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We were climbing down from the Lagginhorn when an accident happend on the normal route of the Weissmies. Helicopters used the Weissmies hut as a base when they evacuated people down from the route. We walked down to the hut and follow the situation from there.
We heard so many different variations what had happened that it would be nice to find some more details about the accident. I don't speak German and a quick Google didn't give any results so I'd be happy to hear if someone has more details about the accident.
We climbed the normal route of the Weissmies next day and the accident spot looked scary and it's easy to believe that something might go wrong there. And it was really warm too, so the snow bridges were weak.
We heard so many different variations what had happened that it would be nice to find some more details about the accident. I don't speak German and a quick Google didn't give any results so I'd be happy to hear if someone has more details about the accident.
We climbed the normal route of the Weissmies next day and the accident spot looked scary and it's easy to believe that something might go wrong there. And it was really warm too, so the snow bridges were weak.
In reply to Juki:
Anyone?
Anyone?
In reply to Juki:
Haven't heard anything but wouldn't surprise me if a one of the seracs had given way, they were looking decidedly dodgy when we were up there earlier in the month.
Haven't heard anything but wouldn't surprise me if a one of the seracs had given way, they were looking decidedly dodgy when we were up there earlier in the month.
In reply to Juki:
I'm afraid i know what happened. A group of 5 was climbing down the Weissmies, one of which is a friend of mine, who conveyed this info to me.
They were walking over a snow bridge that failed. They ended up all falling in the crevice, and snow covered them. Two of the guys were covered completely and lost their lives. The 3 that survived managed to dig themselves out in time.
I'm afraid i know what happened. A group of 5 was climbing down the Weissmies, one of which is a friend of mine, who conveyed this info to me.
They were walking over a snow bridge that failed. They ended up all falling in the crevice, and snow covered them. Two of the guys were covered completely and lost their lives. The 3 that survived managed to dig themselves out in time.
In reply to boghi: Wow heavy stuff. My condolences to your friends.
What was the details on the bridge? Was it a massive one that showed no warning of falling, or a hidden bridge that was unseen until it broke?
What was the details on the bridge? Was it a massive one that showed no warning of falling, or a hidden bridge that was unseen until it broke?
In reply to boghi:
That was the sad story I heard at the hut too.
When we crossed the same crevasse next morning my thoughts were with the victims. Sorry but my English skills are not good enough to write more about this subject.
> I'm afraid i know what happened.
That was the sad story I heard at the hut too.
When we crossed the same crevasse next morning my thoughts were with the victims. Sorry but my English skills are not good enough to write more about this subject.
Could you tell me what you mean by scary? I mean in what respect did it look scary? What would you say how steep was it?
In reply to Anonymous:
I'll answer you by email later today. I presume that you are the same person who asked the same questions by email?
> Could you tell me what you mean by scary?
I'll answer you by email later today. I presume that you are the same person who asked the same questions by email?
As horrible and unfortunate as the incident was, is there an official accident report or unofficial account that can be provided?
Gruesome as it sometimes is, accident analysis is one of the tools that keeps us safe.
Gruesome as it sometimes is, accident analysis is one of the tools that keeps us safe.
In reply to John Blab:
I don't know. I'm quite sure that similar accidents happen so often that it's nothing uncommon.
I try to explain the place as well as I can but it's a bit difficult without a picture (and proper English skills).
The accident happened on 31st around noon. We climbed the same route next day and crossed the spot around 10am when coming down. Weather conditions were pretty much similar on both days.
The crevasse itself was about 2.5 meters wide but still had a weak snow bridge over it. Middle part of the snow bridge was gone so it wasn't difficult to see where the accident had happened. And there were clear signs of the rescue operation inside the crevasse at that spot.
The slope above the crevasse was about 50 degrees but after about two meters and it got less steep and was maybe 35 degrees for the next 40 meters. The slope was snow covered but the snow was more like slush. After some digging it was possible to find fairly solid ice.
When we crossed the same place as a group of two we used ice screw belay. When I crossed the crevasse going up I had a good chance to have closer look of the place. When we came down we jumped over it. By alpine standards the crevasse was deep and wide but still covered with a weak snow bridge. It was quite difficult to see the actual dimensions of the crevasse until you were standing over it. The upper side of the crevasse was about one meter higher than the lower side.
I don't know what exactly happened there on July 31st but there are two obvious scenarios that can result to the accident. Because it was noon, it's quite obvious that they were probably descending.
Scenario 1.
Group of five is using 50m rope with about 8m intervals. This is a normal and a safe thing to do but for some reason they had coils in their hands and moving close to each other. Maybe because the route was very crowded and because of that it was easier to move with coils. Or they were inexperienced and had seen people walking with coils. Maybe they just didn't know where is safe to move with coils and where's not.
