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Just reading Psychovertical which I think is fantastic and easy to read. Can people recommend any others to read that are of a similar nature? I've tried "Touching the Void" and although a great story, couldn't get to the end. Psychovertical I pick up at every opportunity as it has short chapters and Andy Kirkpatrick writes about his life so honestly.
Also started "The Wall" by Jeff Long, "The Totem Pole" by Paul Pritchard but never finished either, again, good stories but not easy for me to read.
Did read "Climbing Free" by Lynn Hill and the Royal Robbins book. Both read quite quickly!
Also started "The Wall" by Jeff Long, "The Totem Pole" by Paul Pritchard but never finished either, again, good stories but not easy for me to read.
Did read "Climbing Free" by Lynn Hill and the Royal Robbins book. Both read quite quickly!
In reply to VPJB:
try Deep Play by Paul Pritchard - that's chapters about different things rather than one continuous narrative, iirc. I think it's one of the best climbing books I've ever read.
try Deep Play by Paul Pritchard - that's chapters about different things rather than one continuous narrative, iirc. I think it's one of the best climbing books I've ever read.
In reply to VPJB: Get Andy's vid - I enjoyed it.
In reply to VPJB:
I'd second Tall Clare's recommendation, Deep Play is one of the best climbing books I've read. Feeding the Rat by Al Alvarez is also brilliant.
I'd second Tall Clare's recommendation, Deep Play is one of the best climbing books I've read. Feeding the Rat by Al Alvarez is also brilliant.
In reply to climbingpixie:
I'd second Climbingpixie's recommendation about Feeding The Rat - by the end of it I wished I'd known Mo Anthoine and could call round at his for a cup of tea and a blether about his adventures.
I'd second Climbingpixie's recommendation about Feeding The Rat - by the end of it I wished I'd known Mo Anthoine and could call round at his for a cup of tea and a blether about his adventures.
In reply to VPJB:
yep, feeding the rat. nothing else comes close.
i liked psychovertical, tho found the 'everything was f*cking crazy and i thought i was going to die but didnt' scenario annoying buy the 4th time around (out of 100).
i appreciate that its true, i just think andy k's writing style is a bit limited (or was when he wrote that). for all that he goes into it - hes not a great writer. awesome yarn teller, fantastic narrator, hysterical observationist and obviously highly committed climber - but spanned across 300-odd pages it got repeditive, especially the second half where the alternating chapters were also nasty tales on big walls.
i thought his stuff about growing up, work and a thatcher childhood was a better read than the climbing stuff.
his personality does shine thru well and he seems like a great guy well aware of his fallability, just a bit too keen to go on about it.
his literary set ups of building stressful situations then resolving them rabbit-out-of-the-hat and self depreciating antedotes got tiring i felt.
we know you survived andy, you wrote the f*cking book!
but still a good read. if you love big walls and skyhooking it will be like porn.
yep, feeding the rat. nothing else comes close.
i liked psychovertical, tho found the 'everything was f*cking crazy and i thought i was going to die but didnt' scenario annoying buy the 4th time around (out of 100).
i appreciate that its true, i just think andy k's writing style is a bit limited (or was when he wrote that). for all that he goes into it - hes not a great writer. awesome yarn teller, fantastic narrator, hysterical observationist and obviously highly committed climber - but spanned across 300-odd pages it got repeditive, especially the second half where the alternating chapters were also nasty tales on big walls.
i thought his stuff about growing up, work and a thatcher childhood was a better read than the climbing stuff.
his personality does shine thru well and he seems like a great guy well aware of his fallability, just a bit too keen to go on about it.
his literary set ups of building stressful situations then resolving them rabbit-out-of-the-hat and self depreciating antedotes got tiring i felt.
we know you survived andy, you wrote the f*cking book!
but still a good read. if you love big walls and skyhooking it will be like porn.
In reply to VPJB: Yet another vote for Feeding the Rat...
If you want something a touch more cerebral, I really enjoyed 'Mountains of the Mind' which is a kind of history of mountaineering, but a psychological history - the changing attitudes towards mountains and climbing over the centuries.
If you want something scary, read 'Into Thin Air' - a really gripping, first hand account of the 1996 Everest disaster.
