UKC

(This is my first time posting, so apologies if I'm not doing this correctly!)

I'm looking to get started climbing some munros in winter conditions, and I'm looking for some advice/answers to questions. 

- What rating should I go for for a winter boot for Scottish climates? B2 seems to be most common, and if so, has anyone got recommendations for boots that aren't super expensive (under £250...)?

- Advice on buying crampons, ice axes (are ice axes needed if I'm just getting into it?)

- Any good munros to start on? (I'm a pretty proficient hill-walker and can do grade 1/2 scrambles)

- Any books that I could also get information from?

- Literally any tips, for someone that climbs a lot of hills I feel very out my depth thinking about doing it in winter... 

Thank you in advance!! Appreciate any and every bit of advice  

Hi Maddie and welcome!

The best use of your cash right now, is book a few days on a winter walking course. You can learn all these winter things yourself but it takes a long time. You can bypass the hard work and buy the skills you need over a weekend or two. Wish I’d done a winter one, Did have a multi pitch climbing course a few years ago before venturing in the mountains, best money i’ve ever spent.

Hi,

These guys have loads of winter videos and hold courses mentioned above. Here's one about what boots:

youtube.com/watch?v=ulhbiKyn6vc&

Hi Maddie

Just wanted to back up what wilkie14c has suggested.  Winter skills are essential to keep you alive.  You'll be taught things like how to walk safely in crampons, how to do an ice axe arrest in a variety of situations, and how to read snow conditions to reduce the risk of being avalanched.  Often a course will allow you to borrow or hire kit which allows you to try stuff out as well as get good advice on what to buy.  If you're in Scotland, my club has used instructors from the Ice Factor in Kinlochleven in the past and they've been excellent so that's a tip for you if that's any use.

In answer to one of your specific questions, if you're doing munros in snow you absolutely need to take an ice axe and crampons and know how to use them.

HTH but if you have more questions just keep posting them in the beginner forum and there are plenty of people on here who can give good advice.

Simon

The answer is always, the one’s that fit. When you say winter Munros do you mean just walking, or getting specifically into climbing. Most Munros can be done in winter with B1 boots and 10 point C1 crampons. If you think you’ll be taking in more serious hills eg Aonoch Eagach then yes B2 and C2 might be what you’ll be wanting.

As above, and yes you need an ice axe. You can get half decent 2nd hand ones on here and other online stores.

Where are you based? One issue with winter is travelling in the dark. Maybe start as near your location as possible to give yourself as much time as possible on the hill, as opposed to sitting in the car.

Loads available, ask in a good store. No substitute for practice though.

Don’t underestimate the importance of planning. It’s like driving a car, you’re most likely to have an accident shortly after you’ve passed your test. Build up your experience and you’ll have a lifetime of memories to look forward to.

As others have said, do a course. Speeds up the learning process. Or join a club.

For B2 boots, if they fit, you won't get better value than decathlon Simond blue alpinist boots.

The book I got most from when I was starting out was "The Munro's in Winter" by Martin Moran (RIP)

Before launching into buying loads of kit I backup what's already been said regarding a course. If you go through Glenmore Lodge, for example, they'll have kit you can use and they'll get you up some munros as part of the course, so you'll get a feel for how you feel about the conditions and get some experience and advice on kit. Plas-y-brenin also do winter courses based near Glen Coe (well, they used to anyway). A basic winter mountaineering course will get you going. They'll talk about kit and general preparation/approach. They'll do winter navigation as well as there are different challenges to non-winter navigation (specifically the fact that snow is on the ground). Try and go with some base fitness as they try to get you up hills everyday and, I think, they're 5 or 6 day courses. Fairly intensive but will get you up and running quickly and well worth the money. Not sure how they're operating at the moment, though, given the present situation. Alternatively, find a trustworthy friend who will put in the time with you.

Show the mountains in Scotland in winter plenty of respect but don't be scared. If you do your preparation, make good decisions and are sensible then you'll have a great time. And carry a head torch...

To be clear for steep snowy winter walking you want a single walking axe, not a pair of technical axes.

The big skill that it is impossible to teach yourself is avalanche safety. This includes reading forecasts, judging the snowpack, understanding where the terrain traps are etc. Courses are great for this, or you can go out with someone more experienced.

I wouldn't really agree with this. If you want walking stick(s) use a trekking pole (or pair). If you are not somewhere a rope is needed you will use crampons much more than an axe. Walking with crampons and pole(s) is what you'll do most of. You will only need an axe on steep ground and then a so-called walking axe will be too long. For the vast majority of people a 55cm axe is ideal as you can use it on steep ground, which is where you will have your pole(s) in the rucsac. (If you are of short stature a 50cm axe may be better). I'm a bit past doing this sort of activity now, but in the past I found my 50 cm Chouinard Zero axe in one hand and a trekking pole in the other was a great pairing when the going got steep. I had (even still have, somewhere) a 65 cm "walking axe" but when I bought my Chouinard I never used the long one again.

