UKC

Dangerous belaying technique?

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 Juan S 18 Apr 2018

What are people's views on running your hand over the rope when taking in rope? 

Everyone does this when giving slack while lead belaying. But in that case you're running your hand over a rope that has tension, which means you can still grip it while letting it slide through your hand.

When you run your hand up the loose rope, you're definitely not gripping it (only way to run your hand over an unweighed rope is to let go of it). Wouldn't this be dangerous if the climber falls? I was always taught this was a huge no-no. But I've just come across this Petzl video which recommends this method: https://youtu.be/ymJb6tW5_BE?list=PL9uQzKJ3xhKp9zG3Y-ux44h_p40lDSUTv&t=...

Am I missing something here?

 

2
 trouserburp 18 Apr 2018
In reply to Juan S:

If you're hand's around the dead rope you're going to grab it, might slip a couple of inches but safe enough

 

5
 Neil Williams 18 Apr 2018
In reply to Juan S:

The reason it is done while paying out is that you basically can't avoid it.

You can avoid it when taking in, so it's best avoided.  If you *can* always have at least one hand firmly holding the dead rope, you *should*.

 DanSharkey 18 Apr 2018
In reply to Neil Williams:

That works fine in theory, but as the leader climbs past a clip you transition from taking in to paying out in the blink of an eye. If I'm doing the old "walk hands up the dead rope" then my leader is gonna be p***ed off when they snag immediately above the clip because I'm switching my hands about trying to pay out rope with both hands below the belay plate.

In reality, if I'm in the split second between taking in rope and reaching my hand back up to the plate to take the more rope in, then if the leader falls in that 0.25 second interval, the difference in speed between the rope and my hand is almost negligible. I'm gonna have no issues at all tightening my grip around the rope and catching the fall. It's happened to me before and it's a complete non-issue. It's arguably more of an issue if the leader falls while I'm paying out rope and reaching down to feed more rope through as the speed of the rope relative to my hand is higher and I'm more likely to get rope burn. Again though, in reality, it's a complete non-issue.

In summary: keep your hand around the dead rope ready to tighten it, keep an eye on your climber, and never let go of the dead rope completely!

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OP Juan S 18 Apr 2018
In reply to Neil Williams:

Yeah that's what I've always thought. I might be wrong here but this could be something that people who are used to belaying with a grigri do. It's how most people seem to belay in Belgium where I'm currently based.

 Luke90 18 Apr 2018
In reply to Juan S:

I've come across this discussion before. I can't remember which one but there's a country where belaying is commonly taught this way and it's generally regarded as the safer option there.

As I recall, the arguments for sliding the dead rope hand were that it's simpler than swapping hands, leaving less potential for confusion, and that it leads more smoothly into lead belaying. I can see logic in that. Particularly the simplicity. Most people pick up belaying quite well in the way it's commonly taught in the UK but occasionally I encounter someone who seems to really struggle with it, constantly struggling to coordinate their hands or trying to start the next sequence before getting back to the starting position.


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