UKC

Does anyone know where to get hold of a rope ladder suitable for use as a Bachar Ladder? I'm trying to persuade my school [which has a climbing and bouldering wall ] to get one. They can't be bothered to find where to get one from themselves, and so have lumbered me with the job.
Any help would be great.
Ta

In reply to Matt: your school has a climbing wall!! you lucky lucky b*****d!!! :-p

In reply to andy r: yeah, we have a climbing wall. Its not that brilliant - 12 different sections with routes from 4c to 6a [English]. The 6a is very debateable tho, cos its about ten times more difficult than any other 6a I've tried! Myself and another climber feel it is at least a 6c, maybe even a 7a! Honestly, some routesetters...

In reply to Matt: yeah but hey you cant complain tho!

In reply to andy r: very true, i cant really complain.

seriously tho, can anyone help me find a rope ladder!

In reply to Matt: no i cant help by the way! but at least im keeping the thread near the top for you!!

In reply to andy r: ta very much! maybe someone might notice it apart from you! :P not that im complaining or anything

In reply to Matt: yeah well at least we might end up a bit hgiher in the top 40 tommorow at any rate!
I've got to go to work soon though so you'll have to post on your own to kepe it up at the top- sorry!

In reply to Matt: Can I join the party? How about you make your own rope ladder, all you need is a length of rope, some rungs, and a few knots tied on the rope. Simple. Otherwise, the only places I can think of would be toy manufacturers perhaps? James

In reply to Matt:
i have built a couple and i would say bear in mind how you do the knots that hold the rungs. As you get stronger you might want to increase the extension between the rungs and undoing old knots that have been loaded for a few months is about Fb7c

In reply to baby herman: what type of rope do u suggest for making the ladder out of? Also, what sort of knots do you feel are most suited to the construction, and how wide/thick should the rungs be?

In reply to Matt: Use an old 9mm rope, good thick broom handle, cut to 4-5" sections, drill carefully and tie overhand knots around the hole incorporating part of the shaft. This method is strong and easy-ish to untie. Experiment a bit with it to get knots right and drilled hole as small as poss to leave most wood.

In reply to Matt:
Use static Rope. So there is as little bounce in the overall ladder as poss'

cheers
kev

In reply to Kev Wynne: umm, isnt 9mm static going to cost quite a bit? 50m is going to set me back at least 60 quid! For someone who is supposed to be trying to save for a trip to Stanage, that might not be possible
Any other alternatives?

In reply to Matt:
me n jerry trained using bachar ladder at foundry.
to make the 'bars' use plastic piping - the type for drains etc on your house. needs to be quite wide diameter, so that you dont get evil callouses. if for yourself make sure that you measure to full 'lock', ie your nips.

In reply to andy bowie: is the plastic kinder on your skin than wood? surely you wouldn't get such a good grip tho? [i'm probably wrong]all the photos i've seen of them show wooden rungs.

In reply to Matt:
vital that you use climbing tape over bars. works really well. its easier and lighter to use than wood.

In reply to andy bowie:
I see now. How effective did you find them as a training supplement?

In reply to Matt:
I was just reading through some old climbing media and saw that bachar ladders are notorious for injuries...whats the story there?

In reply to Sharkey Boy: i think the injuries bit is how exactly you use them. if your descending as well you have to make sure you dont fall onto your elbows and keep good form all the time, but i dare say theres more to it than just that.

In reply to andy r:

ok, i've tried making a prototype ladder with a short length of 9mm rope [a 5m offcut] and found that when I tied the overhand knots to hold the rungs in place there was a huge gap between the knot the rung was resting on and the one above it. Also, I couldn't get the knots aligned and my mini-ladder ended up being crooked

Are there any other knots that you can use to hold the rungs in place?

Sharkey Boy

In reply to Sharkey Boy: Theyre notorious for injuries because they are a very intense excersise. And befor they were properly understood people like jerry got badly injured. The mistake early bachar ladder users made was to use it as a suplement to climbing rather than view a bachar session as a complete session. Basically you either climb or ladder, not both.

Simple case of over training

I think though that along with campussing and deadhanging the dangers of laddering are exagerated and if used sparingly are a great tool for building strength and power.

pj

In reply to PaulJ:

So a typical week session could be something like:

day 1: climb
day 2: bachar laddering
day 3: climb
day 4: campus boarding
day 5: climb
day 6: deadhanging
day 7: rest

DO you think thats ok PJ, or do u reckon that's a bit much for a week?

In reply to PaulJ:

So a typical week session could be something like:

day 1: climb
day 2: bachar laddering
day 3: climb
day 4: campus boarding
day 5: climb
day 6: deadhanging
day 7: rest

Do you think thats ok PJ, or do u reckon that's a bit much for a week?

Sharkey Boy

In reply to Sharkey Boy:

Sounds like far too much for one week. As you're only 16 you don't want to screw your tendons already.

However if you've built up progressively over a long period of time to do this then it may be OK. You need at least 1 more rest day, probably on day 3.

In reply to willyb:

I'd take out the deadhanging, unless you have a v high boredom threshold. Maybe work on this after you've finished a cycle of laddering or campussing. Plus day 4 on the campus board? You want to feel fresh to get the most out of that - I'd barely do 1-2-3 4th day on!

In reply to willyb:

Yeah, i think that's probably too much for me anyway. I'll probably cut it down to something like:

day 1: deadhang
day 2: climb
day 3: bachar ladder
day 4: rest
day 5: climb
day 6: campus board
day 7: rest

How does that sound?

