UKC

what is in your first aid kit

putting 1 together so far got:
gloves
scissors
tweezers
thermometer
eye pad dressing
antiseptic wipes and cream
fabric dressing strip
blister plasters
crepe bandage
triangular bandage
safety pins
micro pore tape
paracetamol and ibroprofen

is there anything crucial or changes you would make for this kit

In reply to gordo:

Steri-strips, you've pretty much got the basics covered.

In reply to gordo: aspirin 300mg for heart attacks, id boot the paracetamol and ibroprofen
Pen and pad recording casualty vital signs
A big f*ck-off trauma dressing

In reply to gordo: also i would probably ditch the creams

In reply to gordo: You can do lots with good finger tape (Strapal is my favourite although other makes are available) and I sometimes have antihistamines... might bin the micro pore, safety pins, eye-pad and...
thermometer... is that essential? where and for how long are you going? Can you not just feel their forehead and say yep they have a temperature? Maybe I'm not up to date with my first-aid courses.

In reply to gordo:
A roll of insulating tape, a thermal blanket and a large black bin liner or plastic survival bag and some insect bite cream. I’d double up on the triangular bandages, bin the crepe bandages(too flimsy), chuck in a few more fabric bandage rolls and some large dressing pads. Loose the scissors – they’re bulky and most of the time you’ll have a knife to hand if you have to cut anything. The safety pins are a bit of a luxury and the thermometer is slightly unnecessary (if a casualty has heat stroke or is hypothermic it will be fairly obvious without taking their temperature). I carry the small spray can of aerosol Savlon as it’s easier to apply than the cream. Be wary of passing out the paracetamol or ibroprofen if you’re not a healthcare professional. Remember you’ll not be performing any major surgery on the hill and your priorities will be to maintain the casualty’s airway, stop serious bleeding, immobilise injured limbs and prevent the casualty’s condition deteriorating until professional medical help arrives on scene. It goes without saying that a decent first aid course and frequent refreshers are invaluable to anyone who ventures off the beaten track. Best of luck and hope you never have to use your kit in anger.

In reply to gordo:
I would ditch the paracetamol, and add Yunnan Paiyao from the Chinese pharmacy, and keep the large wound dressing from the previous post..

In reply to Paddy Duncan: what exactly is Yunnan Paiyao?

In reply to gordo:

mine changes all the time depending on what i'm doing/where i'm going so it depends on that

been walking on weekends and thought it was about time i got all my gear sorted out and cut down on the bits i dont need. want to get down too as little gear as poss really looking to do a few backpacking trips and wanna get everything sorted for next year idealy

didnt think about the knife

was going to get some low adherent dressings aswell

so replace the crepe with standard bandage's
there is 2 triangular allready

was looking for steri strips but couldnt see them but they are on my list to get

In reply to gordo: i really wouldnt bother with the thermometer, there is no point. If someone is ill, your priority as a first aider is not getting a temperature. any addition help you call will get things like that as baseline observations. You will be able to note if someone is too warm, or too cold. If they are too warm, cool them down, if they are too hot, warm them up, there is no point worrying about their actual temperature, because you wont be able to do anything extra when armed with that information. as a first aider, your job is to do your best until someone qualified arrives, and to preserve the life/health of the casualty. You dont need a thermometer for that.

Aspirin for cardiac arrest is not a bad call, although again, good knowledge of CPR will be of a lot more use to you in the long run. I would certainly consider having a couple of aspirin available though.

In reply to gordo: I would add a few cotton buds for getting grit out of eyes. Also I carry Arnica , Calendula and Ruta cream for bruises, cuts and sprains respectively. Total weight; less than 100g

In reply to gordo:

this might be helpful, although it takes a lot to trawl through the whole thread.

I never expected so many replies!

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=417575&v=1#x5940319

In reply to gordo: Having got a lot of grit and sand out of peoples eyes I'd recommend a few of those small pods of eye wash rather than poking around with cotton wool.

