UKC

In reply to Morgan Woods:

it was on 8a.nu

In reply to Simon Lee:

Interesting idea but exceptionally bleak!

In reply to Daniel Armitage:

To phrase it less bleakly then (assuming you have no dependents)if the future appears to hold little promise then there is far less self-limiting stuff to hold you back from realising your potential in going for it on climbing challenges that inspire you.

In reply to Simon Lee:

Well put Simon.

This is interesting. Per the discussion about British standards on UKB a bit back. Around the time of Johnny's quote (17/18 years ago) we worked out that around 25 climbers in this country had done 8b or harder. This was when the cutting edge was 8c+ so 8b was three grades off the top.

Now look at how many climbers in the UK are operating at a level three grades off the cutting edge (8c+) and it certainly isn't 25!

The increase in popularity of bouldering (and trad) among the stronger climbers is a factor but I think some of it must also be to do with the dole culture that was around at that time which meant that there were a lot of climbers with a lot of time to just train - climb - repeat.

In reply to victorclimber:

Well if thats true, I'll be fine

(lol)

In reply to seagull:

Ste Mac
Ben Moon
Vickers
Simpson
Carson
Bolger
Smitton
Pasquill

Anyone i've missed?

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Gaskins
Smith
Dunning

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

MacLeod

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Sorry I didn't point out that nearly all of the 25 were also still operating at that level and had probably climbed 8b in the previous year.

You forgot Stevie!

In reply to seagull:

I was thinking of bold climbing rather than sport routes but it is an enigma that with one standout exception the general level of sport climbing redpoints is markedly low. Thinking about it, the training requirements to realise your potential in bouldering in terms of time out in any given week is pretty low as shorter sessions and longer rest are physiological constraints. As I understand it UK bouldering standards are not far off the pace. But, to fully realise potential in indoor comp climbing or high end sport climbing is a single minded and virtually full time occupation especially in the UK where training at the crag does not have the same breadth of options to build up the required modern day endurance for the hardest routes - or at least that's my perception. Its pretty frusrtrating how much the limestone is out of action due to seepage.

In reply to seagull:


Not currently in the UK. We'd all be climbing 8c+ if we lived somewhere sunny, with endless routes to go at, and had talent, and strength, and determination, and focus....
Maybe not.

In reply to Serpico:

If you're going to be pedantic Serps then Tom Bolger lives in Spain and was on Adam's list!

Point is if you knock off the ones who no longer operate at that level and/or those who are ex-pats then the list is even shorter.

In reply to seagull:
I was born to be pedantic.
I wondered about Tom but wasn't sure whether the move was permanent.
Not currently operating at that level, but Mitchell and Welford?

In reply to seagull: So, cutting edge is meant to be, climbing in the UK on sport at least 8b or above.

Maybe since the 80's more people are climbing further afield and more people just boulder.

The numbers I think would rocket if bouldering was included.

In reply to north country boy:

I agree with the last part of your sentence but not the first. All full time jobs are hugely time consuming, 37.5 hours at minimum, add in half an hour for lunch and travel then I'd say any job will 'own' you between 8.30am and 5.30pm five days a week. Even the most committed professional athletes have lives outside climbing so to expect climbers not to just doesn't fit with reality. Bear in mind that due to the multi-disciplinary nature of climbing training seems to take longer than in other sports (guessing here but I know a decent session at the wall can take hours and going out doors takes even longer before you even get into weights, stretching, dead hanging etc).

It'd be interesting to know whether Rich Simpson was working full time when he was training his hardest and if he was whther or not he thought he could have done more if he wasn't. Reading between the lines it certainly seems that having to work whilst training contributed to his relatively early burn out/disenchantment with climbing.

In reply to Tyler:

Simpson was doing 35 hrs a week training. Like a full time job.

In reply to Serpico:

Which 8c+ did Mitchell do? And does Welford mean we are allowing generally accepted upgrades (i.e the Bastard). In which case add Nic Sellars to your list.

Didn't we make exactly this list a few months ago?

In reply to Bob kate bob:

No 8b being 3 grades off the cutting edge when Johnny said what was quoted in the OP.

I'm saying the equivalent is 8c+ now.

In reply to seagull:

Whilst we're being pedantic the actual quote was 8b+ so only two grades off the world and UK cutting edge.

In reply to seagull:


I know but was he doing that in addition to a job and if so was the job restricitng him in anyway?

In reply to Tyler:

Yep, thought we did. List of British climbers to have ever climbed 8c+.