I think you disagreed and then agreed in description? tlouth did say 'steep', which means an axe.

Hi Maddie

Winter is daunting, but also the best time of year on the hills. We've got a wealth of winter-related articles on UKH that could be worth a look.

Expert Tips on winter walking: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/series/expert_tips/winter_wal...

Wind in the mountains: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/series/skills/wind_in_the_mou...

Be avalanche aware: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/series/skills/be_avalanche_aw...

Winter walker's MOT, get set for the cold season: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/series/skills/winter_walkers_...

Serious mistakes winter walkers make: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/ten_serious_mistakes_winter_w...

Navigation in winter: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/navigation_in_winter-7183

How to drive in winter (often the most risky bit of the day): https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/how_to_drive_in_winter-7993 

Big hills for winter beginners: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/destinations/seven_best_big_hills_fo...

Frostbite - how to avoid it: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/series/skills/frostbite_-_wha...

Walking with an ice axe: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/essential_winter_skills_walki...

Walking in crampons: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/essential_winter_skills_walki...

Ice axe self arrest: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/series/skills/essential_winte...

Tips for buying winter boots: https://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/skills/series/top_tips/ten_for_buyin...

Hi Maddie,

I'd also strongly recommend going on a course such as those run by Glenmore Lodge. Speak to them and they'll advise whats the best course for your needs.

My wife used to be nervous about being in the hills in winter. She felt dependent on me (although in fact she had a lot of knowledge, but just wasn't confident in decision making).  I thought it would be good if we both did a course - that way it wasn't me teaching her!  The course was brilliant, she learned loads (and I did too) and most importantly her confidence soared. Plus, as others have said, they will provide all the kit you need and its a great way to try stuff out. You get loads of info from the course, but also from the instructors during walk in/out - don't be afraid to ask them about anything.  You won't regret it.

N

I hope you are ready for an avalanche of encyclopaedic replies from ukc!

Assuming you want to walk, you need a walking axe and only one of them. Any reasonable outdoor store should be able to give you one the right length (depends on your height). There is only a point in having one though if you can use it to stop yourself sliding when you fall. If you can't ice-axe arrest, stick to walks at an easy angle and use walking poles.

You can learn to ice-axe arrest yourself - get the basics from youtube and head out (probably with a friend) to somewhere SAFE to practice. I.e. a steep slope with no rocks and a big flat area of snow at the bottom.

In terms of crampons and boots, if you are walking, you really only need b1 boots and walking crampons. You might even find your summer boots are already up to the job. BUT this assumes you are not getting onto steep snow slopes or difficult terrain. In practical terms, I can't think of many Munroes outside of the Cuillin where you would need to get on steep and difficult terrain if you ascend by an easy route. Also I would say that as a beginner you should definitely not be anywhere that B2/3 boots and dual axes are needed on your own - that's winter soloing and it's a very different kettle of fish. I use C1 crampons on what are almost certainly B0 boots and it actually functions as a pretty good warning system because if purchase on the snow slope starts to get sketchy, it's a sign I'm heading into terrain that is too steep.

Literally hundreds

Wait, I can be more helpful - look at a map. From the contours it's pretty easy to see ridges which gently slope up and offer you an easy and steady way to the summit. e.g. Ben Lawers, Mount Keen, the Cairnwell, Cairn Aosta, etc. etc. (though it has to be said, the easy ones are also boring ones :P )

Again, hundreds. Honestly though, in the age of the internet, I would have a look at Youtube for learning specific skills (assuming you don't want to pay for a course which would be a much better option when it comes to learning well and quickly - somewhere like Glenmore Lodge do lots of courses, you are looking for something based on "winter skills").

1) Make sure you can navigate. Or at the very least, make sure that you can re-trace your steps back down if you get out of your depth. Nav is much harder when the whole land is covered in white.

2) Beware of cornices when on a ridge - don't walk close to the edge (well, any edge actually!).

3) Start small - do a mountain you know first. Do things where nav is very easy next. Leave the Cairngorm plateau for a bit later on.

4) Headtorch.

5) Go out with a friend. All the better if they have a bit of experience you can learn from.

6) Keep an eye on conditions, if it's getting late or too wet/cold/windy/misty, put your ego in a box and just start back down. In time you will develop a subconscious warning feeling which will tip you off that things are going bad but to begin with you need to evaluate very consciously.

7) Check the avalanche information service before heading out each trip and take it seriously.

Boots are highly personal.  Fit is paramount.  I'd advise going to a shop with a good range and take your time.  Ideally buy boots after you've been for a walk when your feet will be more swollen and sensitive.

I was suggesting that a "walking" axe is not the best thing on steep ground. Just my humble opinion.

In the event of a slip,trip or fall you cannot do an arrest with a walking pole hence the need for a walking axe - and knowing how to use it as well of course

I knew that, which is why I wouldn't use two poles. I'd have my trusty 50cm axe in the other hand and then when going up a steep slope I'd be able to use it where a long axe is a nuisance. But clearly we're not going to convince each other! Never mind.