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Have been leading for a while now and would like to do my first VS lead on my next trip to the Lakes, just wondering if anyone had any recommendations for a good first VS, perhaps around Coniston/Duddon or on Sheperd's Crag?
Thanks
Thanks
In reply to Ross.Cooper:
Fishers Folly is good at Shepherd's Crag. 2 pitches, neither of them too hard at the grade and good gear when you want it.
Fishers Folly is good at Shepherd's Crag. 2 pitches, neither of them too hard at the grade and good gear when you want it.
In reply to Ross.Cooper:
White Ghyll might be a good option. Start with Slipknot and see how you go. There's 3 more waiting for you if you're feeling good...
Or maybe Malediction Direct on Wallowbarrow but I can't really remember what it was like, to be honest!
White Ghyll might be a good option. Start with Slipknot and see how you go. There's 3 more waiting for you if you're feeling good...
Or maybe Malediction Direct on Wallowbarrow but I can't really remember what it was like, to be honest!
In reply to Ross.Cooper:
Brown Crag Wall at Shepherds is a nice varied 3-pitcher, the crux is at the start. Well protected, it might fit the bill.
Brown Crag Wall at Shepherds is a nice varied 3-pitcher, the crux is at the start. Well protected, it might fit the bill.
In reply to Ross.Cooper: get straight on Eliminate A at Dow Crag. Classic.
Well, maybe try some 1-pitch VS's first.
Thanks for listening.
Well, maybe try some 1-pitch VS's first.
Thanks for listening.
In reply to Ross.Cooper:
The south crag at Castle Rock has the best rock in the world; a very grippy rhyolite. So grippy you can climb it in the pissing rain (important in the Lakes apparently!).
Direct Route and Kleine Rinne are well protected, long (about the limit of single pitch I reckon) and solid at VS. Short walk in too.
Probably best not to stray round to the North wall. Apparenly a bungalow sized rock is waiting to peel off.
The south crag at Castle Rock has the best rock in the world; a very grippy rhyolite. So grippy you can climb it in the pissing rain (important in the Lakes apparently!).
Direct Route and Kleine Rinne are well protected, long (about the limit of single pitch I reckon) and solid at VS. Short walk in too.
Probably best not to stray round to the North wall. Apparenly a bungalow sized rock is waiting to peel off.
In reply to Ross.Cooper: MVS but Ardus at Shepherds is just brilliant.
In reply to Ross.Cooper:
Normal mix of good and bad advice on here.
Ardus is a v good route and quite well protected but MVS, not full VS. Still, if you need some intermediate routes you could try one or two MVS's first. Digitation is MVS at Wallowbarrow and excellent and well protected I think (I did it in the rain not so long ago).
The south crag of Castle Rock is indeed excellent rock and a great collection of climbs, with some really good ones around VS. However, they tend to have steep starts with nor great pro - so you need to be happy pushing on quickly. Kleinne Rinne is really quite steep and poorly protected for the first 4-5m. Lovely route mind. Direct not a lot better iirc.
One cited in the guidebook as a 1st good VS lead is the very polished Brown Slabs Crack at Shepherds. Single pitch and very well protected. Look on the wall above the corner crack for some holds iirc. More like VS 5a than 4c but v good fun and safe.
Normal mix of good and bad advice on here.
Ardus is a v good route and quite well protected but MVS, not full VS. Still, if you need some intermediate routes you could try one or two MVS's first. Digitation is MVS at Wallowbarrow and excellent and well protected I think (I did it in the rain not so long ago).
The south crag of Castle Rock is indeed excellent rock and a great collection of climbs, with some really good ones around VS. However, they tend to have steep starts with nor great pro - so you need to be happy pushing on quickly. Kleinne Rinne is really quite steep and poorly protected for the first 4-5m. Lovely route mind. Direct not a lot better iirc.
One cited in the guidebook as a 1st good VS lead is the very polished Brown Slabs Crack at Shepherds. Single pitch and very well protected. Look on the wall above the corner crack for some holds iirc. More like VS 5a than 4c but v good fun and safe.
In reply to Ross.Cooper:
Wait for the weather (might have to wait until spring now) and go to the East Buttress; Great Eastern, Fulcrum, Mickledore Grooves. All of these are excellent, well protected, atmospheric climbs. Dry more often than you might think.
