UKC

Hi all,
need help from fellow peak district runners on a shoe choice,

specifically for autumn - Spring Pennine way type terrain like the climb up to from Crowden to Blackhill and then the run down to Isle of Sky rd, wet greasy stone flags bits of bog and rock but not real off path stuff.

I get on well with Innov8 stuff ( I use Xtalon Ultras for off path, and parkclaws for road / park stuff). I have a pair of Speedgoats that are on their last legs and need replacing, and was considering Roclites G275, and was wondering if anyone has any experience with them on the above terrain? I know the amazing Jasmin Paris wore a single pair for her record breaking spine race. But I’m sure she could have done it in her slippers!😂.

the Pakclaws I have also have a graphing grip and I have noticed that on wet pavement flags they can be abit slippy sometimes so it didn’t fill me full of confidence on the grip on that kind of rock if the Roclites are the same. 
 

also the lack of a rock plate and the cushioning on the Speedgoats has made me want to look at something abit more precise and less cushioned, hence the look at Roclites, I am happy with the fit of them it is just the grip I am concerned about.

any help or other suggestions greatly received. 
 

thanks Ryan

In reply to Kryank:

I did the Spine Race in 2022 wearing a pair of Roclite 300s - very similar to the G275, just with “standard” rubber - and they were fine on the flags throughout the route. I didn’t fall over in any of the slop either.

I did it again this year and wore the Roclite Ultra G320, to get extra cushioning and protection on hard ground. Also no problems on flags or in slop. They’re heavier and less nimble than the lighter Roclites though - not a problem plodding along on the Spine but maybe the G275 would be better if only a few hours.

Of course this is all at Spine race pace - so jogging - if you’re on the flags when they’re very greasy and pushing the pace, the Roclites will probably slide along with almost everything else. But compared to running on the flags in x-talons, the Roclites are much better. I’ve used them for faster training runs on the PW in winter and not had any problems.

The other shoe I’d recommend for that sort of ground is the La Sportiva Mutant. Mud grip is similar to the Roclite and grip on flags/rock is noticeably better. If Roclites are a good fit, the Mutants probably would be too. Cushioning is roughly between the std Roclite and the Ultra.

In reply to MarkKP:

Hi Mark,

just the kind of response I was after, Thankyou for such a quick a detailed reply. It’s really appreciated.

cheers
Ryan

In reply to Kryank:

I had a few pairs of Roclites and the G275s are as good as anything on wet flags as the studs have a flat base (unlike Mudclaw studs). And I do reckon the graphine is grippier in the wet as well. They’re not very cushioned though and the 8mm drop is quite noticeable. I haven’t really found an equivalent shoe I.e. something with 6mm lugs that’s between an Mudclaw and more of a normal trail shoe, which isn’t stiff/super beefy/heavy. Some of the Sportivas (agree the rubber and lug pattern on the Mutant is good) are worth a look but most have quite high arches and are quite heavy. The Scott fell shoe maybe if it fits you or the VJ Sport if they fit you.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

Thanks for the reply and info mate that’s great.

cheers

Ryan

In reply to Kryank:

I use Bushido 2. They are a lot more supportive if when you run down the ridge to Crowdon from the trig point as they cope with the loose small rocks on the path. Super hard  circular 11 mile route from the Isle of Skyre rd down the ridge to Crowdon and back via Laddow.

In reply to Tom Briggs:

I agree that it’s not easy to find an alternative to the Roclite, that offers a similar balance of all-round grip, cushion, nimbleness, ground feel etc. I’ve been looking because the lacing cradle on the newer Roclites aggravates a long term tib-ant tendon issue I have.

For the OP, this new shoe from Scarpa might be worth a look: https://www.scarpa.co.uk/running-shoes/spin-st/. I’ve not tried them but the lug pattern looks good for rock and mud grip. I’ve got a pair of Spin Infinity and Spin Ultra and have found them to be a similar fit to the Roclite - but I don’t know if the Spin ST uses the same/similar last as the Infinity/Ultra. It looks like it’ll have less cushion and more flexibility. UKC review a lot of Scarpa shoes, so maybe they have it on test now.

