UKC

Off to Arran soonish and would like as light a load as possible given my lockdown induced lack of stamina. 

Is it a 50m or could I get away with a 30?

In reply to Kid Spatula:

You don't need to abseil on the A' Chir do you? I haven't done it since I was a teenager but we never used a rope.

In reply to Removed User:

Most guidebooks seem to recommend it...

In reply to Kid Spatula:

I've done the route twice south to north in the last 2 weeks and there was a 2nd set of tat below the single peg used for the main abseil line. Therefore if you re-belay at the lower tat a 30 i believe would be fine. I down climbed as far as the 2nd tat on my first crossing (solo) thinking it was just another down climb having not realised I'd passed the step thinking it was insignificant. i didn't actually inspect the 2nd tat, (so probably best to take a knife and some replacement just in case), this was because i promptly climbed up and used the normal scramble decent which was my only option as i was on my own. On the 2nd time with a friend we used a 50 rope and we backed up the single peg and apparently there was loads of rope left. I removed the back up for the peg and down climbed as before. Going up the ridge on other side either we missed the easy way or it was just as hard as my friend requested the rope for backup.

In reply to Kid Spatula:

Really?

First time I did it was with a group of maybe six or eight, one adult and the rest of us fifteen or sixteen years old who climbed Vdiff/severe. We did it going away from Cir Mhor but there was only one awkward move. Since then I did it a number of other times in both directions.

In reply to Removed User:

Lots of people used to use makeup with arsenic in it and drink water from leadpipes.

In reply to Kid Spatula:

And the 'daft analogy of the week' award goes to...

More usefully it depends on your ability and confidence. It's probably a few moves of vdiff to down climb, if you've got a few grades in had then no problem. The guides probably suggest an abseil because lots of people doing it won't be confident doing that.

In reply to Kid Spatula:

I've done it twice and not felt the need to abseil, but if you aren't used to granite, or to *hard* scrambling (i.e. a wee bit of easy climbing, unroped), it could be quite daunting. So as I don't know you or who you may be with, I wouldn't want to say it's ok without a rope - it isn't really very hard, but it isn't a place to get gripped or panicky.

I'm not certain of the length, but it might be worth considering that if at least one person there is confident doing a couple of moves of diff or thereabouts on granite, a 30m rope would be plenty to allow them to keep any others safe, before doing it unroped theirself (or after, if going up it).

If that doesn't sound great, just take a 50m half rope and revel in the extra exercise, it's probably good training for something!

In reply to Kid Spatula:

The down climb is pretty straight forward allthough not very easy to find from above and requires a confident approach but when you're on it is obvious if you're a competent climber you probably don't need to ab. Saying that if you cant downclimb your stuck as theres not an easy way round.

If you ab down the downclimb off the side 30m would be ok I rekon, if you ab off the end of the ridge (much more obvious) then you probably need a longer rope. Saying that I didn't get the rope out so cant be sure!

In reply to DaveHK:

When the first response to a straightforward question is the standard  UKC "when I were a lad back in 1893 we used to climb it wearing horse shoes and dressed as a pantomime horse" then forgive me for being flippant.

I know you can downclimb it, and I probably will. That's not what I was asking. I'd like to take a rope because I haven't climbed much the last year for some reason and haven't climbed granite for years. If that's okay?

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In reply to Kid Spatula:

30m of rope and 30m of paracord (or some form of accessory cord etc etc)  is lighter than 50m of rope and you can [retrievably] ab further than a 50m rope with that. If you're planning to carry a rope anyway but wanted to save weight on 50m... just saying...

In reply to Kid Spatula:

The beauty of web forums is that you get responses that you didn't expect but sometimes ego or a rigid mindset get in the way of appreciating that.

In reply to DaveHK:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/logbook/r/index.php?i=942

In reply to Kid Spatula:

Complete rubbish. Everyone and their dogs did it years before that and in rollerscates too. You have any idea how hard it was getting dog rollerscates back then? They were a week's wages each - and that means per foot.

Phah..the youth of today, coming here asking about ropes, you don't know how easy you've got it.

In reply to Kid Spatula:

You wanted a light a load as possible, Eric gave you the lightest possible and experienced option. 

> I'd like to take a rope because I haven't climbed much the last year for some reason and haven't climbed granite for years. If that's okay?

That wasn't what you asked before Eric replied 

In reply to JoshOvki:

What? By implication I was carrying a rope. The rest isn't relevant.

In reply to Kid Spatula:

Of course it is, you asked some questions

with a statement 
> would like as light a load as possible given my lockdown induced lack of stamina

To me Eric responded pretty reasonable with you don't need to abseil which ticks the abseil length 0, the rope length 0 and matches in with your light a load as possible.  ¯_(ツ)_/¯

In reply to Kid Spatula:

It is downclimable, but quite exposed.

A 30m rope will also get you down in two steps, without any great complexity.

Have done it a couple of times. Either down climb 5m (or ab it) and ab from a thread a bit to the right (facing in), or ab further down to the bigger ledge and downclimb the awkward bit (which is awkward rather than technical and not what I'd call a chimney).

In reply to Kid Spatula:

Its quite intimidating looking down the down climb but is a hell of lot easier than it looks. I was once in a group that did it with no ropes with a 7 year old in the party. Late 1980s before anyone reports me.

I also did A chir traverse in winter conditions (1984). Made the mistake of trying it North to South. Took an age and got to the end of the ridge in the dark. Quite a nightmare one torch between us, a jammed rope and we lost the swing ball pole. (still up there i think)

In reply to Kid Spatula:

IIRC a 17m rope, a few slings and a shoelace or belt got me down with a small jump.  30m should be fine.

Once you're down and walk around to see the down climb you'll probably agree the down climb was easier but unless you've seen it first it looks dodgy from above because you cannot see the holds.