Wait for the weather (might have to wait until spring now) and go to the East Buttress; Great Eastern, Fulcrum, Mickledore Grooves. All of these are excellent, well protected, atmospheric climbs. Dry more often than you might think.
In reply to Ross.Cooper:
I'm struggling to think of a good first VS in the Lakes that isnt an MVS; it's almost a seperate grade in that part of the world. But a good way to stage your progression.
I'm struggling to think of a good first VS in the Lakes that isnt an MVS; it's almost a seperate grade in that part of the world. But a good way to stage your progression.
In reply to JonC:
I agree with your comments about south crag of Castle Rock. I don't think that's a good place for a first VS, for the reasons you give.
Shepherd's not so good. Ardus is good but a bit too mild to be a proper VS. (I think for years it was HS)
I agree with your comments about south crag of Castle Rock. I don't think that's a good place for a first VS, for the reasons you give.
Shepherd's not so good. Ardus is good but a bit too mild to be a proper VS. (I think for years it was HS)
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
I think White Ghyll is about the best bet. As someone else has said, warm up on Slip Knot and then go for either White Ghyll Wall or Gordian Knot. The latter is particularly good, with a proper VS crux which has bomber protection IIRC.
I think White Ghyll is about the best bet. As someone else has said, warm up on Slip Knot and then go for either White Ghyll Wall or Gordian Knot. The latter is particularly good, with a proper VS crux which has bomber protection IIRC.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
The OP asked re Shepherds and I thought that Brown Crack was maybe the best/safest to start on. I know Ardus was given HS for a long while but I do tend to think of it as just a soft VS; not a bad starting point. Oddly, whilst people get concerned about the traverse at the top, I think it's the crack in the middle pitch which is really the meat of the route and gets you used to steeper/harder things.
As jamie said, I'm struggling to think of very obvious good 1st VS leads in the Lakes. Someone above mentioned Slipknot at WHite Ghyll and perhaps that's not a bad call. Feels serious, requires commitment, but actually pretty steady (if not easy at the grade) and well protected. Might be quite a memorable 1st VS too, hopefully for the right reasons.
The OP asked re Shepherds and I thought that Brown Crack was maybe the best/safest to start on. I know Ardus was given HS for a long while but I do tend to think of it as just a soft VS; not a bad starting point. Oddly, whilst people get concerned about the traverse at the top, I think it's the crack in the middle pitch which is really the meat of the route and gets you used to steeper/harder things.
As jamie said, I'm struggling to think of very obvious good 1st VS leads in the Lakes. Someone above mentioned Slipknot at WHite Ghyll and perhaps that's not a bad call. Feels serious, requires commitment, but actually pretty steady (if not easy at the grade) and well protected. Might be quite a memorable 1st VS too, hopefully for the right reasons.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
You beat me to it!
I would agree that White Ghyll Wall would be a good 2nd VS there. I've done it a couple of times and really enjoyed it.
Personally I found GK a bit un-nerving but then it was wet. The only real problem with White Ghyll is that there isn't much easier stuff to warm up on, if that's what the OP wants, and the slabby severes at the top end of the ravine are strange routes (imho) and might put him off completely! I think the answer is to jump on Slip Knot and warm up on the nice long P1 which is about Severe/HS at worst.
You beat me to it!
I would agree that White Ghyll Wall would be a good 2nd VS there. I've done it a couple of times and really enjoyed it.
Personally I found GK a bit un-nerving but then it was wet. The only real problem with White Ghyll is that there isn't much easier stuff to warm up on, if that's what the OP wants, and the slabby severes at the top end of the ravine are strange routes (imho) and might put him off completely! I think the answer is to jump on Slip Knot and warm up on the nice long P1 which is about Severe/HS at worst.
In reply to JonC:
Slop Knot is a funny one; really not sure if it's MVS or VS. Very cruxy, with a confidence move on the 4b/c borderline that's definitely easier for the tall and a bit of a fiddle to protect well. But the rest is a romp.
Remember WGW being benchmark VS 4c with good gear on the 4c pitch.
Slop Knot is a funny one; really not sure if it's MVS or VS. Very cruxy, with a confidence move on the 4b/c borderline that's definitely easier for the tall and a bit of a fiddle to protect well. But the rest is a romp.
