UKC

Hi 

I am not sure if this is the right forum for this but here it is anyway.

I have heard good if not great things about Track of the Cat (E5 6a) at  Roaches Skyline and will probably check it out on my trip.

If the route was highballed, what grade would you give it?

S

Probably something like Lithuanian 7, or Antarctic G5.

But that's just a guess.

Post back with your own impressions after you've done it.

That brings back distant memories, late 1980s I think. Can't be very hard boulder grade-wise coz I got up it and I've always been a terrible boulderer. Surprised it still gets an E grade, it's really quite short. Seem to remember a long reach was helpful, which maybe explains how I managed to do it. Also remember peering at the holds from the top. Does that cancel the onsight?

Yes but good effort.

V3/V4. But don't expect to hit your pad if you fall off, and don't expect to walk again either.

Check out Theo's Patch (f3+) it's probably a more reasonable proposition!

Its not technically that hard, about Font 6a+, but it's a long way up for a highball.

Will do. 

Hi Tom.

Great effort. 👍🏻

You should probably do this one before any deadlifting, just to keep plenty of spring in your legs for the landing.

Not track of the cat but if you want to simulate Wings of Unreason (E4 6a) on the same wall Flight Exam (f5) is great fun.

I thought it was around those grades myself.

Hi Graham 

Will check out the problem.

S

This slab is fine to highball provided you employ the correct sliding technique:
youtube.com/watch?v=gvy4hUFuJiY&
(any excuse to repost this video)

One of the best nuggets of advice I’ve ever read here 😂

It will be a doddle.

Ha! Was that you? 

I once fell the whole length of the slab, after coming well short of the final hold with a half-hearted dyno. My gear did hold, but the requested armfuls of slack meant I shot off the bottom of the slab, kissed the ground, and the swing back in and attempt to brace the impact took a fingernail off ... the day before a month's climbing trip to Provence. 

Serious answer. 

It's still E5, just a solo? 

No, I was 'belaying'. Or standing nearby and watching as the ground broke Guy's fall as it turned out😅 

I think it was probably your experience that put me off trying this, although I've never toproped it in the increasingly vain hope I might still attempt the onsight one day.  Gary keeps saying it's easy but I'm much more your dimensions than his! 

According to UKC and Western Grit, it is still E5 - but bear in mind my copy of Western Grit is not the latest version.

Nick Dixon 

mark s

I look forward to send footage.

Thanks.

I'm looking forward to posting it here.

Is Art Nouveau still E6 or has it been turned into a Highball at f7B/V8?

Yes.

Here Art Nouveau (E6 6b) is E6 6b but my version of Western Grit is E6 6c.

IMHO, if it was Highballed it would be V7 or f7A+.

S

Who gives a shit? Or, more seriously, why do you give a shit? On the Walter Mitty grading scale, I'd probably give it a WM9.7a - but who cares?

To be serious for a micro-second: this route is out of your reach - if you actually got on it, you would wind up getting hurt. So why not forget about all this fantasising crap, and just get out climbing routes which are feasible for you? It's not a competition: it's just supposed to be fun.

Good luck, and best wishes. Over and out.

Nobody's forcing you to read Sav's posts. 

I'm delighted Sav came into my life. He is a complex character and I would never post like he does but he is mainly fun and mostly harmless. I helped him get up some outdoor climbs and problems with some lovely encouragement from others who were there.

His posts do seem to trigger nasty responses from those who should know better. Where his posts break site guidelines the moderators remove them like they would with anyone else.

Hi Steve.

Thanks for climbing with me, I might be back in N. Wales sooner than you think due to someone that I met at a workshop.

I am writing up blog post about our trip to Bus Stop Quarry and Union Rock.

Yep, I have had some threads removed.

Sav

Yes, some folk must be quite easily wound up. I mainly find his threads amusing!

Hi Sav,

Don't let the haters grind you down.

Climbers speculating about the grades of routes which are way out of their league is, and always has been, a great topic of conversation.

Peace people…

Pete.

No idea how hard it is numerically but it's clearly very droppable, a mate of mine who's very good at that type of route tried to talk me into it once before admitting the rope does catch you... just. It's a bone breaker without the rope.

Why?

Jk

Thanks Michael. 👍🏻

Hi Pete.

I won't.

Yes. It is a great topic.

Sav

From what I've seen on the photos here, smearing and palming are involved. Would that mate happen  be a tall Irish chap? 

Please can you clarify what the why is for.

Sav

Highball grades are funny things, I think there's often a misconception that if a climb says 'highball' next to it in the guidebook you can essentially treat it as a boulder problem but you might want to bring an extra mat.  In some cases this might be true in others it essentially means its a harrowing solo where no matter how many pads and spotters you have you are going to badly hurt yourself. Compare two routes described as highballs like Dreamboat (f7A) with Thumbelina (E7 6c) both get similar font grades but two very different propositions!

I like this style of climbing (dispite the fact that being crap at it has left me with, albeit minor, permanent joint damage) and I have to very carefully assess the hight of the crux, the climbing positions and the landing before deciding what any given grade really means. Routes like art nouveau with pads are neither boulder problems, nor trad routes but a bit of both and really hard to put in a neat box for grade and style. The question you need to ask yourself is can I climb 7A when the consequences of failure will likely result in smashed ankles. For most climbers (and most 7A boulderers) the answer to this is no (which probably means the trad grade is a better indicator of is a particular climb for you or not)

Do you remember Pete was one of the group cheering you on on those Burbage North Mods you climbed?

Yes I do and his name sounded familiar

Are you refering to the dangerous landing from a fall?

Sav

I'll answer your question - the same as it is now.

