UKC

Can't wait till Autumn for Nomic's for various reasons.

So, Fusion's or Viper's?

Primarily for scottish mixed and ice along with some dry tooling and possibly also for euro ice trips and alpine stuff.

In reply to conorcussell: i own the fusions (new ones) and have climbed on the vipers, Although the fusions are f*cking brilliant for mixed, i find them to feel very insecure and hardwork on ice, as they dont give good first time sticks and are difficult to clean, probably due to the steep pick angle, the vipers are great on ice, but wont perform as well on mixed, but to be honest unless your are climbing very high end, over hanging mixed they wont slow you down

In reply to Ginger McGrath: Interesting to hear that about the Fusion's on ice. I'm most certainly not climbing super hard mixed. As much as i would like to. Sounds like the viper's may be what i need. Cheers for the info.

In reply to conorcussell:

Have you thought about Reactors? I really rate them. lots of room to use with big gloves.

In reply to Climbpsyched: Had thought about them. But thought the lack of clearance in comparison to Fusions and Vipers might be an issue on mixed and featured ice.

What do you use them on mainly?

In reply to conorcussell: I haven't found the clearance to be an issue. I have had a play with the two other tools you mention and still prefer my Reactors.

I have used mine for the last 2 seasons on Scottish mixed, Ice and dry tooling.

In reply to Climbpsyched: They are the cheapest of the bunch as well. Need to get my hands on a pair to see what they feel like. Cheers for the info!

In reply to conorcussell:
Another vote for reactors, i find them great on both mixed and ice, never had any trouble with clearance, up to grade 5 that is. The handle is great, its simple but all you could want and will take the largest of gloves.

In reply to conorcussell:

Vipers/Cobras/Quarks are designed for climbing mainly water ice/neve but will work fine for a bit of mixed

Reactors are a general purpose tool but most people choose either mixed or ice tools

Nomics/Fusion 2's are best for climbing more mixed (rock) than ice but still work well for steep and featured ice (that often has mixed sections anyway)

Ergos/Fusion 1's if climbing mainly rock or competitions

but any tool will work for anything if you are really motivated/skint

In reply to conorcussell:

And another vote for Reactors - proper leashless tools for real world climbing, with both a spike and a clipping hole Add a full size adze and hammer for an outstanding Scottish tool.

I've not noticed clearance as a problem at all - not even thought about it frankly.

In reply to conorcussell: I've got Vipers and Reactors and have used them both loads for ice climbing. No real difference in clearance.

In reply to conorcussell:

Realize that a major reason why the Fusion doesn't do as well on ice [as compared to the Viper] is that it comes with the Fusion drytooling pick and not the svelte Laser ice pick which comes with the Vipers. The difference is significant. Put a pair of Lasers on the Fusion tools and they'll perform considerably better on pure ice.

I have both a pair of Vipers and a pair of older Fusions (have climbed on new ones as well). I feel the true ergo style tools make climbing at a given grade substantially easier. I use my Fusions for all style of climbing, including mixed, pure ice, drytooling and alpine. The thought is that the z-shaft tools aren't good for alpine as they are harder to plunge. While they are harder to plunge, for the most part the routes I do aren't dependent on plunge-ability. Plus, if the snow is soft enough I can still plunge, if not, I just dagger. There has been a reluctance for people to get ergo tools because of their concerns for alpine, but remember this was the same mentality when we moved from straight shafts to bent shafts and eventually curved shafts on ice tools.

Fusions with Laser picks are phenomenal. The picks will hold up to most all mixed climbing (I'm 90kg when mixed climbing, without a pack) and I've torqued the hell out of that Laser pick on numerous occasions and never had it break or bend. Anyway, just thought I'd add that.

In reply to conorcussell:

Another vote for the Reator or better yet the new Quarks.

"Nomics/Fusion 2's are best for climbing more mixed (rock) than ice but still work well for steep and featured ice (that often has mixed sections anyway)"

Not what I have found. The Nomic is good any where the new Fusion isn't all that much fun on pure ice. The Nomic is.

"Ergos/Fusion 1's if climbing mainly rock or competitions"

I found the new Ergo is another brilliant all around tool (like the Nomic) and at any grade. The Fusion 1/2 isn't.

In reply to conorcussell:
There are other options beyond BD/Petzl that might be worth considering.
X-monsters, Katana Pro are both cheaper. Both are rated very highly by the folks I know using them.
Quantum Race is meant to be amazing but tough to get in UK.

Bruce

In reply to Dane1:

new ergos as an all round tool!

"but any tool will work for anything if you are really motivated/skint"

In reply to highcamp:
Alternatively, put a pair of Fusion picks on Reactors and you have a cracking Scottish tool, and with a proper hammer/adze they do me fine for Scottsih 5/6.

Keep your nice pointy Laser picks for water ice - that does me fine for WI4/5


If you want to go swinging arund in caves - I've no idea what's any good quite frankly. There's bound to be something better to do than that!

In reply to conorcussell:
Another vote for the Reactors for me if you want a tool predominantly for Scottish winter climbing, but that can also cope withe some pure ice, mixed and alpine stuff.

I wrote a full review of them here a few months ago - http://matthewjforshaw.blogspot.com/2011/01/black-diamond-reactor-review.ht...