Remember WGW being benchmark VS 4c with good gear on the 4c pitch.
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
Agreed re WGW - the only issue being that the line isn't the strongest and I can imagine people wondering if they're headed in the right direction.
Also agree re SK other than I thought the gear was pretty good all the way up it, but I do recall having to extend a piece before the crux with a sling. In other words, I think it's fine provided you don't want a few nuts on short QD's just before the (easy) crux! Commitment is what's required
Agreed re WGW - the only issue being that the line isn't the strongest and I can imagine people wondering if they're headed in the right direction.
Also agree re SK other than I thought the gear was pretty good all the way up it, but I do recall having to extend a piece before the crux with a sling. In other words, I think it's fine provided you don't want a few nuts on short QD's just before the (easy) crux! Commitment is what's required
In reply to Ross.Cooper: What a can of worms! It only takes someone to recommend something for someone else to rubbish it!
I may have you wrong, but I'd imagine for a first VS lead you would want the following:
1. single pitch
2. easy route finding (not White Ghyll Wall!)
3. fairly straight up line - no long traverse followed by a poorly protected crux (Gordian Knot).
My suggestion is Enterprize on Raven Crag Walthwaite
I may have you wrong, but I'd imagine for a first VS lead you would want the following:
1. single pitch
2. easy route finding (not White Ghyll Wall!)
3. fairly straight up line - no long traverse followed by a poorly protected crux (Gordian Knot).
My suggestion is Enterprize on Raven Crag Walthwaite
In reply to Rog Wilko:
That's a bit necky for a first VS. Unless you wimp out round the arete onto the easy slab, that is. Also not all that great compared to the other suggestions.
Going back to White Ghyll - that would be where I did some of my first lakes VS's. We rocked up and someone was on Slipknot, so we did Haste Not. And I still rate it as the best VS in the lakes - so I must've enjoyed it.
So I can't really see any major issues with that, Slipknot, WGW, or Gordian Not (the most go-ey of the lot as far as I remember).
As long as this guy's done his time - and he said he's been leading a while, he'll be able to cope with whatever these routes throw at him. They're not walkovers, but do-able, challenging, memorable, and quality rock climbs.
Get on it!
That's a bit necky for a first VS. Unless you wimp out round the arete onto the easy slab, that is. Also not all that great compared to the other suggestions.
Going back to White Ghyll - that would be where I did some of my first lakes VS's. We rocked up and someone was on Slipknot, so we did Haste Not. And I still rate it as the best VS in the lakes - so I must've enjoyed it.
So I can't really see any major issues with that, Slipknot, WGW, or Gordian Not (the most go-ey of the lot as far as I remember).
As long as this guy's done his time - and he said he's been leading a while, he'll be able to cope with whatever these routes throw at him. They're not walkovers, but do-able, challenging, memorable, and quality rock climbs.
Get on it!
In reply to JonC:
I can confirm that Slip Knot is indeed a memorable first VS in the Lakes! I remember finding the bulge quite exciting. It's probably not a bad choice though, as long as you've got your head together.
I actually thought Kleine Rinne was okay too, especially if you're used to pulling on steep plastic (and maybe the odd bit of highball bouldering). It felt a bit run out but I found gear where I needed it.
What about Murray's Direct on Dow? The traverse at the start seems to have a bit of a reputation but I thought it was fine. If you get half way up and don't fancy the second layback pitch it's easy to escape onto Murray's Original too.
> Might be quite a memorable 1st VS too, hopefully for the right reasons.
I can confirm that Slip Knot is indeed a memorable first VS in the Lakes! I remember finding the bulge quite exciting. It's probably not a bad choice though, as long as you've got your head together.
I actually thought Kleine Rinne was okay too, especially if you're used to pulling on steep plastic (and maybe the odd bit of highball bouldering). It felt a bit run out but I found gear where I needed it.
What about Murray's Direct on Dow? The traverse at the start seems to have a bit of a reputation but I thought it was fine. If you get half way up and don't fancy the second layback pitch it's easy to escape onto Murray's Original too.
In reply to JonC:
If you are looking at Langdale, maybe something like Mendes might fit the bill ? pretty shelteresd at this time of year.
If you are looking at Langdale, maybe something like Mendes might fit the bill ? pretty shelteresd at this time of year.