Now you need to answer what the grade would be - in your opinion - if it was

Mothballed

Softballed

Blue-balled

Or Bazballed

What'dya think?

If there are moths on your pads, I would give it V1.

If it were blue balled I would give it V2.

Sav

From a coaching and technique perspective, is having good ankle flexion the key to hard smearing and can it be improved?

The photo below is from a 6a toprope that I attempted.

I stood on first volume hold with both feet and utilised the second volume as a handhold a in a few ways. 

S.

P S The holds are directly above each other.

My (ignorant) guess is that things such as good ankle flexion just nudge ability up a notch. A top slab climber would do better than someone like me, even if they had their ankles strapped to totally inflexibility.

I suppose it is necessary to move in such a way that the feet are at all times pressed onto and  not off the holds. That entails a sense of balance specific for the climbing movements. It is also about committing even when it feels as though you're just going to skate off.

Much as I loathe drones, I found this video of no-handed climbing Chalkstorm inspiring.  youtube.com/watch?v=9yCaSpCdAgo&t=101

I realise no-handed climbing is probably not quite the same. But I imagine it largely provides a sterner test of the same underlying skills.

My guess is that the best approach is just lots of trying to climb challenging slabs and watching and copying others on them. 

Good dorsiflexion -the ability to flex your foot upwards so your toes get closer to your shin- helps to keep your soles flat on smears as you move upwards. In other words, to keep your heels low - as the heel rises, you are peeling your sole away from the slab and are more likely to shear off the holds.

It’s a good ability to have for slab climbing. https://www.919spine.com/blog/dorsiflexion

About E5! 

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/roaches_skyline-798/track_of_the_c...

It's just a long way down from the top!

The 'why' was wondering what you are going to do with the opinions offered.

Jk

Amusing story, mate once set off this with a fairly gung ho attitude, christ hes up for it I thought....his Mrs was belaying who was much smaller than him. He gets to top section and starts to wobble with a bit of concern in his whimpered 'watch me...', his wife voices concern to me so I tie her down to minimise the now 50/50 chance of hitting the ground with stretch. He does it and gets himself sorted at top, I second and on topping out he turns to me and says 'wouldnt argue if you gave that E2' ........

'eh, what do you think you've just done' I reply

'wild thing.....' he says

'ummm thats over there' as I point to the near distance 

Johnny Dawes love bo hands climbing and he did tell me to.gine ago at a climbing wall. It may have been part of one of Coach Ed units I did for the coaching scheme.

Too right. I agree.

Sav

Hi

I have looked into exercises for this. What exercises do you recommend for this? There is a lot of information on the internet.

Sav

Hi 

I have read that a good friend can placement is as good as a bolt on a sport route.

Not sure if you have done, could that be says for Dangerous Crocodile Snogging at Ramshaw Rocks as there is a massive cam placement?

S

It should have read:

Hi 

I have read that a good cam placement is as good as a bolt on a sport route.

Hi Sav,

Yoga classes help but I’m hardly qualified to recommend exercises.There are a few climbing physios who might be better placed to do that.

So long as you did a little and often and didn’t stretch excessively you could probably just Google a couple of ankle stretches to improve dorsiflexion.

Any gentle stretch will be better than none

Hi Jonathan.

I used to attend vinyasa flow classes a while ago and I still practice sun salutations. I can ask Andy McVittie for some exercises.

I have googled it again.

Too right. 🙂 👍🏻

Sav

Rather a bit of difference in both technical grade and seriousness with those two (I've soloed one and not even thought about the other - guess which was which 😁), but your tale sounds like it's an excellent example of not reading the guidebook properly and/or making the descriptions fit the rock rather than the other way round - been there, done that.

It's also a good example of how we can sometimes climb much harder routes if we don't realise they're meant to be harder.

I've soloed it. Crux is getting on to the slab. 

I think you need to find routes you will be able to do. 

From top roping diffs to highballing E5 is a fair grade leap.

The skyline has a lot of nice climbs you could enjoy. The rock is the best on grit in some places. Take a bouldering mat and just climb in a great location 

I’m moving back to the Peak in the next month or so (phew!!) and the bouldering from Doxey Pool along to the Far Far Skyline will be one of the earliest parts of my rehabilitation.

Good choice. The rock from art Nouveau is my favourite anywhere. 

We were going to climb at The Roaches together.

Well done mate. So steep pulling then?!

It is fair grade leap.

S

Thanks.

Just to go a tad of topic, finally enough, at Big Depot Leeds I discovered that aretes were my style.

Sav

I'm planning to go midweek on week commencing the 8th - Thursday is my usual.

S

I will see who turns up and how the day goes.

Sav

We were but I don't think I have the training for someone with your needs. I'm ok taking people with experience out but you might need people more suited to yourself. 

I'll gladly climb with you. Nik who I am climbing what I have climbed with before and we met on here, you clubs joining us. You could ask Steve Clarke about climbing with me.

Sav

I'll gladly climb with you. Nik who I am climbing with, I have climbed with before and we met on here, you can join us. You could ask Steve Clarke about climbing with me.

If don't want to come this time, you can come, maybe next time.

Sav

Hi Sav... People will be making a choice to volunteer to help you and if they regretfully think they can't cope with your disabilities you have to take their concerns seriously.  It's best to be upfront about these, with anyone volunteering, privately, as you may end up meeting and not being able to do much.

Hi Steve.

No worries. Will do.

Did you get my email? 

S

No.  Checked spam, not there either. You can email through my profile here as well.

Well good luck with whatever you try, I hope you enjoy it.

Jk

That is funny and strange. I sent it on the 24 August.

Sav

I have emailed you through your profile. Did you receive anything?

S