In reply to rich.mike:


Steri-strips? Surely these are useless unless you also plan on carrying a sterile cleaning kit to wash out the wound properly before closing it up?

Iain

In reply to IainMunro: Vet wrap is good stuff - better than crepe bandages. A good course to do is one of the Rescue and Emergency Care courses. http://www.recfirstaid.net/cms/index.php

In reply to IainMunro:

you can get small saline sachets.

In reply to gordo:

You may find this thread interesting and with some good suggestions.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=417575

In reply to gordo: How about some large squares of folded clingfilm tucked into small ziplock bags, good for burns and dressig large abrasions. Also consider a small mouth dam and glove kit. they cost 50p and only measure 2cm square.

In reply to Daniel Heath:

Opps, sorry just spotted your link.

It was indeed an excellent discussion.

My own take, is just to have stuff that I would need personally rather than taking stuff that is of no use to me or even kit that I would probably never use.

In reply to gordo: Also these may help as you may need to remove clothes to access wounds.

http://www.medisave.co.uk/tough-cut-scissors-non-strerile-disposable-p-7552...

In reply to muppetfilter:

They are great for the kitchen as well.

Vet Wrap (or other cohesive bandages - ebay/saddlery shops) are especially useful for ankles that need a bit of support. Not very expensive either.

Tick Hook or similar might be useful depending on where you're going.

In reply to gordo:

Is this your own personal kit, or are you in charge of a group?

It's a personal kit also would be for girlfriend and family if they was with me

In reply to gordo:

My personal kit is

Swiss army knife
blister plaster
crepe bandage
knee bandage (but only since I started having a dodgy knee)
2 safety pins
plaster strip
aspirin

I'd say most of the stuff you've listed is OTT unless perhaps you're going on a backpacking trip staying a significant distance from civilisation. Slings/dressings etc can be improvised from spare clothes. All you need to do is cope until you get back home.

In reply to Toreador: I have been unfortunate enough this year to be present and active in two accidents (one climbing and one bikeing).
My personal feelings now is that there really isnt enough that you can have with you, one fundamental that certainly saved one guy's life and saved him from paralysis was a well trained first aider with our group.

In reply to muppetfilter:

Exactly, knowledge is better than equipment. In a serious situation, if you know what you're doing you can improvise, if you don't then a rucksack full of 1st aid kit isn't going to help much.

In reply to gordo:

Some thoughts on your list based on experience:

Safety pins: too fiddly if it's cold - knots are better
Thermometer: Unlikely to be able to use effectively on the hill, and not as useful as knowing the more obvious signs of hypothermia/overheating.
Micropore: Doesn't stand up well to wetness or abrasion. Zinc Oxide is better.

A couple of outdoor instructors have advised that I get a big field dressing for large wounds. Not sure where to look for these though.

In reply to gordo: I tend to tailor my first aid kit to what I'm doing, where I'm going etc but I would suggest you keep the aspirin. If your casualty has a cardiac arrest you are pretty much doomed unless help can arrive quickly. However if they are experiencing chest pain of the angina/heart attack variety (much more likely)a bit of aspirin will almost certainly be of help.
Ditch either the paracetamol or the brufen. They both do a good job of helping reduce a temperature (thermal or infection/illness) so you don't need both.
If you're including triangular bandages its helpful if you know how to put one on.
Other bits and bobs could include: Gaffer tape, cable ties, tampon (makes a good dressing), a couple of anti-histamine tablets (good for stings) some folded up cling film.
Most of all I'd recommend attending a first aid course.

In reply to gordo:

Since you are most likely self medicating don't underestimate the misery of bites, stings and rashes so take antihistamine cream etc. Iibuprofen is the only analgesic that doesn't upset my stomach so don't ditch it if you are the same.
Given the huge and deep cut I got on my leg in a fall, and that I had to use my long socks tied around it to apply pressure and stop bleeding I would make sure you have something that you could use in that situation; even to the extent of using it with something else to improvise a splint.