The slope above the crevasse is fairly steep and the last few meters are even steeper.
The leader steps through the snow bridge and because of the width of the crevasse there's nothing to slow him down. The second member of the rope is quite close to him with the coils. The crevasse is very deep so the leader doesn't hit the bottom before the rope gets tight.
The leader has taken a long free fall because of the coils and the second is standing on a steep slope. The second has no chance to stop him and he's pulled to the crevasse. The crevasse was very deep. This means that the third member of the team who's standing on the steep slope should be able hold two climbers who are falling in the air. Obviously it's not possible. Domino effect has started.
Scenario 2.
The team doesn't use the full length of the rope. They move very close to each other. Leader steps through the snow bridge and starts a free fall. Other members of the rope have no chance to do anything because everything happens in milliseconds.
When we climbed the route next day and descended over the accident spot there were lots of people going up. Most of them used the techniques mentioned above when they were crossing the very same crevasse.
If you are descending a steep slope and there's a crevasse in front of you, you really should think what to do. If the leader falls, there's a good chance that all the other guys will follow him.
If the rope team has at least four members I'd say it's safe to cross a wide crevasse without a belay. BUT with a tight rope between ALL the members of the team and everyone has an axe ready for the self arrest position. After the leader has crossed the crevasse the situation gets much safer because he's below the crevasse if someone will fall. It's not very likely that he'll pulled uphill to the crevasse.
When we crossed it as a team of two, I made a belay about 30 meters above the crevasse and belayed the leader over the crevasse. Then the leader walked down and I waited that the rope gets tight and jumped over the crevasse.
The sad thing was to see people going up the same spot where two climbers had died 20 hours ago, using very unsafe techniques. And few of the leaders had an UIAGM-badge in their jacket.
> is there an official accident report or unofficial account that can be provided?
I don't know. I'm quite sure that similar accidents happen so often that it's nothing uncommon.
I try to explain the place as well as I can but it's a bit difficult without a picture (and proper English skills).
The accident happened on 31st around noon. We climbed the same route next day and crossed the spot around 10am when coming down. Weather conditions were pretty much similar on both days.
The crevasse itself was about 2.5 meters wide but still had a weak snow bridge over it. Middle part of the snow bridge was gone so it wasn't difficult to see where the accident had happened. And there were clear signs of the rescue operation inside the crevasse at that spot.
The slope above the crevasse was about 50 degrees but after about two meters and it got less steep and was maybe 35 degrees for the next 40 meters. The slope was snow covered but the snow was more like slush. After some digging it was possible to find fairly solid ice.
When we crossed the same place as a group of two we used ice screw belay. When I crossed the crevasse going up I had a good chance to have closer look of the place. When we came down we jumped over it. By alpine standards the crevasse was deep and wide but still covered with a weak snow bridge. It was quite difficult to see the actual dimensions of the crevasse until you were standing over it. The upper side of the crevasse was about one meter higher than the lower side.
I don't know what exactly happened there on July 31st but there are two obvious scenarios that can result to the accident. Because it was noon, it's quite obvious that they were probably descending.
Scenario 1.
Group of five is using 50m rope with about 8m intervals. This is a normal and a safe thing to do but for some reason they had coils in their hands and moving close to each other. Maybe because the route was very crowded and because of that it was easier to move with coils. Or they were inexperienced and had seen people walking with coils. Maybe they just didn't know where is safe to move with coils and where's not.
The slope above the crevasse is fairly steep and the last few meters are even steeper.
The leader steps through the snow bridge and because of the width of the crevasse there's nothing to slow him down. The second member of the rope is quite close to him with the coils. The crevasse is very deep so the leader doesn't hit the bottom before the rope gets tight.
The leader has taken a long free fall because of the coils and the second is standing on a steep slope. The second has no chance to stop him and he's pulled to the crevasse. The crevasse was very deep. This means that the third member of the team who's standing on the steep slope should be able hold two climbers who are falling in the air. Obviously it's not possible. Domino effect has started.
Scenario 2.
The team doesn't use the full length of the rope. They move very close to each other. Leader steps through the snow bridge and starts a free fall. Other members of the rope have no chance to do anything because everything happens in milliseconds.
When we climbed the route next day and descended over the accident spot there were lots of people going up. Most of them used the techniques mentioned above when they were crossing the very same crevasse.
If you are descending a steep slope and there's a crevasse in front of you, you really should think what to do. If the leader falls, there's a good chance that all the other guys will follow him.
