UKC

http://www.chamonet.com/whats_new_article.php?id_whats_new=4083&id_back...

Has the hospital that was once the best trauma unit in the world and an authority on cold injuries just become a GP surgery? Surely this decision is going to cost lives. I'm sure that Sallanches hospital is more than capable of dealing with the major injuries that occur in the Chamonix area but it is really a year round climbing/skiing area so I can't believe that it doesn't have a full time A@E department. If they close the Meteo office too (safe for the moment, but for how long) then climbing in Chamonix is going to get a whole lot more serious. I bet the taxi firms will be making a killing though. It cost me 20euros just to get from Flagiere to the hospital when I injured my ankle this summer.
Very sad that the people in power can't see the importance of this hospital.

In reply to liz j: i'm not sure it is such a big deal to be honest - if someone is rescued by helicopter, then it is minutes to get them along to sallanches.

and if they weren't rescued by helicopter then it can't be more than 20mins by screaming ambulance to sallanches.

it is also only being closed during the off-season so unlikely there is a tacul like situation with high numbers needing to be rescued.

having a better equipped hospital further down the valley means that service for the residents of the vallee d'arve have better medical attention.

to be honest though, without an idea of how many people will die from this closure and how much it costs to run it is difficult to actually have a definitive opinion.

i suspect in the inter-season the a&e is empty for much of the time though.

In reply to Tobias at Home:
You're wrong, liz is right. There are long periods when helicopters can't land at Sallanches due to inversion fog - neatly coinciding with the ski season. The operating facility is completely closed. The specialist doctors that liz refers to have left. The few remaining facilities it does have close at 6:00pm. There is almost no inter season anymore - summer just runs into winter climbing into skiing, non stop. She's right Cham needs a hospital but will lose it.

In reply to JTM:

but the hospital is only closing interseason - during the ski season it will be open. i do find it hard to believe that you get inversions down in sallanches when there isn't one in the more enclosed chamonix valley as well - but that is jsut a guess.

The operating facility is completely closed. The specialist doctors that liz refers to have left. The few remaining facilities it does have close at 6:00pm.

is the operating theatre closed year-round? i'm still not convinced at the number of lives lost by the combination of being able to fly from and to chamonix but not to sallanches and the extra 20mins tme before treatment due to an ambulance ride - bearign in mind that if a helicopter hasn't rescued the patient from the mountain, the crucial golden hour is over anyway.


There is almost no inter season anymore - summer just runs into winter climbing into skiing, non stop. She's right Cham needs a hospital but will lose it.

there is most definitely an interseason! the number of people in the mountains over the last two months when the lifts are closed is probably measured in the 10s per day as opposed to 100,000 in the ski season/summer!!

also, what hospital do people from contamines, portes du soleil, morzine etc. get taken to? sallanches is more convenient than chamonix for them so a better service there could be saving lives...

there's only so many doctors/euros to go round sadly...

In reply to Tobias at Home:
The hospital, which was brand new and state of the art in treating trauma and cold related injuries was effectively closed down on 14 December 2001. Only a minimal service was retained. This included a handful of staff in the emergency dept to deal with minor injuries, and the private radiologie dept. These both close at 6:00pm. There has been no operating theatre since the general closure. It will not be open during "the season". This closure was part of a government plan to centralize hospital services and affected many more towns and hospitals than just Cham, the only difference being that those towns weren't selling themselves as the world Mecca for mountaineering and off piste skiing... I went to the last meeting which was held to try and persuade authorities that the the hospital should be retained. It was held at ENSA on 13 December 2001 and was attended by hundreds and was a very emotional affair as the general feeling was that it was a lost cause. Look here:
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/dmtmcham/defense/index.htm

Very occasionally the inversion comes into the chamonix valley, but more often stops just below les Houches / Servoz.

If you think that there is no longer an interseason then just plough back through the archives of this site: Camptocamp.org Sure, the town is dead and shops closed and there are fewer foreigners, but the mountains are full of locals and folk from the surrounding areas of Haute Savoie and Savoie and Valais. Towards the end of October I remember a post from someone who'd climbed the NFace Droites and reported up to 15 people on the Ginat and only a few less on the Colton... The Chardonnet was mobbed up to mid November... and before all that was finished ski tourers were out again enjoying the early snowfalls and avalanches. I was ski touring yesterday in fabulous powder.