In reply to adamtc:

got some anti-histamine tablets will throw them in.

how do you store tablets cause i dont want the whole box. just pop them all in a zip-lock bag with the instructions. they will still be sealed but will just cut off as many as i need

or is there a better way that people use

how would you store cling film does squares cut out work or better to just cut the end off the roll id of thought the squares would be a nightmare to work with

In reply to gordo: Most tablets come in blister packs. I usually just cut a couple of each off (helps if you cut out the ones where the name is on the foil packaging)and then as you say, keep them all together in a small freezer bag. If you round off the edges when you cut them you'll avoid getting them stuck up your finger nail when you ferret around in the bag!
With cling film I usually cut a couple of feet off the end of the roll then fold fold fold. Having suggested it however, if the sh*t hits the fan you can always use the cling film from your sarnies. Its useful for covering burns but you can also use it to hold dressings in place etc as it sticks to itself.
Re the rest of your list...eye patch can go as you can make one out of other things, you can use your drinking water to rinse stuff out of eyes.

You can buy a whole world of dressings from these lot:
http://www.medicalwarehouse.co.uk/collections/first-aid

In reply to gordo: ...oh...a couple of dioralite type re-hydration sachets can work wonders too...can live in the freezer bag with your tablets.

In reply to gordo:

Get some Military 'First Field Dressings' (FFD's) These are much more durable and can soak up a lot more blood than the civilian one's.

updated

gloves x1
scissors x1
tweezers x1
thermometer x1
eye pad dressing x1
antiseptic wipes x4
antiseptic cream x1
fabric dressing strip x1
blister plasters x5
crepe bandage x3
triangular bandage x2
safety pins (few)
micro pore tape x1
paracetamol and ibroprofen x8 of both
piriton (antihistamines) 1 strip
gauze plaster x4

gonna ditch (if i need space to fit something more important)

scissors
thermometer
antiseptic cream
safety pins

may swap
micropore tape for gafa tape


also had an accident at work which highlighted how a relatively normal situation can go wrong.
iv done an appointed 1st aid course but looking on doing my full first aid for a while

In reply to gordo:

Ditch the Crepe bandages and use 'pads' they have a tail on them, crepe bandages are useless for first aid.

You should be thinking about 'what you need to keep someone going to get them off the hill/crag' etc.

In reply to Page:


You're going to need a fair bit of saline and a proper cleaning kit though. The chances are unless you have a lot of kit to clean the wound and close it the steristrips will get taken off as soon as you get to a hospital so you may as well just stick an elastoplast or zinc oxide over the wound (steristrips are used to close a wound and encourage healing, they're not glorified plasters)

Iain

In reply to IainMunro:

Yess but are very useful for deep wounds for several reasons, 1 it stops the wound worsening, 2 it holds the wound closed where a plaster just covers it. Not every wound will need washing out that much and antibiotics can do this in hospital. These are extremely useful for facial wounds as the sooner the wound is closed the lesser the scar is left. Add them without any delay.

In reply to gordo:

Think about asprin, especially if you are in a popular location like the Lakes, heart attack central these days.

In reply to gordo: I have had a Life systems Mountain first aid kit for over 10 years now and Ive only used the painkillers for my hangover.

I ask the casualty if theyve got a first aid kit before using my own.

In reply to gordo:

You'll need to check the contents of the kit regularly, as the chances are none of it will ever be used, except maybe some plasters and an aspirin. Blister packs will open and the contents get damp and crumble; antiseptic wipes will evaporate; etc.

In time, you'll inevitably end up removing most of the things on your list, but it's usually better to start out taking too much and gradually remove things. I always used to carry a sleeping bag and stove when winter walking!

