UKC

Anybody know anything else about this: http://www.pistehors.com/comments/439_0_1_0_C/

In reply to Frank4short:
Why do you want to know more? It's all there isn't it? Best laid to rest I think for the sake of their friends and family.

In reply to Andy S: How about i put it like this then, i did 4 winters in chamonix (full seasons). I know alot, of people there, alot of british people there. First of all i'm interested to see if it might be someone i know, & secondly i'd like to know what actually happened as opposed to someone died in the general vicinity of... cause there are lots of folk in cham doing lots of stuff, it could have just been a tragic accident or it could have been someone doing something they shouldn't have been. Now i'd like to think if it was the later then it will inform people that maybe it isn't a good idea to be doing x at y if they know about it.

So does that answer your question. & to clarify whoever the individual was my commiserations go to his family & loved ones but this doesn't amek it wrong to aask about the circumstances of his death, does it?

In reply to Frank4short:
No it doesn't and I wish more people felt the same. These things do happen in the mountains. They should not be swept under the rug. Get the facts out so others are informed "that maybe it isn't a good idea to be doing x at y" as Frank points out.

In reply to Frank4short: I agree completely, and just to compound what you've said, everyone here has a vested interest in gaining knowledge from accidents in an effort to avoid their own and companions deaths. I have certainly strived to learn the exact circumstances of accidents friends of mine have been involved to delay my own and others mortalities as long as possible.

In reply to Frank4short:

If it's any extra info - I think the snow bridges are very weak at the moment (no idea why at this time of year (poor base? v. hot conditions?) as I am in HK) - a french guy died falling into a crevasse on the Argentiere glacier in the last few days.

In reply to Wingman@work:

The pistehors website indicated its because its been so cold for a long period of time and now temperatures are rising rapidly...in the past this season there hasnt been the same freeze/thaw cycles to solidify the bases... I think.

Unfortunately there were several accidents reporting in the site recently.

In reply to Frank4short:

I think if people read a bit further down the posting and saw this;

There is a possibility that the ropes on the ridge from the Aiguille du Midi will be removed and only experienced skiers or boarders or those travelling with a guide will be advised to do the Vallée Blanche. This will be a temporary measure while the snowbridges covering crevasses are poor. Please check with the OHM in Chamonix for information

it may help.

In reply to sutty:

Sutty, it was more a question of why they are poor (which I think may have been answered above) as in mid march you would have thought they would have strengthened through the season without beginning to weaken due to the spring temperature rises..........

In reply to Wingman@work:
It is most likely a case that the unfortunate soul rode across a rather large crevasse. Even mid winter there are some big holes on the Vallee Blanche.

I think the last bit of the article implies the fellow was inexperienced which I think might be a bit of an assumption which shouldn't have been made.

In reply to Wingman@work: it has been consistently cold since early feb out there, I would imagine the snow hasn't transformed properly. There may be a bit of a snow shortage, we need a snowy spring like last year

In reply to Wingman@work:

I was skiing in the 3rd week of Jan. Week started with very thin snow cover, but then dumped it down big time. The snow was poorly bonded to the slope - I triggered an avalanche that took my mate 50m down the slope, there was just grass and rocks under the removed snow (apparently in the same week 6 people died in avalanches in the same region). From what I have heard there has been very little warm weather since so I am guessing the base is still very weak.

In reply to Frank4short: Right folks enough of the conjecture, more facts, that was the point of the thread in the first place.

In reply to Frank4short:

We were out in Chamonix at the end of January. Apparently there is usually a large snowfall in late autumn of wettish snow that fills in the majority of the crevasses on the Vallee Blanche. Last year it didn't happen (according to a ski instructor, who also works on the Midi phrique) so the only fill in the crevasses is winter snow which is much drier and doesn't do the job quite so well as it blows around a lot.

Bob

In reply to Bob:

Was sitting drinking a beer at 17.00hrs yesterday in Les Praz de Chamonix, watched several small avalanches/slides. One of which came down over the para-avalanche protecting the train des montonvers. It is very very warm there at the moment, I believe it was 15°c when we were sitting out yesterday.

My mates are doing the VB today, so will ask when they come down what it was like today.

i was up in vallorcine yesterday on the way to the dam,a small one came past me about 10 metres away,still quite noisey for a small one,mind u 22c today u can expect a few more to occur.