If the rope team has at least four members I'd say it's safe to cross a wide crevasse without a belay. BUT with a tight rope between ALL the members of the team and everyone has an axe ready for the self arrest position. After the leader has crossed the crevasse the situation gets much safer because he's below the crevasse if someone will fall. It's not very likely that he'll pulled uphill to the crevasse.
When we crossed it as a team of two, I made a belay about 30 meters above the crevasse and belayed the leader over the crevasse. Then the leader walked down and I waited that the rope gets tight and jumped over the crevasse.
The sad thing was to see people going up the same spot where two climbers had died 20 hours ago, using very unsafe techniques. And few of the leaders had an UIAGM-badge in their jacket.
In reply to Juki:
Thank you for your description. Yes, I was the person who asked via email, too, as I wasn't sure if you would look into this topic again. I don't know what really happened as I was to far behind (fourth person of the rope). (That's why I was asking for a description as I know the crevasse mostly from the inside.) I think our first person came to close to the edge of the crevasse and then wanted to jump. Hence, of course, the rope was not tight between the first and the second person. Unfortunately it wasn't tight in just that situation between the rest either but I am not sure if that would have helped (though I wished it would have been tight than I would not ask this if). Well, nobody will ever be able to answer that. I put my axe into the ice but I belong to the less experienced and so I guess my axe came out pretty quickly. The last person was very experienced; I think, he managed to hold the whole group for a moment but then.... Unfortunately you couldn't see from behind what the persons at the beginning of the rope were doing, if they were just slowing down because of a steep spot or because of a crevasse. We came up from the other side from the Almageller Huette.
Thank you for your description. Yes, I was the person who asked via email, too, as I wasn't sure if you would look into this topic again. I don't know what really happened as I was to far behind (fourth person of the rope). (That's why I was asking for a description as I know the crevasse mostly from the inside.) I think our first person came to close to the edge of the crevasse and then wanted to jump. Hence, of course, the rope was not tight between the first and the second person. Unfortunately it wasn't tight in just that situation between the rest either but I am not sure if that would have helped (though I wished it would have been tight than I would not ask this if). Well, nobody will ever be able to answer that. I put my axe into the ice but I belong to the less experienced and so I guess my axe came out pretty quickly. The last person was very experienced; I think, he managed to hold the whole group for a moment but then.... Unfortunately you couldn't see from behind what the persons at the beginning of the rope were doing, if they were just slowing down because of a steep spot or because of a crevasse. We came up from the other side from the Almageller Huette.
In reply to Anonymous:
It's true that the crevasse was difficult to see from the top. It was obvious that there is a crevasse but the actual dimensions and thickness of the snow bridge were quite difficult to see from above.
We were at the Weissmies hut when two of the victims were evacuated to the hut. One man with a bleeding face and a woman who seemed to be okay.
It's always difficult to keep the rope tight when there are many people on the rope. Especially if you are tired you won't react quickly to sudden stops.
If the last person was able to stop the fall for a while it probably had a great impact to minimize the damage to rest of you.
Thanks for sharing your information with us. It must have been an awful afternoon and I can't imagine how you felt.
It's true that the crevasse was difficult to see from the top. It was obvious that there is a crevasse but the actual dimensions and thickness of the snow bridge were quite difficult to see from above.
We were at the Weissmies hut when two of the victims were evacuated to the hut. One man with a bleeding face and a woman who seemed to be okay.
It's always difficult to keep the rope tight when there are many people on the rope. Especially if you are tired you won't react quickly to sudden stops.
If the last person was able to stop the fall for a while it probably had a great impact to minimize the damage to rest of you.
Thanks for sharing your information with us. It must have been an awful afternoon and I can't imagine how you felt.
In reply to Juki:
I guess I put it the wrong way. It was clear that a crevasse would come but it was not clear for me if our first persons were already there. As far as I can remember I couldn't see the feet of them. There was a little patch of snow hiding it and I couldn't see the crevasse. That's why I also don't know what happened there... oh well...
And yes, it might be that the short stop, only for a moment, might have turned at least me in that way that I landed on my feet and saved my life but it might also have cost the live of our last person as a pack of snow landed on him. We were trying to dig them out as quickly as possible but it was to late for both of them.
I guess I put it the wrong way. It was clear that a crevasse would come but it was not clear for me if our first persons were already there. As far as I can remember I couldn't see the feet of them. There was a little patch of snow hiding it and I couldn't see the crevasse. That's why I also don't know what happened there... oh well...
And yes, it might be that the short stop, only for a moment, might have turned at least me in that way that I landed on my feet and saved my life but it might also have cost the live of our last person as a pack of snow landed on him. We were trying to dig them out as quickly as possible but it was to late for both of them.
