UKC

http://www.dundeemountainfilm.org.uk/

"The Walk of Life (E12 7a) on the North Devon Coast which is regarded as the world's hardest traditional route."

Isn't that stretching the truth a fair bit? David MacLeod downgraded this to E9 right? From reading the news reports I got the impression cobra crack and rhapsody are both considerably harder (as well as all the E10s)

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=45540

In reply to CurlyStevo:
Well do people think its on that various climbing sources are still listing this as the harderst traditional climb in the world despite there being considerable doubt regarding this.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

What do you class as considerable doubt? One guy says E12, one says E9.

That's it. Nobody else has climbed it.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Dunno about Walk of Life but don't forget to add Meltdown to your contenders

In reply to snoop6060:

fifty/fifty then.......thats considerable doubt in my book

In reply to snoop6060:
OK but AFAIK the only person to have climbed rhapsody and the Walk oif Life is Dave M and he is saying that it's a good 2 grades easier. I think that should be enough to stop touting this as the worlds hardest trad route. If it's not then how many subsequent ascents are needed?

Perhaps James P should lead rhaposdy so he will have lead atleast one E11 before grading a route E12! I'm pretty sure the repeats of Rhapsody confirmed the grades Dave M quoted (E11 with F8C+ sport climbing difficulty). Surely it would have been better to slightly undergrade the route than to over grade it? This type of route is doubtlessly going to be head pointed anyways.

How hard would the climbing on a very bold E12 need to be, I'm thinking at least F8C. However Dave who has climbed a lot at this level thinks it only at most F8a+ and not that bold.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/databases/crags/comptable.html

My personal view is the grade of Walk of Life is going to settle somewhere between E8 and E10, but this is really only based on what I've read from people who've climbed and attempted it.

In reply to Blue Straggler:
sorry I actually wasn't attempting to list all the contenders for the worlds hardest trad routes. I'm sure there are a few more also.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

I know, I was being playful (but with a nod to the fact that nobody seems to mention Meltdown, which is a route that expected to actually get DISPROPORTIONATE attention merely by dint of the first ascent being by a woman). Anyhow. As you were

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Nowt wrong with a bit of hype. It's a traditional part of Brit climbing media, isn't it? What was that Birtles quote way back when about Supersonic on High Tor?

Should still be a cracking talk from a very talented guy, even if the title is a bit tortuous...

In reply to CurlyStevo: I wanted to ask about this but couldn't be arsed. It seems bizarre that it is still graded E12 when the boy doing it has not climbed E11 and the guy who has done E11 says it is E9. What is the usual criteria for a super hard route being downgraded?

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Oh dear - this is going to get out of hand!

I think James himself has since admitted E12 is maybe a bit crazy. Search the articles for the video of the the 'Great British Grade Debate'

Ben Brasby, James Pearson and the dude from the lakes who is hard to understand all discuss it.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Personally i agree with you, but please steve, this has been done to death on here!

Us lowly punters have no idea of how hard it is to climb at that level, and are never going to be in a place to definitively grade such a climb.

As to the sponsors still using E12, it's all a marketing ploy. North face and the other sponsors love having their names associated with a climber who climbed 'the world's hardest climb'.

Let's not give them any more publicity.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

PS, i saw pearson at Kendal last year and his talk was well recieved. He is a young, energetic and very talented climber. Let him have his 15 minutes of fame, and when he starts repeating some ultra hard classics, give him the appropriate respect.

In reply to Dave Morrison:

Is it actually E11 tho?

NOt sure if Sonnie Trotter or Steve Mclure actually said, yes I think this is E11. They climbed it and said its about 8c. The danger of the route is some dispute. Sonnie took 20+ falls from the top and didnt hurt himself once.

In reply to Dave Morrison:

Pearson is a "boy" and MacLeod is a "guy", then?

In reply to CurlyStevo:

And McClure did Rhapsody rather easily............

In reply to Dave Morrison:

I saw that comment that you deleted.

MacLeod is 30 or 31, Pearson is 23 or 24.

I got the impression you were using "boy" in a rather derogatory sense which is why I picked you up on it. Maybe I was over-interpreting

In reply to snoop6060:

Steve McClure confirmed Dave's grade for Rhapsody. From his blog:
"For sure I don’t think Dave over-graded the route. His falls were nasty, and they could have been worse, that messes with your head. His proposal of E11 was fair and not exaggerated. Originally I was convinced it must be E10, going straight for the lead after just a few hours looking at the route, taking a whipper and barely feeling a thing. The fall was safe. A safe F8c cannot be E11. But I underestimated the route. There is a lot more climbing above where I fell, and on my lead I had to dig deeper than I have for a long time. The last move was as close as it gets. Perhaps if I’d fallen I’d have known for sure…."

In reply to Blue Straggler: Yup I thought it best to check rather than guess and I was wrong. I saw him in HXS recently and he looked mega young.

Does it not make a huge difference to the grade of the climb for the first ascencionist - who succeeds - after taking huge falls onto marginal gear. The wall was an oft tried project - with a lot of history, atmosphere etc. That would affect anyones judgement when grading a climb especially one of this nature and stature. For Macleod to comment on the walk of life as he did - is it not a statement - of the fact that James hasn't bothered to repeat his Dumby E11 - that when you look at the topo - is really an eliminate???just an opinion.....

And as for marketing - is it really thought that James is climbing to please sponsors - I highly doubt it

In reply to snoop6060:

But a route of 8C+ doesn't have to be mega dangerous to get E11 it just needs to be very slightly more bold than average see the following table. Rhapsody does have a runout for the 8c+ crux hence the grade.

Another example is however safe F9a+/F9b climbing is it could never really be E10, the climbing is just too hard.

In reply to CurlyStevo:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/databases/crags/comptable.html

In reply to CurlyStevo:

How linear/meaningful are those trad-sport conversions, really, beyond even the lower E-grades, though?

In reply to CurlyStevo: This is why I couldn't be arsed asking...

In reply to Kid Spatula:

And McClure did Rhapsody rather easily............

Not sure about that - Did he not scamper of left near the top?

In reply to Blue Straggler:
I think actually they are more meaningfull in the upper grades that's why so many hard trad climbers use them.

In reply to ab tat:
not according to her comments on this thread, I really think you should be sure before posting comments like that.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=306469

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Fair enough (my question was earnest). Ta

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Opps, time is a limited resorce for myself. I will do my best to trawl through old threads before posting anything mildly controversial next time, or not..

In reply to ab tat:
>
>

He certainly appeared to be moving left in the video, although he says he wasn't really. But he did use pre-placed gear.

Having said that, anything anywhere near that level is so far over my head (and most of our heads) that I'd just leave it to those who can really judge to thrash out the grades!

In reply to petestack:


That would be three people on Earth then...and they have already said what they are going to say.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

And that's fine by me!