and they all know what they are talking about and selling.
If you don't fancy the drive to Arundel go to Breaking Free in Farnham. Dave the owner is great, and they all know what they are talking about and selling.
In reply to dave: S+R in Chertsey are usually quite good, only a couple of salesguys know about climbing, but if the other staff don't know they'll get someone who does know, rather than bluff.
In reply to felix: Luxury!!!
here in sunny leicester, we have canyon camping.
i went in to buy a shunt the other day, didnt have any
went in to buy some small nuts, same story,
went in to buy some 4mm cord, non
4ft slings... not a single one in sight.
sheepy went in to get a chalk ball, lol, guess what....
shall i go on?
on top of this, you get jumped on by someone who once wore a pair of walking socks and hassled into thier sales pitch.
grrrrrrrrrrrr.
here in sunny leicester, we have canyon camping.
i went in to buy a shunt the other day, didnt have any
went in to buy some small nuts, same story,
went in to buy some 4mm cord, non
4ft slings... not a single one in sight.
sheepy went in to get a chalk ball, lol, guess what....
shall i go on?
on top of this, you get jumped on by someone who once wore a pair of walking socks and hassled into thier sales pitch.
grrrrrrrrrrrr.
In reply to Chris Georg:
Here in Callington we have no outdoors shops, and the only decent one in Plymouth (the YHA shop) where they knew what they were selling and actually had some decent kit, has closed down. It's a shame, but I think a lot of this is down to climbers not generally supporting their local climbing shop and instead buying their shiney-clickies in shops near to XYZ crag at the opposite end of the country, for instance Mountain Joes (or whatever it is called) in Capel Curig.
Here in Callington we have no outdoors shops, and the only decent one in Plymouth (the YHA shop) where they knew what they were selling and actually had some decent kit, has closed down. It's a shame, but I think a lot of this is down to climbers not generally supporting their local climbing shop and instead buying their shiney-clickies in shops near to XYZ crag at the opposite end of the country, for instance Mountain Joes (or whatever it is called) in Capel Curig.
anyone been into any of these shops and asked for a skyhook?
you know they hang in the sky and you can use them to hold stuff and as anchor points!
In reply to Sammy-B:
But you do have a Ginsters factory - ideal for biodegradable gear...
> (In reply to Chris Georg)
>
> Here in Callington we have no outdoors shops,
>
> Here in Callington we have no outdoors shops,
But you do have a Ginsters factory - ideal for biodegradable gear...
In reply to felix: I agree it's frustrating going into gear shops and being served by eijits who haven't a clue what you are talking about, I've resigned myself to the fact that generally in London it's a loooong way from proper rock, the shops stock the gear but don't rely on it as part of their main turnover so have low expectation. If I need advice I'll go to one of the shops where I know they're clued up or wait till i'm in the Peak, Nwales etc.
The shops at the Castle and W-Way seem pretty clued up
The shops at the Castle and W-Way seem pretty clued up
In reply to felix:
What do you expect london is full of tw*ts! They can't expect normal people to commute that far just for a crappy shop wage.
What do you expect london is full of tw*ts! They can't expect normal people to commute that far just for a crappy shop wage.
That raises an interesting point. Are London shop staff paid some sort of minimum wage, or is the higher proportion of monkeys due to the vastly less outdoorsy nature of Londoners in general?
Occasionally I come across a store person who really knows what they are talking about, and it's fun to enthuse about climbing or travel for a while, but as I no longer plan on relying on store advice I usually know exactly what gear I'm after already.
Occasionally I come across a store person who really knows what they are talking about, and it's fun to enthuse about climbing or travel for a while, but as I no longer plan on relying on store advice I usually know exactly what gear I'm after already.