Ben Moon many
Steve McClure many
Neil Carson Big Bang
John Dunne Total Eclipse
Stew Watson in Austria
Steve Dunning Hubble
Rich Simpson Many
John Gaskins Hubble VNB
Malc Smith various
Dave MacCloud many
Stevie Haston
John Welford The Bastard?
Jerry Moffat Liquid Amber? Evolution
Tom Bolger
Ryan Pasquill
Paul Smitton
James Mcaffie - Madagascar thing
Nic Sellars

Of those, who did so holding down a full time job? I think Steve was working full-time when he ticked evolution. John Welford too. All the others might have been students or full-time climbers. So it looks like 8c+ is the modern limit for (British) climbers holding down a full-time job.

In reply to midgets of the world unite:

He didn't it appears. Every time we do this list I can never remember whether Tony had climbed 8c+ or not.
He should have.

In reply to midgets of the world unite:

Even more worrying nearly half of those were on the list of 25 who'd done 8b 17 years ago!

In reply to midgets of the world unite:

I'm not saying it can't be done, I was just questioning NCBs contention that having a job doesn't restrict people's ability to reach their potential. I know if I didn't have to wor I'd train harder and climb harder, at the same time though if I was more committed I could train harder but this isn't about someone like me. I'd contend that the truly committed would climb harder without a job than with and I certainly feel that to train to the body's max and work full time is unsustainable in the long run.

In reply to Tyler:

Surely that's a statement of the obvious? Probably around 30-35 hours a week of training (plus time on rock at the weekend) is necessary to truly reach maximum potential and you can't fit that around a full time job.

However, it's more complicated than that. Some people would never be able to withstand that intensity of training, and 3-4 hours a day, 2-3 days a week might represent the best amount of training to reach their potential, and that's easily done with a full time job, given sufficient commitment!

To be honest, for most british climbers it's not the amount of time they spend training, so much as what they do in training that limits their ability to climb routes. I'm talking about a lack of structure, ignoring base endurance work, too much resting in a session, etc, etc. If you're a full time climber this doesn't matter so much, but by getting this right I think it's quite feasible for the talented to climb 8c+ with a full time job.

In reply to Tyler:

I agree with all of that.

In reply to midgets of the world unite:

And most of that!

You're both right.

In reply to Adam Lincoln: Person?

In reply to Tyler:

Its a bit academic though. Full time work is a choice rather than an obligation. If you want it enough and full-time work is holding you back you just jack it in and live in a van. You just don't want enough - like most of the rest of us. Realising 80% of yopur potential in the areas of your life that matter to you is preferable to realising 100% of your climbing potential. Well that's my excuse - a balanced scorecard being a better life to live for most of us if less inspirational for others.

In reply to MorganPreecey:

Which person?

In reply to Simon Lee:


Is it still possible to live on the dole with enough money to live, eat properly, travel to climb and also have access to the necessary training facilities? If the economic down turn continues I'll probably find out! Sadly I think I'm in that group of people who's body gives up after a few hours training a week although I guess even that can be worked on.

In reply to Simon Lee:

Yeah c'mon Tyler, leave your cosy harem behind and let us introduce you to a world of squalor.
Your education continues tomorrow in The Cave.

In reply to:

There's full time jobs and then there's full time jobs. The two are not the same, as I'm finding out. There's also the next level up, the Full Time Job. I'm not there yet, and hope never to be. If you have a Full Time Job, climbing is going to be impossible unless you quit sleep.

In reply to RupertD:

Oh dear - there is a worryingly high average grade on this thread now with you, Midgets and maybe Morgan Preecy being actual contenders to get on the list.

In reply to midgets of the world unite:
Did Dawes ever do any bolt clipping? Did he link Wizard ridge on TR? Surely this can't be hugely far off 8c if he did?

In reply to Serpico:


Squalor and I are not strangers, I'm afraid the harem is far from the Heffner-esque world you imagine it to be! Unfotunately I can't make the cave as I have a 40th Birthday party in Winchester this weekend but I will be back next weekend when you begin work on the many extensions. Good luck with RA.

In reply to joswald:


Yes, no and who knows!

The film Buoux 8c (one of the best climbing films ever!) shows JD climbing Taboo Zizi in Frnace whihc is 8b. He also did the Very Big and the Very Small on slate wihc is a sport route but a slab

In reply to joswald:

you havin a laugh?
slate quarries....

wizard ridge or whatever ppl want to call it is a bit of a joke/none route

In reply to mark s:


I don't agree. It looks an incredibly tenuous piece of climbing, bridging out of chimney or not. Whether it will ever be led is another story.