If you want something a touch more cerebral, I really enjoyed 'Mountains of the Mind' which is a kind of history of mountaineering, but a psychological history - the changing attitudes towards mountains and climbing over the centuries.
If you want something scary, read 'Into Thin Air' - a really gripping, first hand account of the 1996 Everest disaster.
In reply to VPJB: Deep play and Feeding the rat too. But also Postcards from the ledge by Greg Childs, Moments of doubt by David Roberts and Close calls by John Long (which is fricking brilliant - all sorts of adventures, not just climbing and sooooooo easy to read!)
In reply to VPJB:
If it is the vignette style prose you are after then try ‘The Games Climbers Play”, Edited by Jim Perrin. I’d also echo the praise for Feeding the Rat.
If I were to throw some other books of similar style – One Man’s Mountains (Tom Patey), Starlight and Storms (Gaston Rebuffet), and Learning to Breathe (Andy Cave – don’t both with his second book).
If it is the vignette style prose you are after then try ‘The Games Climbers Play”, Edited by Jim Perrin. I’d also echo the praise for Feeding the Rat.
If I were to throw some other books of similar style – One Man’s Mountains (Tom Patey), Starlight and Storms (Gaston Rebuffet), and Learning to Breathe (Andy Cave – don’t both with his second book).
In reply to The Bantam: Games Climbers Play is Ken Wilson (I think) - Jim Perrin edited 'Mirror in the Cliffs' (both are full of short pieces from various magazines so don't really have a style, other than 'varied'
In reply to VPJB: Try The Burgess Book of Lies. Probably the funniest thing I have ever read, quite intense in places (the account of Al Rouse's death on K2 was quite shocking) and very well written.
In reply to ice.solo: Even without bearing in mind that writing must not come easy for him, I think it's a superb effort, and found it a rivetting read.
Guess your life must be a lot more exciting.
Guess your life must be a lot more exciting.
In reply to VPJB:
Another vote for 'Learning to Breathe'. I also liked Steve House's book for showing what it takes (not all of it admirable) to do the stuff he does - gets better in the latter parts, though maybe not as readable as Andy K, I thought.
Another vote for 'Learning to Breathe'. I also liked Steve House's book for showing what it takes (not all of it admirable) to do the stuff he does - gets better in the latter parts, though maybe not as readable as Andy K, I thought.
In reply to VPJB:
Try to get a copy of Total Alpinism by Rene Desmaison.
Another vote for Deep Play and Feeding the Rat. I enjoyed one of Dennis Gray's books as well, can't recall which one.
Try to get a copy of Total Alpinism by Rene Desmaison.
Another vote for Deep Play and Feeding the Rat. I enjoyed one of Dennis Gray's books as well, can't recall which one.
In reply to VPJB: Mark Twight's book is an interesting if a little intense read... he's a punk through and through and don't let the short smart haircut fool you!
In reply to VPJB:
If you like the mix of autobiography and chapters focussed on various climbing ventures then Reinhold Messner's Free Spirit is worth a read. Would second Feeding the Rat and Learning to Breathe.
If you like the mix of autobiography and chapters focussed on various climbing ventures then Reinhold Messner's Free Spirit is worth a read. Would second Feeding the Rat and Learning to Breathe.
If what you liked about Andy K is his dry self-deprecating humour, I definitely second the Tom Patey recommendation - it's the gold standard for that. Some of Mick Fowler's stuff is quite good in a similar way - though pretty uneven. (You really get the impression he's bashing it out between routes and junkets; but you know, when you're funny you're funny.)
Another very funny climbing book is *The Ascent of Rum Doodle* by W.E. Bowman. More satirical, not subtle.
If on the other hand what you liked about AK is his honesty & interest in the world outside climbing, I think I agree with the Pritchard - *Deep Play*. It's a bit dated now, and ages since I read it, but I think I remember a really vivid snapshot of Thatcher's Britain and the context of climbing in north Wales at the time.
From what you've said, I'd advise you to steer clear of Jim Perrin. He's the don, and no mistake, but like so many climbing authors, a wee bit on the worthy (not to mention wordy) side.
Another very funny climbing book is *The Ascent of Rum Doodle* by W.E. Bowman. More satirical, not subtle.