In reply to felix:
i was in the jo royale in buxton a month back and nearly pissed myself with laughter. i went in with my mate, who needed some c3 crampons for the himal (he's out there now) since there would be a fair bit of mixed and steep ice etc. in we crawled, my mate with his boots on so he could check that the crampons fitted properly. i asked for a pair of c3's that were of the clip on style. the chap looked at me, pointed to the rack and said thats all they've got. there were no less than 2 pairs of c3's and he hadnt a clue. on asking a few questions it became clear he'd never seen snow or even bothered to learn anything about what he was selling. 40mins later after id taught him the basisics of winter gear we left (the only reason i actually bothered to talk longer than 4 words was that it was raining and the days cragging was over so needed to kill time). absolut (sp?) joke. field and trek need a good sledging too. had a chap try to tell me that a mesh pocket insert was designed like goretex and that this pocket (bog standard thing really) was the latest in design. i promptly left.
now ive had a good grumble and general whine i feel that desert rock sports near las vegas need commending on being the best gear shop on the planet. you go in and dont have some spotty guy (with catalogue memorised) peering over your shoulder. its run by a couple of climbers who live their dream of climbing. ask any question and they'll tell you straight. they're so honest that they'll even say if they dont have what you need and tell you where to get it, but it'll be really obscure if they dont have it. best advice ive ever been given there, and a free muffin with every purchase - a proper crag muffin thats huge and seriously yummy. hats off to you guys.
i was in the jo royale in buxton a month back and nearly pissed myself with laughter. i went in with my mate, who needed some c3 crampons for the himal (he's out there now) since there would be a fair bit of mixed and steep ice etc. in we crawled, my mate with his boots on so he could check that the crampons fitted properly. i asked for a pair of c3's that were of the clip on style. the chap looked at me, pointed to the rack and said thats all they've got. there were no less than 2 pairs of c3's and he hadnt a clue. on asking a few questions it became clear he'd never seen snow or even bothered to learn anything about what he was selling. 40mins later after id taught him the basisics of winter gear we left (the only reason i actually bothered to talk longer than 4 words was that it was raining and the days cragging was over so needed to kill time). absolut (sp?) joke. field and trek need a good sledging too. had a chap try to tell me that a mesh pocket insert was designed like goretex and that this pocket (bog standard thing really) was the latest in design. i promptly left.
now ive had a good grumble and general whine i feel that desert rock sports near las vegas need commending on being the best gear shop on the planet. you go in and dont have some spotty guy (with catalogue memorised) peering over your shoulder. its run by a couple of climbers who live their dream of climbing. ask any question and they'll tell you straight. they're so honest that they'll even say if they dont have what you need and tell you where to get it, but it'll be really obscure if they dont have it. best advice ive ever been given there, and a free muffin with every purchase - a proper crag muffin thats huge and seriously yummy. hats off to you guys.
In reply to Arran Willis:
Bugger! I never got the muffin! Bloody good service, I'll agree with you there. I seem to recall an exceptionally good looking female shop person too...
>
> now ive had a good grumble and general whine i feel that desert rock sports near las vegas need commending on being the best gear shop on the planet. you go in and dont have some spotty guy (with catalogue memorised) peering over your shoulder. its run by a couple of climbers who live their dream of climbing. ask any question and they'll tell you straight. they're so honest that they'll even say if they dont have what you need and tell you where to get it, but it'll be really obscure if they dont have it. best advice ive ever been given there, and a free muffin with every purchase - a proper crag muffin thats huge and seriously yummy. hats off to you guys.
> now ive had a good grumble and general whine i feel that desert rock sports near las vegas need commending on being the best gear shop on the planet. you go in and dont have some spotty guy (with catalogue memorised) peering over your shoulder. its run by a couple of climbers who live their dream of climbing. ask any question and they'll tell you straight. they're so honest that they'll even say if they dont have what you need and tell you where to get it, but it'll be really obscure if they dont have it. best advice ive ever been given there, and a free muffin with every purchase - a proper crag muffin thats huge and seriously yummy. hats off to you guys.
Bugger! I never got the muffin! Bloody good service, I'll agree with you there. I seem to recall an exceptionally good looking female shop person too...
In reply to tony:
muffins arent always there. i had a chat with the lass too, but shes taken sadly. good rock gym next to it. climb, shop, crag and back to the shop for a natter with the staff about where to go.
muffins arent always there. i had a chat with the lass too, but shes taken sadly. good rock gym next to it. climb, shop, crag and back to the shop for a natter with the staff about where to go.
blacks are crap. but two questions:
- if you're in a shop and someone clueless is being given stupid advice, or buying something crap, should you tell 'em. like you're there, and they're getting a Charlet Pulsar because they're being guided up mont blanc in this summer, do you point out they don't need an ice tool.
