UKC

There's probably a couple.of centuries running experience on UKC, maybe someone will know what's up...

I cycle a lot and run in a forest once or twice weekly, usually around 10-15k per sortie.

I've not really 'sprinted' for a decade.

Feeling good the other day, I tried to sprint. Very 'odd' sensation: I felt like someone had grabbed the back of my shirt, and was holding me back. There was no 'elasticity' to my run, no 'bounce'. Anyhow, I kept up my 'sprint' for about 500m at the fastest pace I could manage, but couldn't get to the speeds or 'punch' of my youth. And all the while, someone was dragging on my shirt.

The next day, on one leg (the one that's not missing a calf anyway), had some discomfort at the 'front' of the hip.

I'm thinking that it's just that sprinting uses different muscles to those engaged when just plugging through mud and leaves, and that I  just need the build them up. Perhaps by interval running on the flat? (I already sprint up inclines in the forest anyway, but I'm not covering ground very fast.)

Any thoughts? Have other found the same thing when trying to sprint in middle age?

In reply to MisterPiggy:

"Use it or lose it" applies here as in many other cases.

Yes, sprinting uses different muscle fibres, different muscles, different range of motion and causes different stresses.

Start again  (carefully), but at least you'll be able to enjoy rapid progress (so to speak)

In reply to MisterPiggy

I tried to sprint. Very 'odd' sensation: I felt like someone had grabbed the back of my shirt, and was holding me back.

Was this character dressed in a black cowl with a big scythe over his shoulder?

Seriously though, a similar thing happened to me- lifelong distance plodder- when I joined in a cricket match and tried to sprint to stop a boundary. It was as if my legs didn’t know what to do- they sort of tangled up and I fell on my face. 
Intervals, carefully built up, must be the only way to go.

In reply to Marek:

I think it’s one of the skills that you lose quicker than most others as you get older. My attempts at a “sprint finish” at the local Parkrun are just marginally better than pathetic these days….

In reply to MisterPiggy: It's a skill you need to relearn, and it's not the same as just running 'as per' but faster.

500m is too far, and you're certainly not sprinting.  Warm, up , do some drills, and then try some hills. Steep, and short, maybe 50m and practice pushing off your toes.

If you want to try something on the track, or on the flat, just try to do some 'strides' , where you have a rolling start, and do maybe a 30m or 40m 'sprint' , then run down.  Don't try running fast on the track in heavy shoes as it's harder to make it work properly

In reply to wbo2:

Thanks, I'll try that this weekend.

In reply to wbo2:

There's probably three different things you need to develop for sprinting: Leg speed (cadence), stride length, and power. The stride length is the risky one (from an injury perspective) so that needs to be done carefully.

In reply to Marek: I'd agree with that - you are soon going to find out how robust your hamstrings are

Don't worry about running fast.  Once you've got the technique working , that comes along as a result

In reply to Marek:

You're telling me.

Despite getting on a bit, I like to think I'm quite fit legwise, lot of endurance cycling, walking. I was posted on the wing in a dads vs U13 football match back in June when the ground was rock hard and, as they say, I put in a shift. The following day I almost couldn't walk, and for two or three days afterwards was in considerable pain. So in the dads vs U10s the other day I took it a lot easier!

In reply to felt:

Many years ago when I was running enough to do the occasional half-marathon (sub 1:35) I did a full 90 minutes family v friends match for my dad-in-law's 60th. I was completely knackered afterwards, the stop, start, accelerate, turn, etc is totally different to "steady-state" running.

The only thing my running fitness provided was the ability to last 90 minutes so that I could maximise how sore I'd be once I stopped 😁

In reply to MisterPiggy:

If all you do is long slow runs, then you'll get good at doing long slow runs. It won't greatly help you with shorter faster runs or sprinting or even long faster runs.

It's why one of the basic principles of running training (if your goal is to get faster) is to do a variety of runs. If you can only do 3 runs a week, I think the advice is still basically something similar to:

• 1 long run - slow 
• 1 race distance or thereabouts run - close to or at race pace; i.e. somewhere near VO2 max
• 1 speed session - interval, fartlek

If sprinting (rather than running) is your actual aim then training would be rather different because you're not bothered about developing the muscle/circulation systems for endurance.

So if you've not sprinted for ages, your body will have forgotten how to; regular speed sessions allow you to develop and retain that "knowledge".

Finally, age ☹. Unless you were nowhere near your potential when you were younger, you will not be able to sprint as fast now as you could then. This also applies to distance runs but the decline is less marked and you can greatly delay that decline with sufficient appropriate training (I try not to despair that my interval sprint speed now is not much faster than my best half-marathon pace). 

In reply to MisterPiggy:

There's your answer right there.  I did the same as you maybe 7 years ago, hurt the front of my hip and all.  You're suddenly asking your body to do something pretty full on that it doesn't normally do.  Expect tweaks

The best way I've found to increase sprint power without all the risk of tweaking is to run hills.  Steep sustained runs uphill where you don't even get much out of 1st gear.  Honestly, build up your hill strength and you'll find sprinting on the flats will come.