In reply to Rog Wilko:
I agree Gorian Knot is not a good 1st VS, as I tried to suggest.
Enterprize is a rather bold HS really, so depends what you like to climb. If the OP likes bold rather than hard, he might go well go for that.
I agree Gorian Knot is not a good 1st VS, as I tried to suggest.
Enterprize is a rather bold HS really, so depends what you like to climb. If the OP likes bold rather than hard, he might go well go for that.
In reply to GrahamD:
I thought that Mendes had seen a number of accidents, being quite steep and a bit thin on gear in the hard section? Doesn't sound ideal to me...
I thought that Mendes had seen a number of accidents, being quite steep and a bit thin on gear in the hard section? Doesn't sound ideal to me...
In reply to Ross.Cooper: I seem to remember Spinup on Lower Falcon, Borrowdale being atmospheric. Or there's F route on Gimmer for a ballsy VS; it's all there though. Agree with the above that Haste Knot has to be the best VS though.
In reply to JonC:
Again, on the margins...but NW Arete on Gimmer, plus another VS further round (Carpetbagger) might do the trick.
Spinup & Hedera Groove in Borrowdale too
Again, on the margins...but NW Arete on Gimmer, plus another VS further round (Carpetbagger) might do the trick.
Spinup & Hedera Groove in Borrowdale too
In reply to mark catcher:
The great Haste Not is of course best left until one has quite a few VSs under one's belt. That traverse pitch is a lonely lead (and second)
The great Haste Not is of course best left until one has quite a few VSs under one's belt. That traverse pitch is a lonely lead (and second)
In reply to Greenbanks:
N/W Arete is a very good suggestion. Very steady, reasonably well protected. If that goes well, then the obvious finish is up F Route which is well up in the grade but has perfect pro (surely? unless my memory has let me down as it appears to have done on Gordian Knot, despite having done it twice)
N/W Arete is a very good suggestion. Very steady, reasonably well protected. If that goes well, then the obvious finish is up F Route which is well up in the grade but has perfect pro (surely? unless my memory has let me down as it appears to have done on Gordian Knot, despite having done it twice)
In reply to mark catcher:
Very good pitch with good gear, but high in the grade, surely?
> Or there's F route on Gimmer for a ballsy VS; it's all there though.
Very good pitch with good gear, but high in the grade, surely?
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
What a palaver. Maybe his best bet is to bypass VS, and go do Lakeland Cragsman at Sergeant Crag Slabs. He'll remember that, for sure.
What a palaver. Maybe his best bet is to bypass VS, and go do Lakeland Cragsman at Sergeant Crag Slabs. He'll remember that, for sure.
In reply to Calder:
Some of us (me included) have always been reticent about pushing our grade. In any case, why miss out on any of the Lakeland gems to leap a grade?
Some of us (me included) have always been reticent about pushing our grade. In any case, why miss out on any of the Lakeland gems to leap a grade?
In reply to Rog Wilko:
I was about to suggest Sobrenada (Eagle Crag Grisedale) as it was one of my early VS leads. But looking at the logbooks most people seem to think it's hard for the grade. I suspect it's easier if you're used to gritstone chimneys!
I was about to suggest Sobrenada (Eagle Crag Grisedale) as it was one of my early VS leads. But looking at the logbooks most people seem to think it's hard for the grade. I suspect it's easier if you're used to gritstone chimneys!
In reply to Greenbanks:
I wasn't being serious, just reacting to the...
"what about this?"
"Ooh, don't know about that, it's a bit [whatever]..."
Although, having said that, Lakeland Cragsman possibly isn't the worst suggestion on here.
Bottom line is, this guy's gonna have to venture into the unknown a little bit. He sounds like he wants to - so maybe we have to put away all this cotton wool and encourage him.
Get on it, fella.
I wasn't being serious, just reacting to the...
"what about this?"
"Ooh, don't know about that, it's a bit [whatever]..."
Although, having said that, Lakeland Cragsman possibly isn't the worst suggestion on here.
Bottom line is, this guy's gonna have to venture into the unknown a little bit. He sounds like he wants to - so maybe we have to put away all this cotton wool and encourage him.
Get on it, fella.