Very sobering account and thanks again to both of you for sharing what must have been one of the more tramatic experiences of your life.
I think I know the general area where this happened from my climb there last summer and shudder to think the number of people - including us - that likely treated what is now obviously a deadly zone with not enough respect (talking about me and my experience, not this event, I wasn't there).
My lesson here is that I need to treat crevasses a lot more carefully going forward. This accident could have happened to a lot of people, myself included.
I think I know the general area where this happened from my climb there last summer and shudder to think the number of people - including us - that likely treated what is now obviously a deadly zone with not enough respect (talking about me and my experience, not this event, I wasn't there).
My lesson here is that I need to treat crevasses a lot more carefully going forward. This accident could have happened to a lot of people, myself included.
In reply to John Blab:
I climbed that route on 13 July so must have walked over that snow bridge. I agree that its a sobering thought indeed.
I climbed that route on 13 July so must have walked over that snow bridge. I agree that its a sobering thought indeed.
We came downover that glacier on July 10th, there's a photo of it at http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=50961 - Is this where the accident happened?
In reply to Long John:
No, it's not.
> http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=50961 - Is this where the accident happened?
No, it's not.
In reply to Anonymous:
Hello...
First at all, I'm sorry about your friends. I was there when you were in crevasse. I'm not very happy about people and us reaction... They tried to take out us but they couldn't. I don't know if a more quickly intervention could be help to your friends.
Situation was incredible. No mobile phone, no ice screws... I gave an anchor to people, you used it trying to dig your friends... it is inside crevasse now. We passed a rope to people, some screws... Personally, I think we had a lot of communication problems with people, because we can't speak german... We must to speak with rescue people, because other mountaineers had not a mobile.
I think It was a difficult crevasse, due above slope. But I think crevasse was visible. When we were climb up, we see it was a dangerous crevasse.
I see you don't have so clear what happen. Are you czech people in old Hohsaas refuge?
Regards
Hello...
First at all, I'm sorry about your friends. I was there when you were in crevasse. I'm not very happy about people and us reaction... They tried to take out us but they couldn't. I don't know if a more quickly intervention could be help to your friends.
Situation was incredible. No mobile phone, no ice screws... I gave an anchor to people, you used it trying to dig your friends... it is inside crevasse now. We passed a rope to people, some screws... Personally, I think we had a lot of communication problems with people, because we can't speak german... We must to speak with rescue people, because other mountaineers had not a mobile.
I think It was a difficult crevasse, due above slope. But I think crevasse was visible. When we were climb up, we see it was a dangerous crevasse.
I see you don't have so clear what happen. Are you czech people in old Hohsaas refuge?
Regards
In reply to mapicas:
Oh, I am sorry, we thought it was the anchor from another person and I just brought it to the post office this morning. I am very sorry.
And well, it would not have helped the other two if things went better above. A person from the Air Zermatt told me last Friday that they died because of their injuries and they did not suffocate. And yes, I am sure that the first two person have seen the crevasse clearly. I am not sure about the third one. So things that one might learn: If you come to a crevasse tell the whole group, especially if the snow bridge looks scary. And then, maybe the use of icescrews more often might be better but of course, you are also slower then. And if you are five people at a rope then you are slower anyway. But I am not sure if we could have hold the group if all of us had a tight rope (except for the second one who had to give rope for the first one to jump) and the axe already in the snow/ice (actually, the second one had his axe already in the snow as he says). I really have my doubts.
But thank you for your help! We would have had lots of icescrews (but down there the use was too late)...
Oh, I am sorry, we thought it was the anchor from another person and I just brought it to the post office this morning. I am very sorry.
And well, it would not have helped the other two if things went better above. A person from the Air Zermatt told me last Friday that they died because of their injuries and they did not suffocate. And yes, I am sure that the first two person have seen the crevasse clearly. I am not sure about the third one. So things that one might learn: If you come to a crevasse tell the whole group, especially if the snow bridge looks scary. And then, maybe the use of icescrews more often might be better but of course, you are also slower then. And if you are five people at a rope then you are slower anyway. But I am not sure if we could have hold the group if all of us had a tight rope (except for the second one who had to give rope for the first one to jump) and the axe already in the snow/ice (actually, the second one had his axe already in the snow as he says). I really have my doubts.
But thank you for your help! We would have had lots of icescrews (but down there the use was too late)...
In reply to mapicas:
As I know where the snow anchor went it should be possible to send it to you (not really in near future but still...).
As I know where the snow anchor went it should be possible to send it to you (not really in near future but still...).
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