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That's what it felt like. It's the most frightening thing I've done on skis.
MWIS said "mist, probably clearing later". Clearing later my arse; it got worse all day. And mist my arse; this was full-on white-out fog. You could barely see your own ski-tips.
But you have to get down somehow, so you set a bearing and try and follow it. Except you can't tell how fast you're going, you can't tell what the gradient is under your skis, and above all you can't tell what's coming next. So the motor-control-system that runs skiing for you keeps saying "I don't have the data to do this turn. Abort it. Sit down."
While the module that runs cowardice for me kept saying "I don't care where you think you are, follow that bearing and you're going straight over the edge of Coire an Lochan", so you keep going well left of the bearing and having to correct.
Maybe I'm a chicken but I found that really scary. It was a huge relief when I started hearing climbers and recognised where I was-- in the floor of Coire an-t Sneachda.
Pity really; the snow was first-rate, I just didn't have the conditions to ski it
MWIS said "mist, probably clearing later". Clearing later my arse; it got worse all day. And mist my arse; this was full-on white-out fog. You could barely see your own ski-tips.
But you have to get down somehow, so you set a bearing and try and follow it. Except you can't tell how fast you're going, you can't tell what the gradient is under your skis, and above all you can't tell what's coming next. So the motor-control-system that runs skiing for you keeps saying "I don't have the data to do this turn. Abort it. Sit down."
While the module that runs cowardice for me kept saying "I don't care where you think you are, follow that bearing and you're going straight over the edge of Coire an Lochan", so you keep going well left of the bearing and having to correct.
Maybe I'm a chicken but I found that really scary. It was a huge relief when I started hearing climbers and recognised where I was-- in the floor of Coire an-t Sneachda.
Pity really; the snow was first-rate, I just didn't have the conditions to ski it
In reply to Tim Chappell:
If it's any consolation the afternoon was the same on Aonach Mor. We missed Summit Gully and came down something to the east of it by accident necessitating a skin out. Lucky we brought skins really.
Where did you come down? I'm assuming you're referring to Fiacaill Coire Cas? If not, good skills!
If it's any consolation the afternoon was the same on Aonach Mor. We missed Summit Gully and came down something to the east of it by accident necessitating a skin out. Lucky we brought skins really.
Where did you come down? I'm assuming you're referring to Fiacaill Coire Cas? If not, good skills!
In reply to DaveHK:
Actually, south is probably more like it.
> (In reply to Tim Chappell)
>
> something to the east of it
>
> something to the east of it
Actually, south is probably more like it.
In reply to DaveHK:
I got to approximately NH 998033 (see sheet 36) before I decided things were getting ridiculous and came down.
My exact route down from there, I've not the faintest about, but I realised what was going on (and that I was more or less safe, wasn't going to die, and definitely wasn't anywhere near the top of Savage Slit) by about 994035.
A day to learn lessons from rather than to savour
I got to approximately NH 998033 (see sheet 36) before I decided things were getting ridiculous and came down.
My exact route down from there, I've not the faintest about, but I realised what was going on (and that I was more or less safe, wasn't going to die, and definitely wasn't anywhere near the top of Savage Slit) by about 994035.
A day to learn lessons from rather than to savour
In reply to DaveHK:
Other side of the corrie: Fiacaill Coire an t-Sneachda (I think that's the name but it's not named on the 1:50K). Anyway, it's the flat-topped eminence in between Coire an Lochan and Coire an t-Sneachda.
Sorry to hear it was just the same on Aonach Mor. Skiing blind is *not* nice, is it?
Other side of the corrie: Fiacaill Coire an t-Sneachda (I think that's the name but it's not named on the 1:50K). Anyway, it's the flat-topped eminence in between Coire an Lochan and Coire an t-Sneachda.
Sorry to hear it was just the same on Aonach Mor. Skiing blind is *not* nice, is it?
In reply to Tim Chappell:
That doesn't quite fit with my understanding of the terrain up there unless you came down the Goat Track area. Getting down from the top of Fiacaill coire an t-Sneachda to the corrie floor by any other route would be difficult with skis on i.e. grade I/II terrain.