- also, what are the prices like at pegglers. are they higher? i'd got the impression they were but may be wrong.
In reply to felix: I had the dubious honour of working in Portsmouth's snow and rock for an excessively long 4 months before christmas last year (what can i say the discount was good and unemployment sucks).
The fact that i told people that something was available in cotswold, peglar's or even millets which we wouldn't do went down like bacon butties in a synagogue.
Left after filling mine and my mates pockets with tonnes of cheap gear, we all won they got shafted, brilliant.
my thoughts on it all, read a magazine, have a play in a shop and tell matey to f@*k right off til you're good and ready
The fact that i told people that something was available in cotswold, peglar's or even millets which we wouldn't do went down like bacon butties in a synagogue.
Left after filling mine and my mates pockets with tonnes of cheap gear, we all won they got shafted, brilliant.
my thoughts on it all, read a magazine, have a play in a shop and tell matey to f@*k right off til you're good and ready
In reply to Anonymous:
F**k U lodoners are cool it was probably a few northern monkies who were working there!!!!!
> (In reply to felix)
> What do you expect london is full of tw*ts! They can't expect normal people to commute that far just for a crappy shop wage.
> What do you expect london is full of tw*ts! They can't expect normal people to commute that far just for a crappy shop wage.
F**k U lodoners are cool it was probably a few northern monkies who were working there!!!!!
In reply to felix:
1. Can't expect every shop/sales assistant to have used all gear and know all technical spec.
1a. You should at least hope for them to refer you to a staff member who knows about the item
2. Stark difference between those there to churn out bollox and sell stuff and those there to genuiely help.
2a. Don't shop where you get pounced on, they are there to sell not to help.
3. Partly the fault of the mother company, Black Group Plc (includes millets, free spirit etc) does not invest time and though in their product range, or any energy in staff training. The millets in oxford has a massive staff turnover of kids under 18. One example, millets stock petroleum fluid and the staff recommend it for trangias, despite the fact Trangia say only use alcohol based fuels....
4. Look at manufacturers/shop web sites before going in, some have good info.
5. High street will screw you over and you'll never know it
i) My company raises a price one day only to put it on a 'bargain' price the next day.
ii)They buy in products and hype the price to give a 'good' discount. e.g. Coat we had in RRP apparently £250, now ONLY £150. This coat(3 years ago was only £145 full RRP). I cant and don’t try to justify these to customers, many sales staff will.
I work for a crappy little company called Outdoors, to its shame formerly Scout shops. Its in an interesting position. The staff are well trained and know about what they've got in store, mostly. But the guys running the company haven’t got a clue, we get NO choice as to what we stock, they refuse to listen to staff representing customer views. E.g. Customers are requesting Scarpa boots or Paramo, but no, exec knows best. Additionally the onlt staff training the company gives is on how to sell (Features Advantages and Benefits) This involves explaining to the customer what they can see anyway. :/
They give no product knowledge training unless an item they misguidedly bought in massive bulk is not selling.
The problem is with most shops is that those that run the company have only ever ventured outside when getting into there car to go to work at the office of an outdoor company.
Blacks, Millets, Oswald Bailey etc are in this position as is outdoors (although I feel at least we on average will know what we're talking about even if we don't have the products we want to talk about!!!!)YHA opposite good gear, no knowledge. Maybe that will change since Karrimor just bought YHA hence many many closures....
Advice: - Stick to small independent shops, e.g. Outside, CCC, LD Mountain Centre, Touchwoods Sports, Needle sports etc. They will have committed outdoorsy staff who use the gear, they will be a bit more expensive (RRP) but its worth it for good advice.
A good high street store should at least be able to point you in the direction of the gear.
1. Can't expect every shop/sales assistant to have used all gear and know all technical spec.
1a. You should at least hope for them to refer you to a staff member who knows about the item
2. Stark difference between those there to churn out bollox and sell stuff and those there to genuiely help.
2a. Don't shop where you get pounced on, they are there to sell not to help.