In reply to spartan:


Afraid I don't agree with you there, closing a deep wound which hasn't been properly cleaned can lead to a nasty deep seated infection or an osteomyelitis. If the wound is that deep you'll be needing assistance from MRT and evacuated anyway so you'll be in hospital pretty soon to get it done properly. Your second point is fair enough if you're needing to do it for haemorrhage control but decent zinc oxide (Strapal) tape will be more than enough to hold the edges of the wound shut.


I certainly won't be adding them to my kit, I'm alright with the stuff I carry thanks. I think being able to control a c-spine or perform CPR is far more useful than a set of steristrips. I've said in other threads that on the hill all you're looking to do is keep the patient alive and reasonably comfortable until further help arrives.

In a small ziplock bag I carry:
Foil blanket
Small penknife
Zinc oxide tape
Paracetamol
1 large cannula and a chloraprep
1 tubigrip

With this I could happily manage a minor injury and get the patient comfortable enough to walk off the hill or await further help. Anything more serious and it's a case of going through the ABCDEs, improvising where appropriate and keeping the patient alive until help arrives.

I can't understand the logic of those who carry steristrips and suture kits in their rucksack all the time unless you are more than a couple of days away from civilisation/help. However, it's very much a personal choice and everyone should carry what they want to/feel comfortable using.

That's my 2p

Iain

In reply to gordo: Use a small clear plastic food container where the lid clips on securely, completely waterproof and doesnt break if you sit / stand on it. Put a card with DRsABC Primary Survey guidance inside so you can read it through lid. Put another card with contents list upside down at bottom of box so you can quickly check to see whats in it.

You can get all thats needed for normal use in 0.4 litre box.

A full kit including SAM splint fits in a 2 litre box.

In reply to IainMunro:

I would caution of calling out MRT's for wounds when you can 'walk out'. Agreed though if it is very deep then its going to be a problem. They are good for helping wounds heal much quicker if you are out for a few days and can be confident its cleaned. I carry them and have used them, it certainly cuts down healing time. I have Zinc Oxide tape and cut plasters down to achieve the same affect granted.

Early cannulation is good if you know how to, helps massively. The trend seems to have moved away from pushing fluids in, as it blew out clots. Sensible it seems.

Spinal injuries are a big one but carrying a collar is not practical, so knowledge is what counts there. CPR well unless you get a helicopter out to you, on top of the hill its gonna be exhausting.


Couldn't agree more, improvisation is the key, and its something the outdoor/climbing/mountaineering community seem to do quite well.

In reply to spartan: yes improvisation. Such as a twisted fleece as a perfectly adequate kneck brace.

In reply to spartan:


Fluid resuscitation is still pushed even in big bleeds, there are only a few specific situations (great vessel damage for example) where aggressive fluid resus is contraindicated. Occasionally permissive hypotension is advocated in case you "pop the clot" as they say in the US but there's also the fear that you can dilute the clotting factors too and prevent clot formation (only happen to know this having done a presentation on the subject fairly recently!) I guess in a mountainous setting injuries like that are almost uniformly fatal anyway though so not worth getting hung up about it. Big cannulas can also be used to relieve a tension pneumothorax which is another reason I carry one.


Yeah, we seem to be fairly imaginative people, I guess due to the nature of what we do problem solving skills are quite important to have!

Iain

In reply to gordo: A 2/4 person group shelter a lightweight first aid manual and a card saying don`t say the D word

In reply to IainMunro:

Surely you don't carry fluids as well Iain?

In reply to DNS:


No definitely not!! If you read back through the posts I was questioning people who take saline to clean out wounds as I felt that was a bit excessive! I was just responding to spartan's comment re. fluid resuscitation but that is well out with the realms of basic first aid which is what poor gordo was asking about in the first case!

These first aid threads always seem to generate a lot of interesting discussion

Iain

In reply to sjc:

don`t say the D word


Doncaster ???