That doesn't quite fit with my understanding of the terrain up there unless you came down the Goat Track area. Getting down from the top of Fiacaill coire an t-Sneachda to the corrie floor by any other route would be difficult with skis on i.e. grade I/II terrain.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Or maybe you weren't where you thought you were?
I've made nav cockups on 2 consecutive weekends now but fortunately not serious ones.
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
>
> Well I did it... and yes, it was scary!
>
> Well I did it... and yes, it was scary!
Or maybe you weren't where you thought you were?
I've made nav cockups on 2 consecutive weekends now but fortunately not serious ones.
In reply to DaveHK:
I was where I thought I was. It's not always like that with me and the compass, but this time it was. I was well north of the gnarly bits of that face, Fiacaill Buttress and the like, though there was still quite a lot of downward-contouring thinking "Hell, I hope there's nothing nasty down there".
I was where I thought I was. It's not always like that with me and the compass, but this time it was. I was well north of the gnarly bits of that face, Fiacaill Buttress and the like, though there was still quite a lot of downward-contouring thinking "Hell, I hope there's nothing nasty down there".
In reply to Tim Chappell:
>...it was scary!
Skiing in poor vis can be like skiing on the inside of a giant ping pong ball - it totally messes with your sense of direction and speed.
I think skiing down the Vallee Blanche in zero visibility after bailing off a route in a storm is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in the mountains. There were 4 of us, skiing roped-up, and we not only had to avoid the crevasses but all steeper slopes too as they were wind loaded and shooting cracks were appearing above and below us. Never again!
>...it was scary!
Skiing in poor vis can be like skiing on the inside of a giant ping pong ball - it totally messes with your sense of direction and speed.
I think skiing down the Vallee Blanche in zero visibility after bailing off a route in a storm is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in the mountains. There were 4 of us, skiing roped-up, and we not only had to avoid the crevasses but all steeper slopes too as they were wind loaded and shooting cracks were appearing above and below us. Never again!
In reply to Aly:
Yeah, you get like you can't even tell which way is up...
The 'lee Blanche in zero vis sounds a bit hard-core. Mind you, if Scotland had glaciers and some of them were (as they probably would be) in the Norries, I wouldn't even have tried to do what I tried today.
(In case anyone's wondering, my plan was to get to Beinn Mhic Duibh in beautiful sunshine by about noon, and take it from there. The best-laid plans etc.)
Yeah, you get like you can't even tell which way is up...
The 'lee Blanche in zero vis sounds a bit hard-core. Mind you, if Scotland had glaciers and some of them were (as they probably would be) in the Norries, I wouldn't even have tried to do what I tried today.
(In case anyone's wondering, my plan was to get to Beinn Mhic Duibh in beautiful sunshine by about noon, and take it from there. The best-laid plans etc.)
In reply to Tim Chappell:
In that case the grid ref you quoted was wrong because 998033 is about a kilometer away from the Fiacaill Ridge on the other side of the corrie!.
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
>
> I was where I thought I was.
>
> I was where I thought I was.
In that case the grid ref you quoted was wrong because 998033 is about a kilometer away from the Fiacaill Ridge on the other side of the corrie!.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I wondered if that was what you had done. I'm off out to try skiing again today but if it's claggy I'm not going to bother. 2 days on the trot of skiing on bearings would just be too much.
I wondered if that was what you had done. I'm off out to try skiing again today but if it's claggy I'm not going to bother. 2 days on the trot of skiing on bearings would just be too much.
In reply to Aly: We did the Petit Envers the other day in perfect viz and ok snow conditions. The Gros Rognon looked like it had better snow so I met another mate and did a lap of that. Just after the requin hut at the salle a manger the clouds rolled in and we were down to aroun 3-5m visibility.
In hindsight roping up might have been a plan but we just snow-plowed and tried to zig-zag our way down the old tracks. If it had been snowing and the tracks filling in, it would have been terrifying!
It reminds you that while most days the VB is a cruisy motorway, it's still a serious ski!
In hindsight roping up might have been a plan but we just snow-plowed and tried to zig-zag our way down the old tracks. If it had been snowing and the tracks filling in, it would have been terrifying!
It reminds you that while most days the VB is a cruisy motorway, it's still a serious ski!