Sharkey Boy

In reply to Sharkey Boy:

Don't ask me, I've never been that serious about my training, or climbing. I would say though that I find the best way to get good at climbing is time spent climbing, prefferably on rock, doing routes. The extra confidence and technique gained will be of far greater benefit. Also, think about the type of climbing you want to do, lot's of Campus boards and Bachar ladders will be great for steep, overhanging routes, mainly found on limestone, but it appears to take up too much focus of your training.

Some people go all the rage at doing loads of pull-ups, but that is no good 'cos you only end up being really good at pull-ups. I can only do 3 and steep stuff really is not my forte, but i haven't found it much of a hindrance in winter or outdoors, you just have to select your route better. Therefore I don't do overhanging stuff, but i'm happy with that.

In reply to Sharkey Boy: Rest MORE...!! Seriously, excercises like Campusing, laddering, and dead hangs are very intensive. You need to have at least one full days rest after any of these sessions.

If youyr going to use these excersises as training tools then you have to accept that you cannot climb very much.

I havent trained much on ladders but my experience of deadhanging in the last year and how to use it might help.

When it was rainy and cold last february , i would replace a trip to the climbing wall with a finger strength session where i wouild do fingertip pullups and deadhangs both with extra weight on my back. I kept this up once or twice a week for abotu 6 weeks.

One afternoon when the good weather had arrived i went out to a local crag and my finger strength was just amazing(to me anyway)!!

I think what was important was that i rested more to compensate for the nature of the intense trining my fingers were going through, which is why i think you need more rest if youre going to use excersises such as these.

Theses no need to train every day....have some patience and the strength will come.

Also its worth mentioning that your overall climbing will improve so much more if you get out to as many different crags as possible abd get some milage in on proper hand and footholds....

check out neil greshams training tips on climbing media site

hope this helps

PJ

In reply to Sharkey Boy: You don't get stronger when you are training, you get stronger when you are resting, when your body is rebuilding itself to overcome the challenge you gave it during exercise.

Basically, if you don't rest enough you'll completely cock it all up and you'll be wasting your time. Ask anyone with knackered tendons or ligaments.

In reply to PaulJ:

Thanks for all this input, it's really helpful. I definitely don't want to muck up any tendons badly, so I will do as you all sayu and train slightly less.
I'm currently doing a bit of deadhanging [once a week] and it helps quite a bit, especially if I don't climb for a couple of days afterwards...

Thanks again everyone!

Sharkey Boy

In reply to Sharkey Boy who detailed some hideous injury causing 'training regime' :

Effin ell Shrkey. Go easy geezer. I did too much Judo, Rugby and Sprinting when I was your age, and I've had shagged knees for 16 years as a result! You don't stop growing till you're at least 19, and you can seriously distort your limbs and f**k your joints for life by overdoing it too early.

G

In reply to Graham:

I've already got f**cked up knees, wrist, fingers... All from playing in goal when I was at junior school. I broke both wrists [on two different occasions] and dislocated a couple of fingers, as well as totally messing my knees up, and then got pressed into doing rugby for the first three years of secondary school until they realised they were making my 'injuries' worse...

Thanks to climbing [im not joking, im deadly serious] my 'injuries' are much better, and I haven't had any more gip for ages. I've been told by the instructor at school that he thinks I'm extrememly talented at climbing, and reckons I should try and pursue it to the max. I just thought I'd try and get my strength and fitenss up a bit more.

BUT...i havent started this regime yet - I need to biuld the bachar ladder / campus board / deadhanging holds first! Anyway, the purpose of this thread was to get an idea about what this kinda training involved, and thanks to your responses, I now have a really good idea as what to expect.
Thanks again all,

Sharkey Boy

In reply to Sharkey Boy:

I was just wondering what kind of level your climbing at...??

I dunno you might be super fit and strong but the excercises we have been talking about are really kind of high end excercises.
I really wouldnt bother campussing or dead hanging until you can boulder at least 6b.

This was the advice given to me by the OTE training guru Matt Smith.

Maybe you are at this level i dont know.....but until you are bouldering this kinda level your best tool for getting strong should be real rock.

Get some milage in on problems....just go out and seek problems with small holds and crappy foot holds....work on them...do them...and repeat them.........know what i mean.....??...get some milage in on realy rock first.....

This will be better for you in the long run by improving your technique and these brain engram things....

good luck

PaulJ

In reply to PaulJ:

I'm not quite at the 6b bouldering stage - probably at about 5c at the moment. Trouble is, its difficult for me to get to some decent real rock without getting a lift from one of my parents - i live in the middle of no-where, and public transport is rubbish.

The only place I rely on at the moment is my school wall, but they don't change any of the probles round as its too much hassle for them. I've taken to making my own boulder routes up using small holds and crappy footholds - it works quite well for me.

I agree with you about the doing real rock - that's why I'm going up to Stanage in August with a couple of friends, and also up to Lancashire in September, and possibly Font next Easter.

I just thought that it might be quite good if I had access to some training equipment / techniques at home, cos it would be easier than spending three hours on a bus going to the local wall / crag.

Anyway, your help is very appreciated. Thanks all

Sharkey Boy

In reply to Sharkey Boy: Well If your comming up to the peak in august consider that its gonna be warm. If you want to get some seroius climbing in, dont bother going out in the mid-day sun. This summer so far I havent started climning until about 6pm at night...!

Wait till the rock is cooler.....youre wasting youre time other wise......
Unlss of course you want a suntan...and no skin at all left on your fingers..!!

PaulJ

In reply to PaulJ:

Hmm, I could do with a suntan - I have very pale skin [much to the amusement of people at school ] Seriously though, that's a very good point you've brought up, I didn't think of that one!
Thanks

Sharkey Boy