UKC

/ Light wiring

Scottobrien88 on 13 Jul 2018

Recently moved house and decided to buy a new light fitting, switching from ceiling rose to modern 3 cable fit. To help I bought some wago connector's. I'm absolutely certain I have wired correctly after watching hours of YouTube. The lights do come on but now the other lights in sequence are acting funny. Example, kitchen light is dim but is also switching on new light fitting in the living room. I have also changed the light switch socket which has 2 switches for two lights in the living room. Not looking singluar for each. Bathroom light cord also lighting up new livingroom light. Have a missed somethibg simple. YouTube videos are not helping anymore.

krikoman - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Scottobrien88:

Wild guess, but I don't think this is correct

Time for a proper sparky I think.

Neil Williams - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Scottobrien88:

You've done it wrong, whatever has happened.  Might be time to call a sparky before you burn your house down, and leave it all switched off at the consumer unit until they arrive.

What exactly have you changed and how exactly is it wired up?

Post edited at 13:57
wintertree - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Scottobrien88:

Watching YouTube videos doesn’t tell you what the wires you found actually connect to in the house.  If they’re not what you think they are, you could basically have wired anything up now.  

The symptoms you describe make me think your best plan is to turn off all lighting circuits at the consumer unit and call an electrician.

 

Ex Poster 666 - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Scottobrien88:

Domestic wiring could be absolutely anything!
You need to correctly identify all the conductors before doing anything, by testing.

Country_Boy - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Scottobrien88:

The symptoms that you describe suggest with absolute certainty that you haven't wired it correctly.  It sounds like you now have several lighting circuits in series with each other whereas they should be in parallel.  They could also now be connected with random polarity, making things potentially unsafe.

I'm not an electrician, but I was once asked to unscramble a similar problem.  It took several hours of testing, reasoning and drawing out wiring diagrams to figure out what was wrong and how to make it right.

Sorry to bring bad news, but as the others say you now need an electrician.  BTW the law these days requires us to get electrical work done by a person who is certified as competent, or to get any work checked and certified by a person who is certified as competent.  Either way the law requires us to use an electrician.  Electricity is dangerous stuff.  Trying to figure it out from YouTube videos is a bad idea.

 

Neil Williams - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Country_Boy:

> Sorry to bring bad news, but as the others say you now need an electrician.  BTW the law these days requires us to get electrical work done by a person who is certified as competent, or to get any work checked and certified by a person who is certified as competent.  Either way the law requires us to use an electrician.

No, it doesn't, other than in a very small number of specific situations, primarily fittings close to a bath or shower, new circuits and new consumer units.  (Non-notifiable work can be DIYed without any further involvement provided it is done correctly per the Wiring Regulations).

https://www.niceic.com/Niceic.com/media/Schemes/NICEIC-Part-P-Updated-Factsheet.pdf

However I agree the OP needs to turn off his electricity and call an emergency electrician to sort out the mess before such time as he fries himself (or worse someone else) or burns his house down.  You should only DIY electrics if you are SURE you KNOW what you are doing, not you think you might.  It needs to be got right first time without exception.

Post edited at 17:15
wintertree - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Neil Williams:

> No, it doesn't,

You just saved me a hobby-horse post.  The misunderstandings and misrepresentations around Part P do wind me up...

Although the wiring I pulled out of our current house did convince me some people shouldn’t be allowed to do any wiring.  Or nailing of pictures to walls for that matter...  (through the live wirecof a hurried cable) Or installing of showers... (bodge taped terminal blocks under the leaky pan)...

Talking to a colleague who used to work for the gas board I don’t see me living in a terrace with mains gas ever again.  Tales of a condemned oven and a replacement baked bean tin hob won’t leave me...

The problem isn’t what people are/are not allowed to do.  It’s what they actually do...

Post edited at 18:20
Country_Boy - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Neil Williams:

I stand corrected.

Neil Williams - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to wintertree:

> The problem isn’t what people are/are not allowed to do.  It’s what they actually do...

Quite, which is why I was in favour of the rolling back of Part P.  The bodgers just carry on doing what they like ignoring all laws.  The original Part P just prevented conscientious DIYers who would do a proper job from doing it, and thus meaning work doesn't get done at all despite that work being a safety improvement.  FWIW, it's Part P that prevents me (as I like to comply with the rules) from just doing a consumer unit swap one weekend to fit RCDs which I presently don't have as the CU is an older type without them.  Arranging a sparky or planning in building regulations inspections is so much more hassle than getting up one Saturday morning, going down Wickes to get the kit and just doing it that day.

The absolute worst of this was that provision of main equipotential bonding was notifiable - all that meant was that in older installations it simply didn't get provided.  OK, if someone did a bit of a half-hearted job of it (e.g. with a non-continuous cable run) it wouldn't be *as* safe but it could still save a life.