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Ah, that makes a lot more sense! You shouldn't be ashamed to take the skis off and walk in a situation like that: it does make the nav a whole lot easier.
I'm not sure I'd fancy trying to skin up the top section of that ridge in any case. The more usual route on skis to Macdui is up Fiacaill a' Choire Chas to 1141m, a nice run (hopefully!) down to the flat bit of Coire Raibert, then a rising traverse above the Stag Rocks into Coire Domhain.
> Exactly a kilometre, in fact-- I meant 988033
Ah, that makes a lot more sense! You shouldn't be ashamed to take the skis off and walk in a situation like that: it does make the nav a whole lot easier.
I'm not sure I'd fancy trying to skin up the top section of that ridge in any case. The more usual route on skis to Macdui is up Fiacaill a' Choire Chas to 1141m, a nice run (hopefully!) down to the flat bit of Coire Raibert, then a rising traverse above the Stag Rocks into Coire Domhain.
Hi Chappell:
did you not consider at any time taking off your skis and calming down a bit?
did you not consider at any time taking off your skis and calming down a bit?
In reply to Tim Chappell: I was thinking same as that when reading the comments; so close to safety (distance-wise) but still potentially very dangerous ground I would have walked? Sound hideous... ffffff
In reply to paraffin:
Hi Fin:
Yes of course I considered that. But I was trying to balance the need for safety with the need to get out of there quickly.
> Hi Chappell:
> did you not consider at any time taking off your skis and calming down a bit?
> did you not consider at any time taking off your skis and calming down a bit?
Hi Fin:
Yes of course I considered that. But I was trying to balance the need for safety with the need to get out of there quickly.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
So to recap..
having read MWIS you set out in shoite weather, in Scotland, and were disappointed when the forecast was incorrect? Mmmmhhhh?
I'm guessing A. You're English? or B. Not Scottish.
So to recap..
having read MWIS you set out in shoite weather, in Scotland, and were disappointed when the forecast was incorrect? Mmmmhhhh?
I'm guessing A. You're English? or B. Not Scottish.
In reply to Mark Bull:
I've thankfully only ever tried it on piste, but snowboarding in a whiteout is easily the most disorienting thing I've ever done. I did end up walking.
> You shouldn't be ashamed to take the skis off and walk in a situation like that:
I've thankfully only ever tried it on piste, but snowboarding in a whiteout is easily the most disorienting thing I've ever done. I did end up walking.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
Several years ago, three of us were caught in a whiteout on the summit of Macdui. We were en route to Braeriach, on skis. We were comfortable navigating in the conditions, but the upper slopes of Tailors burn were awful; we all got motion sickness! What happened in practice was that the person in front would turn, get dizzy, fall, providing a point of reference for the next two who would leapfrog past and get dizzy in turn. We proceeded down the gully in this style of linked falls until out of the cloud around 800m. Fortunately the weather cleared for the awesome descent of sron na lairig
This Saturday, we were out skiing on hills above glen Feshie - had thought possibly to do Braeriach if weather ok. It was lovely until we reached Carn ban mor at which point I'm glad to say we retreated, just managing to enjoy a great ski back down before the worst of the clag & blizzard hit! The walk back through the snowclad pine forests was fab
Several years ago, three of us were caught in a whiteout on the summit of Macdui. We were en route to Braeriach, on skis. We were comfortable navigating in the conditions, but the upper slopes of Tailors burn were awful; we all got motion sickness! What happened in practice was that the person in front would turn, get dizzy, fall, providing a point of reference for the next two who would leapfrog past and get dizzy in turn. We proceeded down the gully in this style of linked falls until out of the cloud around 800m. Fortunately the weather cleared for the awesome descent of sron na lairig
This Saturday, we were out skiing on hills above glen Feshie - had thought possibly to do Braeriach if weather ok. It was lovely until we reached Carn ban mor at which point I'm glad to say we retreated, just managing to enjoy a great ski back down before the worst of the clag & blizzard hit! The walk back through the snowclad pine forests was fab
In reply to Tim Chappell: Its extremely unwise to ski off piste in a true whiteout, especially in the area you were in, the thread reads as if you are very inexperienced.