In reply to Greenbanks:
Oh, and Lakeland Cragsman is a lakeland gem as well, you know. Whereas Kleine Rinne, Brown Slabs Crack, and Enterprize are really really not.
Oh, and Lakeland Cragsman is a lakeland gem as well, you know. Whereas Kleine Rinne, Brown Slabs Crack, and Enterprize are really really not.
Can none of you lot read? The OP is asking for recommendations for a first VS lead in the Lakes.
Most of the answers to this thread are for the following questions:
Name VSs in the Lakes you have done?
What is the best VS in the Lakes?
Also it is winter right now, presumably Ross wants to crack on with leading his first VS, not wait til next May when he can climb Eliminate A.
To the OP:
My first VS lead was Brown Slabs Crack. This is a good route to go at being single pitch and with a well protected crux.
Another good one to go at is Klenne Rinne at Castle Rock South Crag. Nice rock, good climbing. Can be split into two pitches if necessary. Be careful though, belays at the top of the crag are tricky to find.
HTH
Most of the answers to this thread are for the following questions:
Name VSs in the Lakes you have done?
What is the best VS in the Lakes?
Also it is winter right now, presumably Ross wants to crack on with leading his first VS, not wait til next May when he can climb Eliminate A.
To the OP:
My first VS lead was Brown Slabs Crack. This is a good route to go at being single pitch and with a well protected crux.
Another good one to go at is Klenne Rinne at Castle Rock South Crag. Nice rock, good climbing. Can be split into two pitches if necessary. Be careful though, belays at the top of the crag are tricky to find.
HTH
In reply to Ross.Cooper:
VS is VS but for a nice safe one in a superb setting try Inominate Crack on Kern Knots http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=163378 but I would stay well away from Kleine Reinie as a first, it`s easy climbing but I rememeber thinking it needed a cool head, and perhaps not the best for a first VS
VS is VS but for a nice safe one in a superb setting try Inominate Crack on Kern Knots http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=163378 but I would stay well away from Kleine Reinie as a first, it`s easy climbing but I rememeber thinking it needed a cool head, and perhaps not the best for a first VS
In reply to JonC:
I'm interested to hear that - I always thought that it wasn't very steep or too necky. One of my favourite Langdale VSs
I'm interested to hear that - I always thought that it wasn't very steep or too necky. One of my favourite Langdale VSs
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
Tom - you clearly can't read. I suggested Brown SLabs Crack and Kleinne Rinne has come up a lot.
If this were a list of VS's we have done or 'best' VS's it would be a wholly different list. You come across as quite arrogant in this post - do you think you are the only one with a lot of experience in the Lakes, hmm?
Tom - you clearly can't read. I suggested Brown SLabs Crack and Kleinne Rinne has come up a lot.
If this were a list of VS's we have done or 'best' VS's it would be a wholly different list. You come across as quite arrogant in this post - do you think you are the only one with a lot of experience in the Lakes, hmm?
In reply to Toreador:
I did Sobrenada fairly early on too but on reflection it was quite tough and a little serious, as is that crag really. Happy memories though!
I did Sobrenada fairly early on too but on reflection it was quite tough and a little serious, as is that crag really. Happy memories though!
In reply to Calder:
I thought it was not even the best of the HVS's there. Terminator 2 is better. I agree, one could jump straight to it though as it's a safe as houses and v low in the grade.
I actually think that in their rather minor ways these 3 are all Lakeland gems and demonstrate some of the single pitch diversity in the Lakes when we tend to think of it as multi-pitch only.
> Oh, and Lakeland Cragsman is a lakeland gem as well, you know.
I thought it was not even the best of the HVS's there. Terminator 2 is better. I agree, one could jump straight to it though as it's a safe as houses and v low in the grade.
> Whereas Kleine Rinne, Brown Slabs Crack, and Enterprize are really really not.
I actually think that in their rather minor ways these 3 are all Lakeland gems and demonstrate some of the single pitch diversity in the Lakes when we tend to think of it as multi-pitch only.
In reply to JonC:
Fair do's. I guess they're just up against some pretty stiff competition!
> (In reply to Calder)
> [...]
>
> I actually think that in their rather minor ways these 3 are all Lakeland gems and demonstrate some of the single pitch diversity in the Lakes when we tend to think of it as multi-pitch only.