In reply to IainMunro:

Yep I agree, been a little time since I last re-quallified so forgot a great deal but I agree with you. Be interested to know what else you know on the subject.


DNS - Iain is right getting a 'line' in early helps later on down the treatment process so even if it looks pointless on the hill it helps later when it comes to pumping fluids in. I know this from personal experience when I had an open fracture, lost a lot of blood and the paramedics had trouble getting fluids and drugs in to me.

Sorry Gord, seems we have digressed from basic first aid to a little more complicated things.

In reply to spartan:
Getting a line in early is great if you are successful. If you fail you have just knackered a vein for someone potentially more experienced. Please don't try unless you have a decent chance of success. it is also becoming less important with the increasing us of devices like EZ-IO.

The discussions around permissive hypotension is way to complex for a thread about first aid and really not relevant.

As always happens on these threads the discussion gets rapidly out of hand and far too complex. There does however seem to be a need for something more than a first aid course.

How much demand would there be for a course teaching more advanced initial management of trauma and illness in the field? If there was a decent amount of interest I could look at setting up such a course.

In reply to gordo:


When you get gloves buy several pairs, as they get used then when you try and buy more it costs 20p for the gloves and £10 for delivery.

Also put plasters in as cuts and scrapes are more common than broken bones.

A few chlorine water purifying tablets are a good idea

In reply to vark:

I agree, and the thread did digress slightly, possibly my fault.

There are Mountain First Aid courses out there which have good reviews. I think there would be a good demand depending on price/location/content and time.

In reply to vark:


The venflon I carry would only be used in extremis if faced with someone developing a tension pneumothorax and knowing that help is too far away. Although I'm quite happy getting access, even in pretty shut down people, I wouldn't dream of trying to do this in the hills as someone unwell enough to need cannulated is also going to be at risk of developing hypothermia if their jacket is removed to try and get access.


There are already courses run by WMT and Glenmore Lodge etc but I think a well written article for UKC would be valuable to refer to when these questions are asked. I try not to get involved in these discussions but have seen some pretty dodgy advice being offered in previous threads; aspirin for "on the hill" treatment of stroke and recommendations that suture sets should be in your basic hill first aid kits are a couple that spring to mind. An article covering basic principles of first aid, BLS and a little bit about trauma management/pre-hospital care could be useful.

Iain

In reply to gordo:
everything you can do with a triangular bandage you can do with spare clothing. which also has the fabulous quality of being spare clothing.

another option which I often use for paddling is an extra big triangular bandage made of blue tarpaulin material. a standard TB wont go over a good few layers of clothing. the tarp triangle will, and is also waterproof/windproof, keeping you extra warm.

I have one of the tiny swiss army knives, which has tweezers, and scissors. (if the tiny scissors wont go through it, the knife will)

duct tape is also alot better outdoors than any medical tape.


for cleaning wounds, irrigating with water is very effective. use the water you carry for drinking.

with your dressings, go big. field dressings are the way to go. they can always be torn/cut smaller if you need to get them into an awkward place (i.e. over an eye) but its pretty difficult to make a small dressing bigger.

I'm sure its already been mentioned, but compeed are the only blister plasters worth having. scholl/boots etc. will just fall apart, or go gooey when wet.

for small cuts and scrapes, climbing tape is often as good as a plater. sur, itll hurt to take off, but it means carrying one less thing.

In reply to gordo:



The most important thing to think about with first aid kits, like any kit we carry on the hill is, is it suitable for purpose and do we know how to use it properly?

The other consideration for a first aid kit is what is its purpose?

The personal first aid kit I carry for a winter day with mates is VERY different from the kit I carry if I’m leading a group on a week long exped.

I'm sure we all are the same in that we have rooms full of kit that we would take on a particular day away as it "suits the purpose" better. First aid kits should be no different.

There have been some good points raised on this thread by apparently knowledgeable people.