In reply to the usual trolls:
I was there and you weren't, so you don't really have the first idea what you're talking about.
Fact is, I made my own decisions, had the nous to get out without trouble, and was open enough to talk about some of the problems involved on here afterwards. If I was less used to UKC I'd be surprised at getting flak for doing that.
No? You're not buying? OK, let's cut to the chase:
I'm a complete idiot and everyone on here knows far more than I do.
Now I've given you what you want will you please shut up?
I was there and you weren't, so you don't really have the first idea what you're talking about.
Fact is, I made my own decisions, had the nous to get out without trouble, and was open enough to talk about some of the problems involved on here afterwards. If I was less used to UKC I'd be surprised at getting flak for doing that.
No? You're not buying? OK, let's cut to the chase:
I'm a complete idiot and everyone on here knows far more than I do.
Now I've given you what you want will you please shut up?
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I'm hoping that wasn't aimed at me: my intention was to offer you some helpful advice, not to put you down. If it didn't come across that way, I apologise.
> the usual trolls
I'm hoping that wasn't aimed at me: my intention was to offer you some helpful advice, not to put you down. If it didn't come across that way, I apologise.
In reply to Tim Chappell: I was out in the same area sat and sun and have to agree conditions were interesting.
well done for getting down were you did in those conditions, I went down off Lochan to point 1083, which is a bit of a vague line in whiteout but with skins on to keep the speed down felt ok.
I disagree that you shouldnt be out in a whiteout on skis. As long as you have the kit, skills and time it is good to experience so that when it happens for real you can cope. You practice ice axe braking, assessing slopes etc why not navigation.
With the snow that fell over the last few days, hopefully more good days to follow
well done for getting down were you did in those conditions, I went down off Lochan to point 1083, which is a bit of a vague line in whiteout but with skins on to keep the speed down felt ok.
I disagree that you shouldnt be out in a whiteout on skis. As long as you have the kit, skills and time it is good to experience so that when it happens for real you can cope. You practice ice axe braking, assessing slopes etc why not navigation.
With the snow that fell over the last few days, hopefully more good days to follow
In reply to macinboots:
Yeah-- we just need some sunshine!
It's been snowing like a white snowy snowing thing all weekend, and all morning. Goodness me it's laying some piste out there. If the temps stay down during April we could be on for a skiing Mayfest. I certainly hope so
Yeah-- we just need some sunshine!
It's been snowing like a white snowy snowing thing all weekend, and all morning. Goodness me it's laying some piste out there. If the temps stay down during April we could be on for a skiing Mayfest. I certainly hope so
In reply to Padraig:
What the feck is that about...
This happens to me the whole time and I'm not English or Scottish!
The weather was lovely on Sat morning and the "shoite" weather appeared well before it was forecasted!!
If your Irish, which I'm guessing, it's stupid comments like this that give us a bad name..
> (In reply to Tim Chappell)
> So to recap..
> having read MWIS you set out in shoite weather, in Scotland, and were disappointed when the forecast was incorrect? Mmmmhhhh?
> I'm guessing A. You're English? or B. Not Scottish.
> So to recap..
> having read MWIS you set out in shoite weather, in Scotland, and were disappointed when the forecast was incorrect? Mmmmhhhh?
> I'm guessing A. You're English? or B. Not Scottish.
What the feck is that about...
This happens to me the whole time and I'm not English or Scottish!
The weather was lovely on Sat morning and the "shoite" weather appeared well before it was forecasted!!
If your Irish, which I'm guessing, it's stupid comments like this that give us a bad name..
In reply to Tim Chappell: Hey Tim...
I climbed Taxus... Started off in gorgeous blue skies and then the weather turned to pot just after the ice pitches. Did the original finish as couldn't see a thing in the whiteout.
The walk out was loooooong in the conditions.
Cheers
E
I climbed Taxus... Started off in gorgeous blue skies and then the weather turned to pot just after the ice pitches. Did the original finish as couldn't see a thing in the whiteout.
The walk out was loooooong in the conditions.
Cheers
E
In reply to Euge:
Hero. Was that with the guy who was on here partner-hunting? I nearly replied to him myself.
Hero. Was that with the guy who was on here partner-hunting? I nearly replied to him myself.
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