>
> I actually think that in their rather minor ways these 3 are all Lakeland gems and demonstrate some of the single pitch diversity in the Lakes when we tend to think of it as multi-pitch only.
Fair do's. I guess they're just up against some pretty stiff competition!
In reply to JonC: Much as I think Mendes is a superb route I wouldn't recommend for first lead at the grade. Route finding and rope management on pitch 1 is pretty tricky; if not leading through it's difficult at the alleged stance; and pitch two is quite bold. Like a lot of routes, OK if you've got a cool head on you.
My suggestion of Enterprize wasn't well-received, but in my view it's quite well protected with small wires and small to medium cams. Just need to look carefully, I reckon. And having a potential wimp-out option mightn't be bad idea! But I haven't reached this age with over 40 years climbing without learning the virtue of caution!
My suggestion of Enterprize wasn't well-received, but in my view it's quite well protected with small wires and small to medium cams. Just need to look carefully, I reckon. And having a potential wimp-out option mightn't be bad idea! But I haven't reached this age with over 40 years climbing without learning the virtue of caution!
In reply to Greenbanks: I'd second the Plumb - no route finding problems!
In reply to Greenbanks: Hedera Groove - too bold!
In reply to benallan: Short Notice is a fun variation, too. Quite steady, OK gear, easy to find.
In reply to Rog Wilko:
Yours was one of the comments that made me reconsider!
re Enterprize, I agree it's reasonably protected, but to me the crux was resisting the temptation to wander onto easier ground on either side. If you're pushing your grade this temptation could be too hard to resist!
Yours was one of the comments that made me reconsider!
re Enterprize, I agree it's reasonably protected, but to me the crux was resisting the temptation to wander onto easier ground on either side. If you're pushing your grade this temptation could be too hard to resist!
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Better to lead it, I thought! Much rather slither down that groove with a rope above me.
> (In reply to mark catcher)
>
> The great Haste Not is of course best left until one has quite a few VSs under one's belt. That traverse pitch is a lonely lead (and second)
>
> The great Haste Not is of course best left until one has quite a few VSs under one's belt. That traverse pitch is a lonely lead (and second)
Better to lead it, I thought! Much rather slither down that groove with a rope above me.
In reply to Rog Wilko:
Do you think I`m a cool dude Rog?
> (In reply to JonC) Much as I think Mendes is a superb route I wouldn't recommend for first lead at the grade. Route finding and rope management on pitch 1 is pretty tricky; if not leading through it's difficult at the alleged stance; and pitch two is quite bold. Like a lot of routes, OK if you've got a cool head on you.
>Do you think I`m a cool dude Rog?
In reply to JonC:
I just thought there were lots of stupid suggestions, considering we're in November.
Haste Knot is a ridiculous suggestion.
I know the two routes I suggested had been mention before. They're pretty strong North Lakes candidates though.
I just thought there were lots of stupid suggestions, considering we're in November.
Haste Knot is a ridiculous suggestion.
I know the two routes I suggested had been mention before. They're pretty strong North Lakes candidates though.
In reply to Ross.Cooper: And for a good "off the wall" suggestion I'd go for Flasherman (Armathwaite). Quite a memorable route I thought. Bit marginal to the Lakes I know, but going to be in the next FR&CC guide. And at this time of the year you've got a sporting chance of it being dry weather, dry rock, mild and sheltered.
In reply to sjc: Just take the implied compliment without going fishing for more.
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
This is a very good reply, I think. The OP has filed his request under beginners' questions, which suggests limited experience or extreme modesty. He doesn't say whether he has sampled the delights of Lakes MVSs, but if not perhaps he should. Here's a few crackers to cut your VS teeth on:
Fang
Asterisk
Aberration
Derision Groove
Introduction
Troutdale Ridge
Cereal Killer
Digitation
Agitation
West Wall Climb
There's plenty more.
> (In reply to Ross.Cooper)
>
> I'm struggling to think of a good first VS in the Lakes that isnt an MVS; it's almost a seperate grade in that part of the world. But a good way to stage your progression.
>
> I'm struggling to think of a good first VS in the Lakes that isnt an MVS; it's almost a seperate grade in that part of the world. But a good way to stage your progression.