Trauma dressings in Mountain playgrounds are a must for me, the new Military ones are vacuum packed and take up very little space but are a godsend with a bleeding head wound. Buy two though and open one and practice with it. They are NOT just simple bandages with some having pressure cups or bars.

I wouldn’t dream of carrying a cannula on the hill for general first aid, certainly it’s a complete no-go unless you have been professionally trained and continue to train and practice regularly with putting a line in. Similarly the thought of people wandering around the hill with suture kits makes me shudder!
The risks associated with closing wounds, nerve and vein damage as well as infection is high. Leave suturing to the professionals in a suitable environment. Steri strips can actually work quite well in an outdoors setting to temporarily close a wound when coupled with a big sticking plaster over the top!

As a first aid provider on the hill you are attempting to Preserve life, Prevent worsening of the condition and Promote recovery. That’s not always easy. Carrying Aspirin for a heart attack is a great idea, knowing how to perform CPR in the event of Cardiac Arrest is even better but, you can forget trying to perform CPR on a two hour carry out evacuation from the hillside.

I run first aid training for the outdoors based on using what you carry with you NOT what the first aid manuals suggest. I am fortunate enough to have had over 20 years of experience in providing emergency front line response as well as Mountain Rescue and Hostile environment work and the one thing I’ve learned over all these years is keeping it simple works best!

Know the basics, practice, practice, practice and then just hope it never happens!!!!

In reply to gordo:

Yep - keep it simple - get advanced at the basics rather than basic at the advanced. Two key items in any outdoor first aid kit - half a roll mat and a bit of plastic. A broken leg is unlikely to kill a casualty but waiting around for an MRT to turn up the casualty could die from exposure if they're not insulated and protected from the ground and weather.

A couple of suggested kits can be found at the bottom of this page: http://www.will4adventure.com/hns.shtml and do carry a casualty monitoring form - http://www.will4adventure.com/PDFs/OFA_Cas_Mon_Sheet.pdf - that should be printed on wp paper and have a pencil too!

Best of luck.

Will

Doing CPR in a remote environment with no kit and without the prospect of immediate rescue as pretty pointless. CPR in an urban environment with rapid availability of advanced life support is only slightly less futile.

In reply to vark:

Sometimes it a rural setting it's more about comfort to the friends of the deceased that everything that could be done has been seen to be done at the locus.

As for the "futility" of CPR in an urban setting you couldn't be further from the truth. Properly performed CPR whilst waiting for a de fib to arrive can and does save lives.

In reply to Venture Medical:


I perform CPR as a matter of course in my day-to-day job and I have to agree with vark, because in the last year, I have only seen one casualty survive the trip to hospital after performing CPR.

Sadly they died within the hour at hospital.

In reply to Venture Medical:


I must have imagined all of the people i have seen die in spite of CPR! It probably averages about one per working day. The number of people I have seen survive to hospital discharge is probably about one per year on average.

CPR is useful in a very limited set of circumstances. Cardiac arrest from blunt trauma in a remote environment = death.

In reply to vark:

Likewise I have seen people die despite CPR and having a de fib present within 4 minutes.

Because we have a very limited success rate does that make it futile or do we have a go for the fact that some people do survive?

I have also had to perform CPR on a mountainside following an obviously fatal fall through massive trauma but I wouldn't be turning round to his climbing companion and saying sorry mate, there's nothing I can do here.

Cardiac arrest in a remote environment through any cause equals death.

Given you agree that cardiac arrest is unsurvivable in a remote environment why teach CPR?

To start a treatment that you know will have no benefit is unethical.

If NICE ever have the balls to undertake an economic evaluation of out of hospital CPR I suspect they would ban its use. The amount of cost involved in providing this service is enormous for very little benefit

In reply to vark:

As a transferable skill it does have benefit. If it only saves one life then that life is enough for me.

Frankly if you are a professional health care provider (and I'm yet to encounter someone who's day to day job is to provide CPR or who carries out CPR on an almost daily basis) then your attitude disappoints me beyond belief. It's also not indicative of my colleagues opinions.

