UKC

Been out of the game for a big chunk of life...

Probably since before 2010, work, kids; then broken leg cycling made running more difficult and with suddenly enthusiastic kids, I was brought back to climbing again. Climbing was always there though in the back of the mind. After a couple of false starts (pulling harder than pathetic tendons could cope with), I've now done as much as I can since February, out and about, a day here and there, grabbing what I can. It's been great.

...but where are all the climbers? Many lovely days or evenings in Dunkeld, perhaps one or two other climbing parties max; nothing like it used to be. On the smaller crags in the area, not many appear much climbed. Or perfect weekend weather in Creag Dubh and only one other climbing party there. Lichen and small trees trying to win back in lots of crags. While choice appears to continue to grow, created by welcome enthusiasts. But, disproportionately, the climbing seems quieter. The only place I've seen almost busy is Benny Beg.

What's going on? My imagination? Just luck of the draw? Or is it actually quieter, and if so why? Bouldering seems more popular, but at a cost to the rest? Am I talking BS?

In short they're all bouldering down at Dumby! Always busy.

I did some routes outside at Ratho yesterday (sunny all day and tonnes of wind to keep it fresh), and pals told me that inside, the wall was absolutely heaving.

Personally I prefer being out.

Trad crags do, generally, seem quieter than they were in the past - that said, we had hoards at Vulcan Wall a few weekends back, maybe with the good weather people have been venturing further afield?

As Kev says, Dumby is regularly heaving. Even midweek there are sometimes 2 or 3 pairs sport climbing during the day.

My theory is that the number of climbers interested in things that trad climbing provides hasn't greatly changed, while the number of places to do it, and the ease of travel to such places, has steadily grown. All of which leads to a relative paucity of climbers at more local crags that used to be popular.

However, the popularity of climbing in general has soared in recent decades, now attracting a great many people for whom sport climbing and bouldering are a better psychological match - not to mention that those disciplines are the ones in the Olympics and the ones available at most indoor centres.

All of which leads to the impression that climbers have changed allegiance, but that doesn't necessarily follow because to a large extent trad climbers are still for the most part trad climbing, and new people are getting into trad climbing all the time - just in smaller numbers than for sport climbing and bouldering.

I think tourism or use of the outdoors in general has changed. On skye recently literally hundreds at Clunie for photo of fenced in Highland cattle, then the castle, fairy this and that all rammed, hundreds. Cuillin ridge start to An Dorus and I saw a pair and two 3s (guided) a few more in a corries on routes but overall quiet I'd say.

I think there is undoubtedly much truth in this. But I'm not sure it's the whole truth. Choices for trad are fairly constrained around Dundee, especially for the summer after work climb. Dunkeld options are close enough to get a good few routes in and I'm struggling to think of similar options. Tullimet a little further but doable. Aberfeldy  venues really pushing it. Clova or East coast sea cliffs too much travel, not enough climb. Yet Dunkeld has been incredibly quiet despite great weather. And when it's too late to get to Dunkeld, Kirrie Hill for a few bolts has been dead. I suspect the growth in bouldering could be part of this, but sport climbing venues have also been really quiet too.

Perhaps the shift, or perhaps this is what you mean, is that people are getting away much more for a week abroad and that is enough of a fix to make the evening climb not worth it?

To my mind there seems to be fewer obsessives at least in this part of the world!!!

I think there's a lot of truth in what both you and John are saying.

I've often heard people saying that trad Peak limestone was more popular in the 80s than it is now. I think that's partly because, nowadays, if you've got a whole day free and you live in Sheffield you'll be tempted to go to Yorkshire limestone instead because, quite frankly, it's better.

And I think there's also a tendency now to prioritise whole days or weekends away at crags a bit further afield (as well as week long climbing holidays) over evening cragging at venues you're probably bored of by now if you've lived in the same place for a while.

I've been avoiding Dunkeld for several years now as it was simply too busy whenever I went there! Used to go regularly from Glasgow but having to 'take a ticket' to get on the rock (at least at Upper Cave) and waiting forever between climbs just made it no fun and certainly not worth the drive.

I no longer do trad but there are plenty of good, new, sport venues that have been developed in the last 5-10 years that should be within striking distance for you. 

I was at Dunkeld on a friday a few weeks ago and it was fairly busy. Possibly because a club from Stirling was there and also it had chucked it down everywhere the day before.

Last year we went to Cave Crag and it was absolutely heaving with folk on the sport and trad.

Interesting. We have done a fair bit in upper cave crags recently. Not a single other trad climber any of the days or evenings we have been. There was one other climbing pair turn up at lower cave crags once, just as we were finishing. However, there have on several occasions been other climbers on the upper cave sport routes. Indeed, mostly the same set of climbers on separate occasions!

What!? Tell me you've never been to Horseshoe Quarry without telling me you've never been to Horseshoe Quarry! God's chiselling. A love-letter to resource extraction. 

I go to the Dunkeld crags quite a lot, and would say that the sport routes at Upper Cave are as busy as ever, but the trad routes there are quieter.  Polney is as popular as ever, especially the easier routes, but strangely the sport routes at Myopics have been very quiet this year.

Is it even better than Stannington Ruffs?

So much choice it’s literally raining limestone there!

Got to be partly luck of the draw. Polney was unsurprisingly pretty busy a few Saturday's ago. Kirrie makes a good winter venue; maybe it will get busier again now the nights are starting to draw in.

Busy posting on UKC.