This is a very good reply, I think. The OP has filed his request under beginners' questions, which suggests limited experience or extreme modesty. He doesn't say whether he has sampled the delights of Lakes MVSs, but if not perhaps he should. Here's a few crackers to cut your VS teeth on:
Fang
Asterisk
Aberration
Derision Groove
Introduction
Troutdale Ridge
Cereal Killer
Digitation
Agitation
West Wall Climb
There's plenty more.
In reply to GrahamD:
My memory is that The Crack on Gimmer is pretty reasonable. It's multipitch but I don't recall anything nasty. I've done it several times (including solo) but not recently, so maybe I'm mistaken. It's certainly a fine route.
My memory is that The Crack on Gimmer is pretty reasonable. It's multipitch but I don't recall anything nasty. I've done it several times (including solo) but not recently, so maybe I'm mistaken. It's certainly a fine route.
In reply to Dave Garnett:
Funnily I was thinking of the Crack too. It is pretty steady away with no real bold sections. Great route. I only didn't suggest it as long and fairly sustained. I still think something like slip Knot is perhaps a bit of an easier challenge as a 1st Lakes VS but theres nothing wrong with the Crack...
Funnily I was thinking of the Crack too. It is pretty steady away with no real bold sections. Great route. I only didn't suggest it as long and fairly sustained. I still think something like slip Knot is perhaps a bit of an easier challenge as a 1st Lakes VS but theres nothing wrong with the Crack...
In reply to Ross.Cooper: i really enjoyed ADAM on sheperds crag EVE looked good too but didnt have time.both VS.
In reply to minexplorer:
Eve at Shepherds is pretty bold on P2 with a few nasty accidents so not a great 1st VS probably. Adam is great but steep and fairly high in the grade; good pro mind.
Eve at Shepherds is pretty bold on P2 with a few nasty accidents so not a great 1st VS probably. Adam is great but steep and fairly high in the grade; good pro mind.
In reply to minexplorer:
Trust you to recommend something too hard mate! I wouldn't want Eve to be my first VS, great route but a tad full on for VS.
Trust you to recommend something too hard mate! I wouldn't want Eve to be my first VS, great route but a tad full on for VS.
In reply to Ross.Cooper: For Shepherds I'd recommend Short Notice, a VS direct variation on Ardus it can be done as 1 or 2 pitches is steady but a proper VS with good gear where it matters and is in a way a better route than Ardus.
Brown slabs crack (my first too) or Brown Crag Wall are both good shouts though.
Abberation on Quayfoot is great only MVS but as hard at times as most VSs on Shepherds. It doesn't dry as quickly as Shepherds though as it seeps a bit more.
Castle rock can feel a bit sparse for gear I think. Falcon MVSs are at least as hard as Shepherds VS, spinup has an intimidating second pitch
The Coffin on Black crag is steady VS on a great crag, might need a couple dry days though.
Have fun
Brown slabs crack (my first too) or Brown Crag Wall are both good shouts though.
Abberation on Quayfoot is great only MVS but as hard at times as most VSs on Shepherds. It doesn't dry as quickly as Shepherds though as it seeps a bit more.
Castle rock can feel a bit sparse for gear I think. Falcon MVSs are at least as hard as Shepherds VS, spinup has an intimidating second pitch
The Coffin on Black crag is steady VS on a great crag, might need a couple dry days though.
Have fun
In reply to Ross.Cooper: From what I remember I'd agree that the Coffin on Black Crag fits the bill. Even better would be Troutdale Pinnacle Direct on the same crag. 1st pitch is straightforward around severe, a good warm up for pitch 2. This is a longish pitch, quite sustained with a few 4c moves, but reasonably protected and never desperate. After that it's follow the original route to the top which includes the fantastic top pitch
In reply to Tom Ripley: Hey Tom, why's Haste Knot such a stupid suggestion? It gets all the afternoon sun going, and since when is November winter? You need to get out more... http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=185454
In reply to mark catcher:
Haste Not for a first VS lead is rather serious, the crux being a long traverse above and below big overhangs (a VS in E1 territory), and out of sight of the second for much of the way. Good to have the second nearby and below (so they can encourage you, and lower you if all goes pear-shaped) on a first VS. I think I happened to have about 100 VSs under my belt before I did Haste Not, and it still felt quite something.