If on the other hand what you liked about AK is his honesty & interest in the world outside climbing, I think I agree with the Pritchard - *Deep Play*. It's a bit dated now, and ages since I read it, but I think I remember a really vivid snapshot of Thatcher's Britain and the context of climbing in north Wales at the time.
From what you've said, I'd advise you to steer clear of Jim Perrin. He's the don, and no mistake, but like so many climbing authors, a wee bit on the worthy (not to mention wordy) side.
In reply to mike kann:
he's a punk through and through and don't let the short smart haircut fool you!
Yea, but what a conceited self-glorifying arrogant wanker! - wild climber for sure, but it saddens me that anyone on UKC rates him as a writer, but there you go - no accounting for taste. If Dave Macleod wrote like that can you imagine the slating he'd get on here?!
(Or maybe it's all a big ironic joke. Or maybe Twait's book is really ghost-written by Andy Kirkpatrick taking the piss.)
Paul Pritchard's *Deep Play* is similar in some ways - disrespectful, in-your-face - but so much more honest and imaginative.
he's a punk through and through and don't let the short smart haircut fool you!
Yea, but what a conceited self-glorifying arrogant wanker! - wild climber for sure, but it saddens me that anyone on UKC rates him as a writer, but there you go - no accounting for taste. If Dave Macleod wrote like that can you imagine the slating he'd get on here?!
(Or maybe it's all a big ironic joke. Or maybe Twait's book is really ghost-written by Andy Kirkpatrick taking the piss.)
Paul Pritchard's *Deep Play* is similar in some ways - disrespectful, in-your-face - but so much more honest and imaginative.
> If you like the mix of autobiography and chapters focussed on various climbing ventures then Reinhold Messner's Free Spirit is worth a read. Would second Feeding the Rat and Learning to Breathe.
And Messner?!
Sorry - I don't mean to stir, but the OP liked Andy Kirkpatrick: I'd be astonished of anyone who liked AK enough to post on here looking for recommendations could stomach him for more than a few pages that earnest self-congratulation.
Sorry - I should keep out of it - it's just there are so many really awful books about climbing (generally written by great climbers of course). Like most people here I'm addicted to them - I'll read them anyway - but that doesn't make them good (or still less, what the OP was looking for)
In reply to Darragh: Fair enough I'm an intellectual midget with no taste. Although it's got to be said the statement you just made is probably no less arrogant than Mark Twight.
Yes he's an arrogant egocentric maniac, but that was partly what I found interesting. I did not think it was necessarily an eloquent bit of writing, but as in insight into a mans inner turmoil I quite liked it. At least it's not dull like Lynn Hills book, which is the height of watching paint dry...
Yes he's an arrogant egocentric maniac, but that was partly what I found interesting. I did not think it was necessarily an eloquent bit of writing, but as in insight into a mans inner turmoil I quite liked it. At least it's not dull like Lynn Hills book, which is the height of watching paint dry...
> Yes he's an arrogant egocentric maniac,
But isn't that statement of yours just as arrogant a thing to say about him as what I did? I'm with you I think: he's probably got his virtues, but that personality is just asking to be kicked about a bit.
Anyway, I concede I've got strong evaluative views about books, and about spectacularly modest climbers. But one difference between me and Twaight (aside from the pretty obvious ones about climbing ability etc.) is that I'm not paid and praised for writing books.
In reply to Darragh: Not really. He pretty openly admits that his need for being the best and proving to everybody else that they are shit is what makes him good. If that's not an arrogant egocentric maniac then I don't know what is... as far as his climbing is a concerned, it's what makes him as good as he is/was, and that's what got me about it, that he had sufficient self belief to do the crazy things he had in his head and then to get away with it...
In reply to mike kann:
OK, I misunderstood. I thought you meant "arrogant egocentric maniac" in a demeaning sense (as I did, "conceited self-glorifying arrogant wanker"). (Let's hope he's not reading this or he may misunderstand too and will be gunning for the both of us.)
I think we might both be right - and you just have a higher tolerance of arrogant egocentric insanity than I. But I see how what you find in his book might be interesting.