3. Partly the fault of the mother company, Black Group Plc (includes millets, free spirit etc) does not invest time and though in their product range, or any energy in staff training. The millets in oxford has a massive staff turnover of kids under 18. One example, millets stock petroleum fluid and the staff recommend it for trangias, despite the fact Trangia say only use alcohol based fuels....
4. Look at manufacturers/shop web sites before going in, some have good info.
5. High street will screw you over and you'll never know it
i) My company raises a price one day only to put it on a 'bargain' price the next day.
ii)They buy in products and hype the price to give a 'good' discount. e.g. Coat we had in RRP apparently £250, now ONLY £150. This coat(3 years ago was only £145 full RRP). I cant and don’t try to justify these to customers, many sales staff will.
I work for a crappy little company called Outdoors, to its shame formerly Scout shops. Its in an interesting position. The staff are well trained and know about what they've got in store, mostly. But the guys running the company haven’t got a clue, we get NO choice as to what we stock, they refuse to listen to staff representing customer views. E.g. Customers are requesting Scarpa boots or Paramo, but no, exec knows best. Additionally the onlt staff training the company gives is on how to sell (Features Advantages and Benefits) This involves explaining to the customer what they can see anyway. :/
They give no product knowledge training unless an item they misguidedly bought in massive bulk is not selling.
The problem is with most shops is that those that run the company have only ever ventured outside when getting into there car to go to work at the office of an outdoor company.
Blacks, Millets, Oswald Bailey etc are in this position as is outdoors (although I feel at least we on average will know what we're talking about even if we don't have the products we want to talk about!!!!)YHA opposite good gear, no knowledge. Maybe that will change since Karrimor just bought YHA hence many many closures....
Advice: - Stick to small independent shops, e.g. Outside, CCC, LD Mountain Centre, Touchwoods Sports, Needle sports etc. They will have committed outdoorsy staff who use the gear, they will be a bit more expensive (RRP) but its worth it for good advice.
A good high street store should at least be able to point you in the direction of the gear.
its easy. if someone who is trying to serve you just ask "are you a climber yourself then" this way you get to work out their background and you get to know how committed they are cause anyone who is a climber will at least say what they climb, what they are planning to climb etc. So you get to know how experienced they are and how passionate they are about the sport in about 1 min. Paraphrase some shit you read about a product in a magazine or on here and see if they give a sensible reply. In the best shops (cotswald in partick, glasgow is suprisingly good) you might come out with nothing, if they dont have what you wanted but, like me, you may have a new knowledge of backcountry snowboarding and where the shop assistant is going on holiday in a week!
In reply to stu:
>> Advice: - Stick to small independent shops, e.g. Outside, CCC, LD Mountain Centre, Touchwoods Sports, Needle sports etc. They will have committed outdoorsy staff who use the gear, they will be a bit more expensive (RRP) but its worth it for good advice.
Hear hear!
I am quite happy to pay a *little* bit more for friendly, knowledgeable staff, a good selection of kit, and a decent returns policy. I also don't mind having to order stuff and wait, as long as this doesn't commit me to the purchase. I like to have a play with stuff for a while before buying.
I'll add Open Spaces (Brighton) and Peglers to your list too.
Doug
>> Advice: - Stick to small independent shops, e.g. Outside, CCC, LD Mountain Centre, Touchwoods Sports, Needle sports etc. They will have committed outdoorsy staff who use the gear, they will be a bit more expensive (RRP) but its worth it for good advice.
Hear hear!
I am quite happy to pay a *little* bit more for friendly, knowledgeable staff, a good selection of kit, and a decent returns policy. I also don't mind having to order stuff and wait, as long as this doesn't commit me to the purchase. I like to have a play with stuff for a while before buying.
I'll add Open Spaces (Brighton) and Peglers to your list too.
Doug
In reply.
Having worked at Outdoors myself I can agree with all that was said about it there. The shop staff are often not to blame. The selling technique as instructed by managers (and annoyingly policed them them) is never to ask questions that can have a yes or no answer. I never did get the hang of this and being a traveller and climber myself found that being honest with serious customers and saying a polite "do you want any help?" a suitable time after they had entered the shop was the best way. Though i often got told that this was wrong. Still a lot of my customers have become my friends. I have even married one of them now so i can`t have been all bad.