I reckon, and appreciate I may be wrong, however, your line about starting a treatment on the hillside that will have no benefit is unethical smacks of someone who has NEVER been in that position. I have, sadly several times, having happened upon accidents that have just occurred or I have personally witnessed.

For those left behind that witnessed the events unfold then the knowledge that everything that could be done has been done can and goes some way to easing the metal shit that follows.

We'll agree to differ on this one I think!

In reply to Venture Medical:


You have now, with both Vark and myself.

In reply to The Lemming:

You carry out CPR on a daily basis? I'll be reading about you in Response then. Quite a record.

Congratulations

In reply to Venture Medical:
UKC first aid threads tend to follow a predictable pattern. They start reasonably sensibly then quickly escalate into discussions about more and more ridiculous kit to carry, followed by advice that we should all be carrying aspirin in case we come across someone with an MI and then end on discussions about CPR.
THe CPR discussions usually perpetuate the myth that CPR is likely to be lifesaving.

I am indeed fortunate enough not to have had to perform CPR on the hill. I have on a number of occasions been the person deciding to stop CPR when someone arrives at hospital. In these circumstances relatives are likely to think the CPR will have had some effect and the discussions about terminating CPR are often difficult but relatives are usually very understanding and appreciative of the honesty regarding the prognosis.

Making a decision not to start CPR is not something to be expected of a lay person as this is not covered in basic life support. I assumed from your username that you are not a lay person and hence am surprised at your faith in CPR.

First aid courses should be focused on stopping people getting to the point of needing CPR and on giving them the best chance of making a full recovery.

In reply to Venture Medical:

I would of thought that any paramedic in an FRV role in any decent sized urban environment will be involved in cardiac arrests very frequently. Why do you seem surprised by this?

In reply to vark:

>First aid courses should be focused on stopping people getting to the point of needing CPR and on giving them the best chance of making a full recovery.

You mean like the use of aspirin?

I too have had to make the decision to stop CPR albeit not in the luxury of a clinical setting resus area where my experience shows that very few relatives are actually present when the decision is made.

I also deal with the tough decision making of calling an end to it and with the aftermath of such decisions so I know the extremes of reaction possible from relatives, particularly in non clinical trauma.

I also know people who's lives have been saved through prompt, effective CPR and subsequent use of De Fibs.

Like I said, we'll agree to differ on this one

In reply to vark:

>I would of thought that any paramedic in an FRV role in any decent sized urban environment will be involved in cardiac arrests very frequently. Why do you seem surprised by this?

Really??? Even in the East End of Glasgow where the life expectancy through lifestyle is well below the National average this is no where near true!!!

And I'm yet to meet anyone who performs CPR on a daily basis even in a hospital setting!

I'll take your word on that point....

In reply to vark:

Sorry to say but I'm not a Paramedic, I'm an EMT1 and I don't want to cause confusion about my grade. I'm at the bottom of the chain, who hands over to people like your good self.

As to Venture Medical, I shall not be replying to this discussion any more.

In reply to The Lemming:

Guys

I have no intention of falling out. This was a grown up conversation that pretty much stayed that way, similar to the type I'd have over a few beers.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Debate is what keeps forums interesting

In reply to Jack Whiteley:

to quote or at least paraphrase "a poorly controled preperation of an unknown substance with unknown effects given in an unknown dose" personally I would keep the paracetamol instead and/or carry ibuprofen. You know what it is, what it does and what the dose is.

In reply to davidwright

haha well said

In reply to gordo:

All the little bits and pieces in the world wont help when the blood is really flowing. Get hold of a military first field dressing or something with equivalent galactic class absorbing power. Dont rule out sanitary towels: high tech, low cost, low weight.

Ditch the paracetamol and take aspirin: similar headache curative effects but also half-tab chewed for suspected heart attack.