UKC

I've signed up to the shortest of the UTS races next May (25km / 1300m ascent)*. I've not done anything quite like it, and feeling excited (I know it's ages away)... At the risk of appearing totally naive,  to the more experienced trail/ultra runners (unsure of the terminology):

-What's your advice on training and preparing? (just like training for a normal race, but with more hill reps and trying to get off-road where possible?)

-What else should I be thinking about / doing? I'm keen to put in a good performance and push myself

-Any other top tips?

I have lots of general hill/mountain experience and fitness (and several years of mainly road running, half marathons etc). I'm looking to put in a good training shift through the winter. This might be silly but I'm slightly worried if 25km is going to be too easy, and 50km would be a better challenge (...!).

https://snowdonia.utmb.world/races/ERYRI-25K

What are you aiming for? If you went to jog/walk it tomorrow I expect that you'd manage just fine.

It's on big, mostly surfaced paths so technical stuff isn't a worry so beyond the normal training for a half marathon-ish race the only really specific training you'll need is the ascent and, probably more importantly, the descent.

For most people hill reps mean flogging themselves uphill and jogging down to recover. I'd suggest that you work hard both up and downhill, then rest at the bottom. You can do this over short hill sprints (30sec), intervals (2-5 mins) and, occasionally, find some big hills.

The ascent per km just about sneaks it into a Category A fell race - find a few of these and have a go too: https://www.fellrunner.org.uk/races 

Enjoy!

Sorry almost no experience, but interested. My questions/thoughts may get responses that are helpful.

Do you know if it's realistic for "normal" people to continuously jog all the way up? Or does it end up being a fast pace walk to the top, and then run the rest?

My weekly long run is 20km with about 600m of elevation gain, all on trails with several hills.
The longest hill, albeit them steeper then the Llanberis route, end up with the second half being a walk. Max elevation gain per hill is about 100m I think.

If I was doing your run I think I'm pretty sure I would be walking up, so my training would likely consist of my current regular long run, but I would add a very long hill (maybe 300m of elevation gain) with a heavy bag, and do 5 reps as fast as I can but walking up, and a slow jog or walk down. The idea being to build enough strength and stamina in your legs so you don't toast them on the way up.

If you think you can jog all the way up then I guess your training may be different.

The maths I apply is multiply elevation gain by 10.

So this run is 25km + 13km. Basically a marathon in terms of effort.

Yes

Think about nutrition. If you've never run farther than a road half, you are going to be on your feet for somewhat longer (see comment about time below). If you're not used to eating on the go then you might want to get used to it

If you can find results for previous years (if they exist!) that might give you an idea of how long this might take you. 

A few years ago I did a trail half marathon around Dewentwater. It wasn't particularly hilly, but at one point someone was complaining about the climb, and I thought "this isn't much of a climb" then I remembered that a couple of weeks previously I'd been running over Munros... so if you've got decent hill climbing fitness already you're off to a good start.

I agree with others that working on running downhill as well as uphill is worth the effort - if you can descend well it's "free speed" and if you struggle to descend it is hard work! 

Thank you very much for the tips on hill reps and for the fellrunner link - these look great and exactly what I'm after.

Sounds like Hampstead Heath weekday / weekend hill runs are in order (ok not really a hill, but it's definitely steep and muddy...) and getting out to the actual fells / local hills when I can will go a long way.

That's interesting - I wanted a challenge so nearly signed up for the 50k on the basis a half marathon wouldn't be enough of a step up. But then I remembered the amount of ascent/descent and hoped that the 25km is closer to a marathon in terms of "level of challenge".

Cut off time is 5h30, and last year it looks like the slowest person took 6hrs, but the fastest only took 2 hrs. 5h30 is over 21 min/mile or 2.8mph.

I had initially assumed this must be for someone walking at just under 3mph, but I guess it could equally be a 50/50 split of 2mph walking uphill and 10 min/mile jogging on flats / downhills, which isn't crazy.

Does this therefore suggest that a good strategy in this type of thing is focusing on power-walking up hills at (say) 3mph vs 2mph (50% faster), rather than busting a gut (on the day) to shave a tiny amount off your pace on the flat (say 8:30min/mile vs 10 min/mile, which is just 17.5% faster)?

(Fastest last year, on the other hand, is about 7:45 min/mile average, including all the hills... yikes!)

Thanks for the tips, especially on nutrition and running downhill!

On steep hills I reckon I can walk up them faster than I can run, for the same amount of effort, particularly on rough ground. I think it’s because I can take longer steps, and really push up either with hands pushing down on the knees or poles if using them. Maybe find yourself a steep hill and time yourself for a given effort level (either perceived or using a heart rate monitor)?