The customers too are changing, the gap year no-hopers are (particularly in the south) the norm. They ordinarily shop at gap or similar and expect the same kind of vacuous service. Shop assistants are paid shit treated like shit and as the customers have become more demanding, less knowledgable and ruder. Most serious climbers and travellers can`t put up with for long but as we are mostly saving for our next trip or whatever we do even though it is, we all know, shit.
I have had a customer use the immortal words "The customer is always right" in an argument with me. It was an arguement about a climbing harness and after I had explained and even rang a friend at wild country (who made the bloddy thing) she still wasn`t having any of it. She wanted her money back you see, even though the fault was the result of her son`s stupidity and I could have fixed it for the cost (we were prepared to wave) of 1m of 3mm cord.
Really it is hard out there. Granted for climbing gear they shouldn`t have morans. the trade discription act actually makes the salesperson legally resposible for the suitability of the product they are selling and for the likes of climbing gear they shouldn`t let the un-trained sell it. I found by the way the old Fand T quite good. back when it was just two shops, the staff were well active and knew what they were talking about. As for cotswolds at shepherds bush it had at one time to be the best shop in london. Neil Gresham and Rachel Farmer worked there and no-one could say they didn`t know there stuff. Neil still does!!!!
Peglers is the place to go now.
We average about 6-7, 000 a year so cut us some slack and if you are served by an idiot go somewhere else.
Customers are idiots sometimes too.
Damon (no out of it all in Japan where I am desperate to go climbing)
Having worked at Outdoors myself I can agree with all that was said about it there. The shop staff are often not to blame. The selling technique as instructed by managers (and annoyingly policed them them) is never to ask questions that can have a yes or no answer. I never did get the hang of this and being a traveller and climber myself found that being honest with serious customers and saying a polite "do you want any help?" a suitable time after they had entered the shop was the best way. Though i often got told that this was wrong. Still a lot of my customers have become my friends. I have even married one of them now so i can`t have been all bad.
The customers too are changing, the gap year no-hopers are (particularly in the south) the norm. They ordinarily shop at gap or similar and expect the same kind of vacuous service. Shop assistants are paid shit treated like shit and as the customers have become more demanding, less knowledgable and ruder. Most serious climbers and travellers can`t put up with for long but as we are mostly saving for our next trip or whatever we do even though it is, we all know, shit.
I have had a customer use the immortal words "The customer is always right" in an argument with me. It was an arguement about a climbing harness and after I had explained and even rang a friend at wild country (who made the bloddy thing) she still wasn`t having any of it. She wanted her money back you see, even though the fault was the result of her son`s stupidity and I could have fixed it for the cost (we were prepared to wave) of 1m of 3mm cord.
Really it is hard out there. Granted for climbing gear they shouldn`t have morans. the trade discription act actually makes the salesperson legally resposible for the suitability of the product they are selling and for the likes of climbing gear they shouldn`t let the un-trained sell it. I found by the way the old Fand T quite good. back when it was just two shops, the staff were well active and knew what they were talking about. As for cotswolds at shepherds bush it had at one time to be the best shop in london. Neil Gresham and Rachel Farmer worked there and no-one could say they didn`t know there stuff. Neil still does!!!!
Peglers is the place to go now.
We average about 6-7, 000 a year so cut us some slack and if you are served by an idiot go somewhere else.
Customers are idiots sometimes too.
Damon (no out of it all in Japan where I am desperate to go climbing)
In reply.
Having worked at Outdoors myself I can agree with all that was said about it there. The shop staff are often not to blame. The selling technique as instructed by managers (and annoyingly policed them them) is never to ask questions that can have a yes or no answer. I never did get the hang of this and being a traveller and climber myself found that being honest with serious customers and saying a polite "do you want any help?" a suitable time after they had entered the shop was the best way. Though i often got told that this was wrong. Still a lot of my customers have become my friends. I have even married one of them now so i can`t have been all bad.
The customers too are changing, the gap year no-hopers are (particularly in the south) the norm. They ordinarily shop at gap or similar and expect the same kind of vacuous service. Shop assistants are paid shit treated like shit and as the customers have become more demanding, less knowledgable and ruder. Most serious climbers and travellers can`t put up with for long but as we are mostly saving for our next trip or whatever we do even though it is, we all know, shit.