FWIW, there were, when I moved in, some tremendous bodge-jobs in my house (though the basic wiring is sound if getting on a bit).  I've gone through progressively correcting them.  Were I banned from doing so, they'd probably have stayed for years until I could properly afford a rewire.

Really, if the Government were interested in *actually* improving home electrical safety (which in the UK is already one of the safest in the world, so you're getting onto diminishing returns; home electrical fires tend to be caused by faulty appliances rather than faulty fixed wiring these days) they would institute a legal requirement for a periodic professional "MoT" of the wiring (termed a PIR I think), perhaps every 5 or 10 years, with failure meaning disconnection by the supply company until fixed (by whoever - DIY or professional) and professionally re-inspected.

This of course does not absolve the OP of the need to switch his consumer unit off (or at least the affected circuits) and get his looked at properly and urgently, as he clearly doesn't know enough to do it safely.

Post edited at 19:46
Neil Williams - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to wintertree:

FWIW the biggest issue with DIY electric shower installation is people failing to install like for like, i.e. installing a higher rated shower on an inadequate cable run.  I had a similar conversation with family a while back - "can you put this in for me?" - "no, it's way too powerful for the wiring, and running a complete new circuit is Part P[1], you'll have to get someone in".  They decided not to bother and flogged it on eBay.

Mind you, I'd just outlaw the installation of any electric shower.  They are, without exception, utter garbage.  You need a combi or a pump combined with a proper mixer and a big rain shower head.

[1] Electric showers are Part P generally, but a like for like replacement of anything never is.  Trouble is a 10.5kW shower *isn't* a like for like replacement for a 7.5kW one!

Post edited at 19:54
wintertree - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Neil Williams:

Some very good points in there.

> they would institute a legal requirement for a periodic professional "MoT" of the wiring (termed a PIR I think), perhaps every 5 or 10 years, with failure meaning disconnection by the supply company until fixed (by whoever - DIY or professional) and professionally re-inspected.

I think this is happening by stealth.  One of my last three home insurance policies required a copy of an EIC on file with the broker that was less than 10 years old.  I only spotted this by reading the whole 12 cursed pages.  

With regards your comment on faulty appliances - it seems increasingly odd that residents in shared properties built without proper fire isolation - like my old terraced house (where I found some wires joined from their lead cables with ceramic twist caps) - are not required to have periodic appliance testing.  Very invasive mind you.  

> Mind you, I'd just outlaw the installation of any electric shower.  They are, without exception, utter garbage.  You need a combi or a pump combined with a proper mixer and a big rain shower head.

We aren’t shower people so I put one in, the logic being that it gives an independent source of hot hygiene water to our primary heating system.  On the rare occasion I use it I curse my own stupidity.

Neil Williams - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to wintertree:

I'd probably suggest that requiring fire isolation to be added (I guess you're referring to the lack of a proper wall between attics?) would be of more benefit than PAT testing which doesn't tell you an awful lot.  But it's in some ways less of a concern with a house, as the presumption is to evacuate in case of fire.

As for insurance policies, that's not a requirement I've ever seen and I am one for reading the small print in full - but I don't tend to use brokers, and you do get some really obscure requirements in that kind of policy sometimes.

Post edited at 20:48
Philip on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Scottobrien88:

Looks like you've muddled a switched live somewhere.

Good news is it's easy to fix as you've only handled a couple of wires if so you've touched is the switch and the rose. I'm sure a friendly electrician will sort you out for less than £100

 

Edit, I reckon you might have done something odd with the neutral. What kind of light bulb have you for in the kitchen.

Post edited at 20:53
wintertree - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Neil Williams:

> I'd probably suggest that requiring fire isolation to be added (I guess you're referring to the lack of a proper wall between attics?) would be of more benefit than PAT testing which doesn't tell you an awful lot.  But it's in some ways less of a concern with a house, as the presumption is to evacuate in case of fire.

You’re probably right,  The end walls in our terrace tended to have big holes in the lofts - the chimneys (two per house) came out of the next house up the hill, and many had been removed in various non expert ways.

> As for insurance policies, that's not a requirement I've ever seen and I am one for reading the small print in full - but I don't tend to use brokers, and you do get some really obscure requirements in that kind of policy sometimes.

We ended up with a pretty obscure policy unfortunately.  Ironically because we had to have reduced cover in certain areas.

Steve Clark - on 13 Jul 2018
In reply to Neil Williams:

Loft insulation is a big issue with shower supplies.

10m cable run, 6mm2, clipped to ceiling joists -  fine at 10kW

Same cable covered in 270mm of loft insulation - only ok for 6kW

You don't need Part P to install loft insulation, but you can ruin a perfectly installed electrical installation through complete ignorance. 

(Disclaimer : I'm not an electrican, Part P registered or ignorant)

Post edited at 20:59