In reply to midgets of the world unite:

An interesting point would be how many of these people would be climbing 9a regularly if they moved to France/Spain. Tom Bolgors route grade jumped up massively when he moved to spain, Steve McClure would probably climb loads of 9a/harder routes if he lived in Spain. Pasquill did his 8c+ on a short trip to France so in theory could do lots more if he lived there.

In reply to lx:

I am sure you would be up there in the high 8's if you live in France or Spain Alex! Hope your well....

In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Its a nice thought! I am well thanks, finger nearly better. Hope you ok Good effort on stuff in Parisellas.

Well does any know if Jonny he did link WR?
I remember him saying on HG that you could fall of any move on that project.

In reply to mark s: johnny spent some time 88/89 with Jerry Moffat and ,Sean myles and Ben moon at buoux-doing Le mauvais Sang(hard 8b) ,Taboo zizi(8a+/b?) amongst others..

In reply to midgets of the world unite: How the heck do you train for 35 hours a week - that's 7 hours a day!
Where do the rest days fit in?
You can compete in the Olympics and train far less than that - or so I am led to believe.

pmc

In reply to baron:
You condition yourself.

In reply to baron:
Say 6 days per week, that would be just under 6 hours on each training day. Include an hour for running, stretching each day = 5 hours climbing. Do 2 session each day = 2.5hr per session. 30min warm up, 1.5hr quality training, 1hr capilarisation at the end of each session. Liable to make you rather good if your body could take it I'd think.

In reply to abarro81: Isn't training for hours in order to climb a route that lasts for less than five minutes a bit like training for a marathon when you are a hundred metre sprinter?

pmc

In reply to baron:

I can't think of a sarcastic enough reply.

In reply to baron:

Thats going right next to my Mohammed Ali "The fight is won ...etc" quote, in 3 inch high letters above my bed, to be repeated until sleep takes me.

Pure UKClass.

In reply to Adam Lincoln:



How about 52 year old Stevie Haston.
By the way, to OP, how about Bernabe Fernandez (working in department store and 9b plus.

In reply to Tyler: I think the main point I was trying to make is, if you ahve a job which allows you to rest physically, then you can still climb exceptionally hard if you are committed enough the rest of the time. However try carrying logs or breezeblocks all day then train in the evenings...... the body would say no before the mind did....

In reply to martin heywood:
Already been discussed above. Has Andy Harris?

In reply to north country boy:

You wouldn't need to train then, you'd be super strong from pinching breeze blocks all day.

In reply to andi turner:
Yes but would you ever recover enough to climb optimally? Your recovery would improve.
JAmes

In reply to victorclimber:
But how much your recovery would improve I don't know.
James

In reply to andi turner:
And when you could crush the breeze blocks at will you'd know you were ready...

In reply to victorclimber:
Well, since I changed my job from a sedentary desk job to a much more physical profession my climbing grade has gone through the roof...and I recover much quicker

In reply to Wide_Mouth_Frog:
Not up to 8b though

Chris Sharma has done virtually no training (he said at the lecture that he's too lazy), and he's the world's best redpointer. So you obviously don't need 35 hours a week dedicated to campussing, fingerboarding, running, gym, etc in order to climb 8b.

In reply to Strife:

Yeah, he just spends 35 hours a week climbing.

In reply to Strife:

True but you need time to climb outdoors to get strong like Sharma which you don't have if nailled to your desk 5 days a week.

The "average" olympic podium athlete has trained for 10,000 hours in order to achieve that podium position. Thats 3 hours per day every day for 10 years. How many climbers do that amount before claiming they are at their peak? Admittedly there are some lazy buggers cos swimmers (for eg) do MUCH more than 3 hrs / day. When climbing becomes an olympic sport, training standards will rise and then so will grades.

In reply to Strife: Does not matter if its outdoors or indoors if you are training towards a goal if its the more efficient to train your weakness's indoors then train indoors.
Climbing the sort of volume Sharma probaly climbs right now(outdoors) makes the 'to lazy to train' argument/comment a bit redundant.Besides there is more to redpointing in modern climbing (as away to measure a level of improvement).Personaly I quite like the idea of seperating training from climbing and am inspired to do both-in that way-mixing the 2 when i like.Mentaly it gives some relief from having to put pressure on myself to be always trying to attain my main goals.
The comp climbers from spain and france when they stop training for comps and possibly focus on long term redpointing(if they have the mentality for this?)have only shown a little of their potencial in this context watch that space!
Back to the original point I reckon it can be done(i do not climb this level though)but time management can be tricky and you have to really train intelligently as well (as part of the time management process).