In reply to MisterPiggy:

Be careful, first lockdown I enthusiastically embraced short sharp hill sprint  intervals. Like you I felt held back. Very quickly after maybe 2 or 3 weeks I polished up my motor skills and sprinting returned to me as fluid and natural, but also seemingly  out of the blue a debilitating achilles injury. Slightly  out of shape men getting back into sprints is the perfect storm for Achilles injury. Not saying you are slightly out of shape in general but for sprinting you definitely are!

Go slowly, the slightest hint of a heel/calf/foot/Achilles issue, back off a bit. Don't get an Achilles issue they are slow to heal a d rehabilitate 

In reply to MisterPiggy:

When younger I wasn't slow in a sprint, but recently I went to rugby training after a long hiatus from the game. I came last in the sprint training after the front row forwards. Use it or lose it like another poster said.

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Wise words. My sprinting is marginally quicker than my plodding, but previous attempts at improvement have ended in injury.

In reply to MisterPiggy:

So, I was out in the forest today for the first time since I posted my query. Thank you all for your wisdom.

I hadn't thought that sprinting would use different muscles from just running - naive of me. I'd not sprinted for years, so yes, shouldn't have been surprised that I couldn't, but I was.

Anyhow, I thought hard about all your comments and did the following.

Legs were feeling good so initial jog/walk/huff/puff was reduced to 1km before settling into my usual fast plod through the mud and leaves. Baloo pleased to get going earlier than usual.

About km 4 feeling good and warmed up, so keeping same cadence (as far as I could tell), lengthened my stride and really paid attention to 'form'. This was on a flattish, dry-ish part of the route. I run with a heel strike, so was really trying to 'pull' myself forward when the shoe was flat on the path. I can't really 'push' off at the end of my stride cos I don't have any muscle in my right calf; pushing off hard on the left would make me twist rightwards on every other step, which I'm sure isn't good for my skeleton/muscles. I held this new stride for about 400m: reaching forward (I could feel the stretch), pulling through (and could feel the tightening in my thighs) and trying 'run tall' and breath steadily. Felt good.

On all the uphills - of which there are many - I increased cadence; on the three really steep inclines, I increased the power - using thighs. At the top of those three sections I was really gasping.

I won't know until next time on the same route if I'm any faster, but it did feel 'faster'. I reckon the long-stride section saw me doubling my speed.

In a few days, I'll try some interval runs on a tow-path. Maybe with a stopwatch to try and be a scientific about all this.

I'll update in six weeks or so, and share any insights gleaned.

Thanks again for all the inputs.

PS. I started bouldering in a gym about two years ago, and was dumbstruck when completely stymied by the many dyno problems that I could just not do. I even made myself a t-shirt with a cartoon brontosaurus at the bottom of a cliff, with the caption: "Daddy don't dino". Now I realise that sprinting/dyno leaps use different muscles than those used to cycle/plod around a forest - doh ! "Use it or lose" has never sounded more apt !

In reply to MisterPiggy:

Don't forget that with intervals the idea is not to do them as fast as possible (i.e. first few fast and them tailing off as you get more and more knackered).

The idea is to be able to do the whole lot at the same pace - it might take a few sessions to find out what that pace is. If you keep on doing intervals then you'll just find that this "same pace" gets faster.

If only I implemented the things that I say ☹

In reply to MisterPiggy:

Anything over 15-20 (some would say anything over 10 seconds) seconds is not a true sprint; yes it's much faster than your average/normal running speed but a full all out sprint. 

True speed training (as opposed to an anaerobic endurance training) needs to involve long rest periods - at least 10 X the work effort e.g. 1.5 to 2 mins for a ten second sprint and only a few max efforts.

In reply to MisterPiggy:

I’m a 45 year old bloke who’s reasonably fit. Used to fell run for years etc etc. 

I tried sprinting in July at my sons last primary school sports day dads race after standing still for two hours watching him do the obligatory egg and spoon and sack race etc. 

I came 2nd and felt like I was flying but really I wasn’t going fast at all. 

Needless to say my left knee and hamstrings are still knackered from it. I regret it hugely. 
I won’t ever sprint again I hope! 
 

In reply to CantClimbTom:

This. This. This.

Be careful! Hill sprints (especially off-road) are great for most parts of your body due to the low impact and high intensity. The strength and speed will come. But watch the Achilles! I know from bitter experience also. Be VERY warmed up and rested before starting. Don't do it more than once a week at first. Pay attention to your calves and make sure they are not tight! This may make an Achilles injury more likely. Lots of sitting (e.g. office job at a desk) is not helpful. Also same advice re. hamstrings and glutes. Yoga focused on running muscles and sports massages useful. Get a standing desk. Etc. Etc.

Good luck!

In reply to Wooj:

Oh yes classic! I embarrassed my kids at sports day by starting slowly and never catching everyone else up to avoid exacerbating a chronic Achilles issue...no way was I going to burst out the blocks! But you're a runner Daddy?! Why were you so slow??? Trying to explain to a 6 year old the difference between 100m sprinting and ultra running isn't easy (or interesting).