I agree casualties from Morzine etc have to be taken to Sallanches or Geneva, but remember that Cham is full in summer as well, not a sleepy little backwater like a lot of real ski resorts. I take issue with your figures of 100,000 per day... remember the discussion is about Cham.

The thing that really pisses everyone off and that no-one can come to terms with is that the hospital was purpose built for Cham and it's dangerous mountain activities and filled with the best specialists in their field only to be closed shortly afterwards by the inflexible bumbling of Paris. Don't forget that the maternity dept also disappeared so true Chamoniards are now a thing of the past unless they are born at home!

In reply to JTM: Sorry that should read - "if you think there is still an interseason..."

In reply to JTM:

i read somewhere there were 200k beds in the chamonix valley...seeing as there are only 15k residents, i just figured most of the visitors in the peak season would be in the mountains.


that sounds about right!! don't think there is an efficient government in the world...

personally, i would love for chamonix to have a world-class hospital by the way and i didn't know all the history of it being closed so soon after opening - i still think centralising treatment in "superhospitals" is generally the best idea though - both in the uk and france - modern medicine seems to have a lots of expensive, specialised equipment that is under utilised in small hospitals.

i am also jealous of everyone getting out skiing...i'm trying hard not to look at webcams (don't get back till the new year )

In reply to Tobias at Home:
i read somewhere there were 200k beds in the chamonix valley...seeing as there are only 15k residents, i just figured most of the visitors in the peak season would be in the mountains.

Think of it this way:
Take the 10 or so huts and put 100 people in each one (yes, I know, the Gouter will have close to 200...) That's 1000.
Now be generous and double it for people doing day routes from lifts etc. Thats 2000.
Then be silly and double that for fun... 4000
And you're still 96,000 over. Even if I'm 100% out you're still 92,000 over!

In reply to JTM: the valley lifts take about 1000 people per hour so there must be 20k skiing on a powder sunday...so i'm only 80,000 over or so in that case.......

In reply to Tobias at Home:
Yep, frightening isn't it. And that's precisely why -
1.) Chamonix needs a hospital.
2.) I NEVER ski in the valley!

In reply to Tobias at Home:

Whilst not wanting to open up this topic again a couple of interesting things turned up on the telly tonight - actually the second was tragic...

1) 140,000 (yes, that's right) people were rescued last winter from France's ski pistes and treated in hospitals. That's just off prepared pistes!

2) Today a 56 year old man suffering from heart problems was picked up by a SAMU ambulance. Over the period of 6 hours they tried 27 hospitals in the Parisien region, to get him admitted. During this time he suffered 3 cardiac arrests - and died. A spokesman for one of the hospitals said they just didn't have the staffing they required and had to close down beds. Is France now reaping the rewards of Martine Aubry's 35 week?

In reply to JTM:
Is France now reaping the rewards of Martine Aubry's 35 week?

Sarko's public spending cuts in order to cut the taxes of the well-off are a much more likely reason.

In reply to JTM:


neither of those points in isolation make an argument for whether or not chamonix needs a hospital!!

In reply to Tobias at Home:

No, just thought the numbers were incredible - that doesn't include any rescues in the mountains, just those by pisteurs.

The second is just plain sad. M Aubry is now the socialist party president - still I suppose that's almost one better than S Royale. They haven't got a brain cell between them.

In reply to JTM:

...but a friend who is a nurse at Sallanches told us that on the 27 December there was a 5 hour waiting time in the A + E...

In reply to Squidward Tenticles:

No, these problems started a long time before King Sarko's reign.

In reply to JTM:

There is always a problem in funding public services, and not just in France. However, it is clear that whilst the emphasis in the past was on preserving whatever level of service was possible within the restrictions set by the funds available, Sarko is much more focused on cutting services wherever he can get away with it. Similarly, look how Sarko's cuts in funding to Meteo France means that a number of local weather stations in mountain areas face closure, including the one in Chamonix.

In reply to Squidward Tenticles:

I spoke to Gilles Brunot just the other day and he thinks Cham Meteo will be saved. Fingers crossed. Just out of interest, if you don't know him, he's worked there for 20 years and is also a very good and keen climber - check out his site:
http://www.escalade-74.com/
If it looks like Cham Meteo is on the way out it will definitely appear on that site.

Now then, if things had gone otherwise, do you really think Segolene Royale knows what Meteo France is?