In reply to Frank4short:
Right folks enough of the conjecture, more facts,

Hey folks, Have been in the alps all winter as usual and the facts are these:

autumn snowfalls were minimal, I have never seen the peaks/slopes looking so bare as this december. The snowfalls in january were no more than average, hence (refer to french avvy websites if you want confirmation) anything above roughly 2200m is well down on snow levels compared to average years. The VB was very late in "opening' this year due to a massive lack of snow, so one can easily infer that any snowbridges are going to be pretty damn thin/weak, this is before you start to take into account recent warm temps...

Cheers

Pinch

In reply to Frank4short:

4 intermediate boarders on traverse early on in vallee. Couldnt keep it going so took off boards to walk to ski track. First two ok, 4th one ok, 3rd one in line fell down big crevasse. Didnt know they were on snow bridge, no harnesses, no rope.

In reply to Frank4short:
I did a season in Cham in 2000 and was frankly horrified by the lack of mountain skills of the average seasoner. Its amazing more people aren't killed. I'm not suggesting these guys were anything but unlucky but maybe doing things like removing the ropes from the Midi and discouraging less competent riders/skiers would be a good thing.

In reply to Anonymous:

I understood from one of the boarders concerned that they had their boards on. Either way, having just spent a few days on the glaciers out there, the winter coverage is thin and the snow bridges are very weak due to the warm weather of the last few days.

FACTS (as I'm aware): This accident was a friend (Joe) of a friend (one of the survivors) of a friend (the victum). It was described to me that it was the foursome's first or second time down the Vallee Blanche and that the unfortunate victum had indeed taken off his snowboard and walked during a flat bit. They were appearently highly skilled riders, but with almost no mountaineering experience. I concluded from this that the danger of cravass fall was severely heightened because the person was walking, not skiing/surfing, and unroped. Not related to an out of control fall as are some - he was appearently on the route. Not to mention as everyone else has written that this winter has been crap for snow in the Chamonix-Zermatt region and snow bridges are particularly weak now.

COMMENTARY: The survivor that told all this to my friend Joe described this as probably the most tramatic event of his life. When talking about tragedies, a heavy amount of compassion is necessary... there are families and friends in mourning. However knowing how a situation became tragic helps in preventing a similar tragedy, so it is one of the most important tools in gaining knowledge and being safe on the mountain.

In reply to John Blab: I skied the Vallee Blanche on Saturday, it is VERY lean at the steep crevassed section near the refuge. It doesnt surprise me to hear someone has fallen through a crevasse. It is quite difficult too and probably equates to an American double black diamond, certainly not the blue run it used to be. Feck knows how the 1000's of punters on Saturday were managing to get down it.

I was in the Chamonix region last week (12-19 March) we had planned to do the VB with a guide but the conditions looked marginal to me and a discussion with the guide company confirmed that, so we decided to leave it to another year.

The conditions between the pistes (as opposed to proper off-piste) was great fun and we spent most of the last two days playing around beneath the La Herse chair. We saw/heard quite a few avalanches off towards Le Tour.

The snow where we were was quite heavily layered in places, if you pushed a ski pole in you could feel the layers quite distinctly, the lower layers felt soft to me but I'm no snow/avalanche expert.

I get the feeling we are going to see more of this as the improvements in skis and the use of boards is making it easier for non-mountaineers to get further off piste.

I have friends who have little or no experience of mountains or navigation other than boarding every winter and they go to places I wouldn't contemplate. They seem to think that these 'muppets' that go off with rucksacks, harnesses and mountain skis are taking it too seriously. I've tried to get at least some of them to get a bit of training but they can't be arsed.

This isn't an comment on the victim or his party who may be experienced but unlucky, just an observation.

Steve D
(still with a big smile after a week of great skiing)

I dunno we did the Envers du Plan route last week as well as the Schwarztor route here in Zermatt. And a bunch of other glaciar stuff around Zermatt and Saas Fee... Yes cover is quite thin, snow is crap conditions, and the steep first pitch from the Midi was quite icy. But still reasonable from what I saw in terms of safety... definitly not a blue run at this point though.

Well it's snowing above 2500m and forecast is to continue through the weekend so hopefully that will help...