OK, I misunderstood. I thought you meant "arrogant egocentric maniac" in a demeaning sense (as I did, "conceited self-glorifying arrogant wanker"). (Let's hope he's not reading this or he may misunderstand too and will be gunning for the both of us.)
I think we might both be right - and you just have a higher tolerance of arrogant egocentric insanity than I. But I see how what you find in his book might be interesting.
In reply to Darragh: I think that may be because I read his first book about technique which is genuinely inspiring and actually changed the way I think about climbs and it was interesting to find out what makes a man like this tick. I think he's on a totally different plane to Jerry Moffat in that he has a belief that the only way to be good is through stupidly hard work and suffering in horrendous conditions, whereas Moffat was always chasing the headlines a bit. Twight would be out there making the most of his opportunities and setting himself up for a miserable end, crapping on his nearest and dearest to do it, whilst Moffat was sunning himself in his Porsche...
In reply to Darragh:
Free Spirit is less self-congratulatory and more readable than most Messner, but still admittedly a far cry from Andy K. There is plenty of reasonably paced climbing derring-do in common with Kirkpatrick.
On a separate note I can't believe the OP struggled with Touching the Void, a properly gripping yarn. I wouldn't be recommending a scholarly work like Mountains of the Mind (despite its brilliance) to anyone who can't finish a Joe Simpson.
> [...]
> And Messner?!
> Sorry - I don't mean to stir, but the OP liked Andy Kirkpatrick: I'd be astonished of anyone who liked AK enough to post on here looking for recommendations could stomach him for more than a few pages that earnest self-congratulation.
> And Messner?!
> Sorry - I don't mean to stir, but the OP liked Andy Kirkpatrick: I'd be astonished of anyone who liked AK enough to post on here looking for recommendations could stomach him for more than a few pages that earnest self-congratulation.
Free Spirit is less self-congratulatory and more readable than most Messner, but still admittedly a far cry from Andy K. There is plenty of reasonably paced climbing derring-do in common with Kirkpatrick.
On a separate note I can't believe the OP struggled with Touching the Void, a properly gripping yarn. I wouldn't be recommending a scholarly work like Mountains of the Mind (despite its brilliance) to anyone who can't finish a Joe Simpson.
In reply to Doug:
Sorry - you are dead right. Don't know where I got Perrin from. I think I had it to mind not to recommend 'the Villain' if after something light! Wonderful book - but it's style it best illustrated by the vast number of footnotes!
Agree about the comment on Messner - undoubtedly one of (if not the) greatest Himalayan climbers of all time, but can't write for toffee. Mainly as a result of being a long way up his own proverbial. On a similar great-mountaineer-pants-books warning - avoid anything ghost-written on behalf of Ed Viesturs. His own writing must be truely terrible if paying someone else to write that badly is still an improvement...
> (In reply to The Bantam) Games Climbers Play is Ken Wilson (I think) - Jim Perrin edited 'Mirror in the Cliffs' (both are full of short pieces from various magazines so don't really have a style, other than 'varied'
Sorry - you are dead right. Don't know where I got Perrin from. I think I had it to mind not to recommend 'the Villain' if after something light! Wonderful book - but it's style it best illustrated by the vast number of footnotes!
Agree about the comment on Messner - undoubtedly one of (if not the) greatest Himalayan climbers of all time, but can't write for toffee. Mainly as a result of being a long way up his own proverbial. On a similar great-mountaineer-pants-books warning - avoid anything ghost-written on behalf of Ed Viesturs. His own writing must be truely terrible if paying someone else to write that badly is still an improvement...
In reply to The Ivanator:
Totally agree with both points (it wasn't me who recommended Macfarlane's tract). So let's have it, VPJD, what happened with the Simpson? It's is the crack cocaine of climbing books. I've given it to people who've never even *seen* a mountain and are too lazy to walk to the toilet - and they came back to me a day or two later - mashed, nervous wreaks, *pranging*, begging for more, having stayed up all night finishing it. Maybe VPJD lost the book or something - but even that wouldn't deter many.
While we're on the subject of recommendations for Andy K fans though: can any one recommend any more really good accounts of aid climbing? (preferably solo, though I suppose that's asking a lot!) I guess I'd always kind of thought of it as the climbing equivalent of doing the laundry or a tax return. Psychovertical changed all that for me - I want to read more about hanging from barely-there copperheads, or pegs in those 'expanding flakes' that open as you hammer the next one in so that you need to time carefully transferring your weight from one to the other. That had me sweating, delighted.