In reply to Kryank: I don't get on with Inov8 at all.  Hoka Torrent 3

In reply to MarkKP:

Scarpa are getting close to making decent running shoes but they're just too heavy in my opinion. I bought a pair of Spin Planets for trails and they weighed 382gms in my size 11. They felt like bricks.

The Hoka Zinal 2 looks similar to a Roclite spec, but with 5mm lugs.

In reply to Kryank:

I used to do nearly all my running around Holme Moss, Black Hill and the Wessenden and tried Walshes, Mizuno Wave Harriers, Salomons and a few different Inov8s. I found myself naturally buying pair after pair after pair of Roclites as, for me, they were the perfect shoe for that terrain.

In reply to MarkKP:

I've got a pair in for review at the moment. They're amazing on soft ground, but I wouldn't want to use them on flagstones, partly because of the spiky/low-surface area sole, but mostly because of the minimalist amount of cushioning. They feel quite specialist in light of this - definitely one for the off-piste bog basher and not as suitable for firm surfaces or rocky terrain, as you can feel every stone you step on.

I'd agree with that. Out of the two I think I prefer the Spin Ultra, partly because they've got slightly softer cushioning. The Spin Infinity is quite firm, although this is very much a matter of personal preference. I'd still say that the Mutant is a really strong candidate. I've had a fair few pairs and used them for various big rounds, plus the Spine Challenger earlier this year. Not the lightest, obviously, but superb all-rounders.

The other shoe that I've been reviewing lately is the Scarpa Kalibri ST. This fits within a similar category to the Roclite/Mutant, insofar as it's got a good amount of cushioning alongside a decent amount of grip. I used them for the OMM a couple of weeks ago and they were spot on. 

In reply to Tom Briggs:

Funnily enough I'm just writing up the review for the Spin Planet and covered weight within. That said, my opinion differs a little from yours. Weight-wise they're definitely not light, but I don't think they've been designed to be - they've been designed to be a comfortable/supportive training shoe. Given the level of cushioning I'd never expect them to be anything other than at the heavier end of the spectrum, but I did find them to be supremely comfortable as a result of this - definitely not like a brick.

That said, as always with shoes - it comes down to personal tastes. I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, more than our experiences of the shoe sound very different. 

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Thanks for the reply Rob, I’ll have to try a pair of the Mutants on, I take it you prefer them to the Roclites if you used them on the challenger?

Cheers

Ryan

In reply to compost:

Thanks Mate,

I really appreciate your opinion. I spend a lot of time around Saddleworth / Chew too. 
 

Ryan

In reply to Kryank:

I used to really get on with the Roclites, but the uppers of the last couple pairs I had fell apart, and I went off them after that. 

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Thanks for the info Rob.

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Tbf I never ran in them - sent them back and replaced with Salomon Ultra Glide 2s which I really like. Similarly plush on foot but a bit less bulky and 15% lighter (I'm obsessed with weight, in case you hadn't noticed).

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Thanks Rob for the feedback on the Spin ST, very helpful, another shoe off the list for the next Spine!

I’ll be interested to read your detailed review on the Kalibra ST. Especially the overall fit (I recall you finding fit of the original Ribelle to be high volume) and how the Boa closure affects lace pressure at the front of the ankle (where I have a dodgy tendon that the Roclite is aggravating, so looking for something that spreads the pressure across the whole foot).

In reply to Kryank: I use and rate the old Zinals but if you're going to see a lot of mud use something else.  They're only moderately cushioned also, ergo the Torrent 3 suggestion. They'd work for a lot of the trail running in the UK away from old school fell running

I've never understood the love for Mutants, for me they're very clunky.  But lots like them. 

In reply to Kryank:

For a good range of trail shoes I'd recommend Peak Footwear in Holmfirth.

In reply to MarkKP:

They've refined the fit a lot for the Kalibri ST, so much so that it doesn't feel anything like the Ribelle Run, and in a way - having it associated with the Ribelle Run is a bit misleading. Whilst it's still got a good amount of breadth across the forefoot, they've decreased the volume elsewhere, which gives a much more secure fit. More generally they've just got a much more support, which makes them feel a lot more stable. That said, the one area I've had concerns is in/around the front of the ankle, because the Boa does make them a little less flexible in/around this area, and whilst I haven't had any problems I have felt it.