If you're in London, don't forget tall buildings - famously someone once trained for a Bob Graham round in a multistorey car park!

Knowing my limitations, this would be my strategy. My heart rate is higher walking up a long hill, than it is jogging on flat. Trying to run 1300m elevation gain would kill me. No idea what walking pace I can maintain, but would like to find out.

I was once really pushing myself to run up Lose Hill in the Castleton fell race and was chuffed at getting near the top still running. Ron Fawcett power-walked past me and jogged over the top and into the distance. I was in the red and he wasn't. His uphill walking speed was incredible and made a huge difference. Definitely do this!

Redhill is really good for trails and some really steep slopes to train on.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hampstead+Heath/@51.2529418,-0.2165457,14...

If you go for the 50, definitely do a flat marathon first, there’s a huge difference (you’ll hit the wall at some point around 30km if you haven’t trained your metabolism to burn fat as well as glucose).

Sorry if I've missed it. But making a trip to walk/run the route will tell you lots. Essentially, what you should try and replicate in training.

Also I believe the last 2 years have been run under extremely hot conditions which caused a high DNF rate due to folk not being able to keep going when totally baked. Not sure how you train for extreme heat whilst training in the UK through the winter, but there we go! Good luck with the training and the race itself.

Definitely echo hhis. Trainng for downhill is really important. Anyone can run uphill - especially on a long continuous climb. You just drop your pace and grind away.

Downhill is hard. It is a combination of strength, technique and bottle. 

The strength (and endurance for long downhills) needs working on because you are taking your weight on compressed quads and then extending the muscles under load. Typically you may find that in traing a big downhill run will give you DOMS when the equivalent uphill would not.

Technique. Try and keep your weight forward and off your heels. This spreads the shock absorption right across your leg muscles rather than on your knees. Keeping your arms wide gives you better balance. As it gets steeper or rougher try and dance down. You can also improve your properception by training yourself to look ahead not at your feet. I used to find running trails in twilight without a torch was great for this.

Finally, bottle. If you are running downhill on a midfoot strike you will be pitched slightly forward. This makes you faster. And you need strength to take the load, good balance and properception so your feet land in the right places, and bottle to hold it all together.

Good luck!

Thank you - this is insightful and genuinely eye opening. I'd assumed running down hill would be the easy bit...! Lots of training to do - very excited and motivated by all the suggestions.

I've spent the last couple of Easter holidays using the hilly roads in Tenerife to get downhill muscles ready for the season - generally walking, fast and breathing hard, uphill then jogging back down. 1000 metres of descent on tarmac road over 10 - 12k distance seems to give the resistance to DOMS and cramp for the rest of the summer. But build up to this slowly, and it killed my race pace on the flat...

Wow this has been interesting. 

I've gone from road half marathons through to a small number of 40-50km events in the Peak, plus overnighty and Munro-baggingy outings. What I have learned, some of it uncomfortably is...

Uphill: beyond a certain angle, lots of fast people walk. Some people run. If you're competitive and you care about biomechanics, you might do better running, but otherwise a walk can be fast and effective. 

Nutrition: you gotta. A physio who had reason to know once told me "at those distances it's basically a picnic with some jogging." Find something you can eat and digest on the go. For me it's pepperami and oatcakes, or peanuts and cheese, plus a few flapjacky things and or jelly babies. Partly because they in small easily-unpackable quantities which don't litter. (Footnote from running into rainy wind - I have learned not to swallow so much air while trying to chew oatcakes and breathe rain/snot/crumbs, because the cramps later are not fun.) 

Salt/rehydration: water obviously. Less obviously, I was having some leg cramps which might or might not have been about salt replacement (probably not at my tiny distances ?) and was trying tailwind and focusing on getting food in. I didn't buy any more tailwind (nothing against it) and I'm none the worse for it so I suspect that for me it's more about....

Cramps: tight calves, initially gastrocs then later soleus (lower down the leg anyway) - significantly looser shoes and rolling with a PVC pipe have sorted me out longer-term. Occasionally tight hips. That's obviously personal/age/lifestyle stuff. If you've got any musculo-skeletal tweaky bits, or you suspect you might, you might want to pay attention to how they react to uphill. I blew my calves up on the Nine Edges a couple of years ago, hobbled a lot of it, and thus have the opportunity to try to take a good chunk out of my time trying again this year... 

Downhill: what they all said made sense. I like running downhill (mwah hah hah) so it didn't matter much to me... equally my comments above may not apply to you !

Y