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Unbroken: an astounding climbing podcast

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 George Ormerod 19 Oct 2018

https://fortheloveofclimbing.com/2018/08/15/1-unbroken/

This is an astonishing podcast about an amazing woman who survived brutal sexual assault within the climbing community.

 gribble 19 Oct 2018
In reply to George Ormerod:

That was very powerful, and inspiring.  Thanks for posting.

 stp 19 Oct 2018
In reply to George Ormerod:

I read the transcript. Interesting story and a difficult and complicated issue. The big problem with rape is the lack of any independent witnesses so for an independent observer it becomes one person's word against the other. So I can understand why she wouldn't report it to the Police or go public. But I struggle to understand why she wouldn't confide in a close friend after the initial rape.

I was also surprised to hear that she felt pity for him and hoped he could be rehabilitated. My understanding of sociopathy/psychopathy is that it's that it's a pretty intractable condition and probably congenital. What society does with such people seems a really difficult issue with no obvious answer. Of course they can do time for a specific crime but what then when they're released? They're still psychopaths.

Still I think it's incredibly brave of her and a great effort to come out and speak publicly about her experiences.

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In reply to stp:

You can hear the podcaster discuss this on most recent Enormocast (also an excellent climbing podcast). Apparently it’s not uncommon for sexual assault victims to, paradoxically, experience some sympathy for their abuser. 

In reply to stp:

Here’s Kathy (the podcaster) on the Enormocast:

https://enormocast.com/2018/09/episode-160-kathy-karlo-goes-deep/

 timparkin 20 Oct 2018
In reply to George Ormerod:

> You can hear the podcaster discuss this on most recent Enormocast (also an excellent climbing podcast). Apparently, it’s not uncommon for sexual assault victims to, paradoxically, experience some sympathy for their abuser. 

I think you have to try to have any other emotion than hate. Feeling sorry/pity for your accuser positions them as weak victims and your experience as a side effect of their own problems. If you feel hate for them it makes them more powerful and scarier. 

Confiding is a tough one - read about a lot of cases and equally as many women as men doubt accusations and not wanting to lose a friend is probably the more powerful emotion. 

Whilst there may be a genetic component of sociopathy, there is still a massive amount of environmental influence and, as such, perhaps we should feel pity for some of the criminals out there for not only their genes but also there upbringing. Otherwise, we have to believe that perfectly ordinary, decent people just decide to be sociopaths one day. 

I personally find it peculiar that a victim will still socialise with their aggressor but there is so much evidence for this behaviour that it can't be doubted and makes the crime all the more abhorrent for it's sustained and perverse nature.

 stp 22 Oct 2018
In reply to timparkin:

> I think you have to try to have any other emotion than hate. Feeling sorry/pity for your accuser positions them as weak victims and your experience as a side effect of their own problems. If you feel hate for them it makes them more powerful and scarier. 

That's an interesting point and I can how how that would work.

 

> Confiding is a tough one - read about a lot of cases and equally as many women as men doubt accusations and not wanting to lose a friend is probably the more powerful emotion.

I'd have thought a close friend would never doubt what their friend is telling them about such a serious matter. I wondered if they fear the friend just getting angry then doing something they don't want them to, like going to the police?

 

 

 

Deadeye 23 Oct 2018
In reply to stp:

> probably congenital

which usage of the word (before I disagree with you)?!

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 slab_happy 23 Oct 2018
In reply to stp:

> I'd have thought a close friend would never doubt what their friend is telling them about such a serious matter.

You'd think, but it certainly happens, especially in situations where the abuser is also a friend of the person being told and widely liked and respected in the community.

No-one wants to believe that someone who seems like such a nice person could be a rapist. Which is often what enables people to go on with predatory behaviour for years.

> I wondered if they fear the friend just getting angry then doing something they don't want them to, like going to the police?

I think there can be a huge range of possible reasons. Some people go into shock and try to cope by continuing with their life as if nothing happened. Many people feel ashamed or unable to talk about it. Some people are afraid they won't be believed (even if they might be). People who've been massively traumatized frequently don't react in "logical" ways.

 Hutson 23 Oct 2018
In reply to stp:

> That's an interesting point and I can how how that would work.

> I'd have thought a close friend would never doubt what their friend is telling them about such a serious matter. I wondered if they fear the friend just getting angry then doing something they don't want them to, like going to the police?

in my 20s I used to have an ex who would become violent and aggressive every time he got drunk. And then be sheepish, nice and apologetic the next day.

Not only did part of me strongly want to pretend it wasn't really happening (he never did anything to leave visible bruising or cuts), part of me was deeply ashamed I was being so pathetic as to put up with it and blamed myself. Telling someone would also have made it more real.

So I never told anyone a thing, and I'm not generally backward in coming forward about things but this felt different.

When I mentioned the ex's behaviour in passing to a friend recently (ex is long since dumped when I eventually found the strength, and I'm now married to someone who is the complete opposite so it all seems safely far away now) they were absolutely stunned, almost but not quite, to the point of disbelief.

So I can understand her not telling anyone.

 Timmd 24 Oct 2018
In reply to slab_happy:

> I think there can be a huge range of possible reasons. Some people go into shock and try to cope by continuing with their life as if nothing happened. Many people feel ashamed or unable to talk about it. Some people are afraid they won't be believed (even if they might be). People who've been massively traumatized frequently don't react in "logical" ways.

I get the impression there can be a kind of 'internal disconnect' happening, where the memories of what happened are too much to deal with, so they're blocked out or the person goes into denial of the reality of their life.

The self blame apparently can stem from wanting to have a sense of being able to have controlled what happened to a certain degree, if you blame yourself - you could have done something about it, but if you wholly accept it wasn't your own fault you have to accept how powerless you were too, how without any agency during something very intimate and invasive happening.

Post edited at 01:45
 stp 24 Oct 2018
In reply to Deadeye:

From birth or nature not nurture. The amygdala, part of the brain to do with fear as I recall, is different in size for instance in psychopaths.


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