> On a separate note I can't believe the OP struggled with Touching the Void, a properly gripping yarn. I wouldn't be recommending a scholarly work like Mountains of the Mind (despite its brilliance) to anyone who can't finish a Joe Simpson.
Totally agree with both points (it wasn't me who recommended Macfarlane's tract). So let's have it, VPJD, what happened with the Simpson? It's is the crack cocaine of climbing books. I've given it to people who've never even *seen* a mountain and are too lazy to walk to the toilet - and they came back to me a day or two later - mashed, nervous wreaks, *pranging*, begging for more, having stayed up all night finishing it. Maybe VPJD lost the book or something - but even that wouldn't deter many.
While we're on the subject of recommendations for Andy K fans though: can any one recommend any more really good accounts of aid climbing? (preferably solo, though I suppose that's asking a lot!) I guess I'd always kind of thought of it as the climbing equivalent of doing the laundry or a tax return. Psychovertical changed all that for me - I want to read more about hanging from barely-there copperheads, or pegs in those 'expanding flakes' that open as you hammer the next one in so that you need to time carefully transferring your weight from one to the other. That had me sweating, delighted.
In reply to Darragh: Sounds like you need to get out there and do some rather than reading about it. Doing it is far scarier than reading about it...
In reply to VPJB: Just read A Short Walk in the Hindu Kush.
In reply to murdster:
I'm not a big reader, never have been. More logical, mathematical minded. Also wish to climb El Cap some day so AKs book is inspiring in a way. Never had an interest in Everest or other Himalayan peaks but think people that managage them deserve praise.
Will look up "Feeding the Rat".
I'm not a big reader, never have been. More logical, mathematical minded. Also wish to climb El Cap some day so AKs book is inspiring in a way. Never had an interest in Everest or other Himalayan peaks but think people that managage them deserve praise.
Will look up "Feeding the Rat".
In reply to VPJB:
I don't want to spoil it, but he survived.
> Just reading Psychovertical which I think is fantastic and easy to read. Can people recommend any others to read that are of a similar nature? I've tried "Touching the Void" and although a great story, couldn't get to the end.
I don't want to spoil it, but he survived.
In reply to ice.solo: not a glowing review but the last sentence sold it to me
In reply to murdster:
....splutter.......
> (In reply to Darragh)
>
> Ha ha, don't forget everyone on here loves the Jerry Moffat book!!
>
> Ha ha, don't forget everyone on here loves the Jerry Moffat book!!
....splutter.......
Read quite a few of the books mentioned, my tuppence worth is that Psychovertical, though a little repetitive with the constantly getting into an almost inescapable situation then escaping (Very A-Team-y) was still a good read.
Just finished the Paul Pritchard "Deep Play" and wasn't really that keen on the writing style, thought it would have flowed better without all the out of body experience bits and the like but can see how some would enjoy it.
Agree with the above post that I don't understand how someone would be unable to finish a book as mindbendingly addictive and utterly inspiring as Touching the Void and will also second the suggestion of Into Thin Air, the account of the 1996 Everst disaster. Coudln't beleive what some of those people managed to live through and hope to god that I'll never have to make any similar decisions, brilliant book though and from what I've heard it gives a fair and accurate account, regardless of who was at fault, definitely pick it up if you get the chance.
Iain
In reply to VPJB: I loved Psychovertical and can't think of anything quite like it to recommend, but I did also enjoy Jim Perrin's The Villain, which is much more cerebral in style. I also recommend The Ascent of Rum Doodle, which is a spoof mountaineering book, very funny and was recently still in print.
I can't get enough of climbing lit at the moment so I'm going to check out some of the other suggestions here.
I have to say though, I hated Mountains of the Mind - unreadeable, overly cerebral, and nothing to do with climbing as I feel/understand it.
I can't get enough of climbing lit at the moment so I'm going to check out some of the other suggestions here.
I have to say though, I hated Mountains of the Mind - unreadeable, overly cerebral, and nothing to do with climbing as I feel/understand it.
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