Haste Not for a first VS lead is rather serious, the crux being a long traverse above and below big overhangs (a VS in E1 territory), and out of sight of the second for much of the way. Good to have the second nearby and below (so they can encourage you, and lower you if all goes pear-shaped) on a first VS. I think I happened to have about 100 VSs under my belt before I did Haste Not, and it still felt quite something.
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
He asked for recommendations and he got some. I'm sure he's intelligent enough to sift through them and choose one in a location that's appropriate. Give him some credit for christ's sake.
As for some suggestions being stupid - it's a matter of opinion, really. I think most were careful to avoid notably dangerous routes, and I don't really see the problem in suggesting the more difficult/committing VS's as long as they're safe. Some times it gives you the extra push you need for success, knowing that there's no easy option for bailing out.
He asked for recommendations and he got some. I'm sure he's intelligent enough to sift through them and choose one in a location that's appropriate. Give him some credit for christ's sake.
As for some suggestions being stupid - it's a matter of opinion, really. I think most were careful to avoid notably dangerous routes, and I don't really see the problem in suggesting the more difficult/committing VS's as long as they're safe. Some times it gives you the extra push you need for success, knowing that there's no easy option for bailing out.
In reply to Calder:
There is a tendancy, I think, to forget that VSs can often be quite serious and quite hard.
There is a tendancy, I think, to forget that VSs can often be quite serious and quite hard.
In reply to Ross.Cooper:
I did Botteril's Slab as my first ever mountain route and that was a great day out! Middle pitch felt solid VS to me, if not harder. But I'm average at best on grit crags so I probably just wasn't used to the exposure & height that comes with being on a mountain and not an outcrop? Would reccomend it to anyone though, fantastic route!
I did Botteril's Slab as my first ever mountain route and that was a great day out! Middle pitch felt solid VS to me, if not harder. But I'm average at best on grit crags so I probably just wasn't used to the exposure & height that comes with being on a mountain and not an outcrop? Would reccomend it to anyone though, fantastic route!
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: I agree Gordon, Haste Knots traverse isn't ideal as a first VS lead; character building though. It was more Toms suggestion that because it's November it would be preposterous to be venturing up White Ghyll. Its been pretty mild...till today that is!
In reply to mark catcher: Yes, wouldn't it be nice if the OP turns out to have been up here this week-end and actually got onto his first VS lead? After all, it's been about the best weekend for climbing in the Lakes since about last April. BTW, I was on Raven Crag above ODG on Saturday, a totally obvious crag to go to in November, and as we climbed in tee shirts we had the whole crag to ourselves from 9.30 till dusk. Where was everybody?
In reply to mark catcher:
Very minor point. Everyone keeps calling it Haste Knot. A bit sad this. These are arguably among the best named routes on any crag anywhere in Britain - the historical sequence of them is absolutely delicious:
First comes Haggas doing a route called (in the rather old fashioned/classical way) Gordian Knot in 1940
Then Birkett takes up the theme with the superbly named Slip Knot 1947, which works either way it's spelt. He was responsible for many of the routes that followed. Note how it's almost like a dialogue:
Haste Not 1948
Granny Knot 1948
Why Not 1949
Perhaps Not 1949
Do Not 1949
Question Not 1950
Not Again 1953
Laugh Not 1953 (Joe Brown speaks)
Eliminot 1957
Waste Not, Want Not 1977
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth) I agree Gordon, Haste Knots traverse isn't ideal as a first VS lead; character building though. It was more Toms suggestion that because it's November it would be preposterous to be venturing up White Ghyll. Its been pretty mild...till today that is!
Very minor point. Everyone keeps calling it Haste Knot. A bit sad this. These are arguably among the best named routes on any crag anywhere in Britain - the historical sequence of them is absolutely delicious:
First comes Haggas doing a route called (in the rather old fashioned/classical way) Gordian Knot in 1940
Then Birkett takes up the theme with the superbly named Slip Knot 1947, which works either way it's spelt. He was responsible for many of the routes that followed. Note how it's almost like a dialogue:
Haste Not 1948
Granny Knot 1948
Why Not 1949
Perhaps Not 1949
Do Not 1949
Question Not 1950
Not Again 1953
Laugh Not 1953 (Joe Brown speaks)
Eliminot 1957
Waste Not, Want Not 1977
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Ahh. My apologies; always nice to know the history of the classics.
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