I have had a customer use the immortal words "The customer is always right" in an argument with me. It was an arguement about a climbing harness and after I had explained and even rang a friend at wild country (who made the bloddy thing) she still wasn`t having any of it. She wanted her money back you see, even though the fault was the result of her son`s stupidity and I could have fixed it for the cost (we were prepared to wave) of 1m of 3mm cord.
Really it is hard out there. Granted for climbing gear they shouldn`t have morans. the trade discription act actually makes the salesperson legally resposible for the suitability of the product they are selling and for the likes of climbing gear they shouldn`t let the un-trained sell it. I found by the way the old Fand T quite good. back when it was just two shops, the staff were well active and knew what they were talking about. As for cotswolds at shepherds bush it had at one time to be the best shop in london. Neil Gresham and Rachel Farmer worked there and no-one could say they didn`t know there stuff. Neil still does!!!!
Peglers is the place to go now.
We average about 6-7, 000 a year so cut us some slack and if you are served by an idiot go somewhere else.
Remember customers are idiots too sometimes and if you can talk normally you a salesperson rather than just lording it over them because the weather is bad outside and you are momentarily in a position of authority, you might find better service. After several months of about a hundred people a day being rude or indifferent to you it is very economical to not get too involved with every customer that comes in the shop. The manager is on your back to make money. His manager is on his back. It takes energy to be nice all the time and if someone is just coming in to escpe the rain. Sod em waste of my time.
Damon (now out of it all in Japan where I am desperate to go climbing)
Having worked at Outdoors myself I can agree with all that was said about it there. The shop staff are often not to blame. The selling technique as instructed by managers (and annoyingly policed them them) is never to ask questions that can have a yes or no answer. I never did get the hang of this and being a traveller and climber myself found that being honest with serious customers and saying a polite "do you want any help?" a suitable time after they had entered the shop was the best way. Though i often got told that this was wrong. Still a lot of my customers have become my friends. I have even married one of them now so i can`t have been all bad.
The customers too are changing, the gap year no-hopers are (particularly in the south) the norm. They ordinarily shop at gap or similar and expect the same kind of vacuous service. Shop assistants are paid shit treated like shit and as the customers have become more demanding, less knowledgable and ruder. Most serious climbers and travellers can`t put up with for long but as we are mostly saving for our next trip or whatever we do even though it is, we all know, shit.
I have had a customer use the immortal words "The customer is always right" in an argument with me. It was an arguement about a climbing harness and after I had explained and even rang a friend at wild country (who made the bloddy thing) she still wasn`t having any of it. She wanted her money back you see, even though the fault was the result of her son`s stupidity and I could have fixed it for the cost (we were prepared to wave) of 1m of 3mm cord.
Really it is hard out there. Granted for climbing gear they shouldn`t have morans. the trade discription act actually makes the salesperson legally resposible for the suitability of the product they are selling and for the likes of climbing gear they shouldn`t let the un-trained sell it. I found by the way the old Fand T quite good. back when it was just two shops, the staff were well active and knew what they were talking about. As for cotswolds at shepherds bush it had at one time to be the best shop in london. Neil Gresham and Rachel Farmer worked there and no-one could say they didn`t know there stuff. Neil still does!!!!
Peglers is the place to go now.
We average about 6-7, 000 a year so cut us some slack and if you are served by an idiot go somewhere else.
Remember customers are idiots too sometimes and if you can talk normally you a salesperson rather than just lording it over them because the weather is bad outside and you are momentarily in a position of authority, you might find better service. After several months of about a hundred people a day being rude or indifferent to you it is very economical to not get too involved with every customer that comes in the shop. The manager is on your back to make money. His manager is on his back. It takes energy to be nice all the time and if someone is just coming in to escpe the rain. Sod em waste of my time.
Damon (now out of it all in Japan where I am desperate to go climbing)
In reply to felix: Leicester? Bring back Roger Turners and/or Tracks. Roger Turners had a quaint idea that the staff new what they were selling and Tarcks had a couple of climbers,but if they weren't in they would let you know if they didnt know about a particular product.
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