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So, is there a real place for an electronic book? Will books cease to be of use? Is reading Kindle as enjoyable as the real thing?
I'd rather have the tactile, covered, page-turning experience. And when a good book is finished and the back cover is closed to; it's placed on a shelf where even the spine provides a hint of what you might read again, one day.
I'd rather have the tactile, covered, page-turning experience. And when a good book is finished and the back cover is closed to; it's placed on a shelf where even the spine provides a hint of what you might read again, one day.
In reply to scattercat:
I've been reading a fair few kindle books on my phone recently. It doesn't mean that printed books will cease to exist, or cease to be printed, it means that there is an alternative.
And in the case of my phone, one that can play music to me at the same time, if I want.
Also, I can carry lots of books around with me without having to have a large, heavy rucksac to do so...
I've been reading a fair few kindle books on my phone recently. It doesn't mean that printed books will cease to exist, or cease to be printed, it means that there is an alternative.
And in the case of my phone, one that can play music to me at the same time, if I want.
Also, I can carry lots of books around with me without having to have a large, heavy rucksac to do so...
In reply to scattercat: me too, but then my wife bought me a kindle cso she was fed up of all the books lying around. I havent looked back, instant books, all to hand, easy to read and hold. i think you'll be suprised especially as theyve got even smaller now.
In reply to Dominion: And as an added bonus, your wallet will be a lot lighter too.
In reply to scattercat:
I think the ebook revolution is a very interesting development in publishing - it reduces the stranglehold that traditional publishers have on the market, and avoids some of the issues with the likes of Tescos having a stronghold over bookselling.
I haven't yet gone down the kindle route, but having just moved house and shifted a (pardon the term) f*ckton of books to do so, I found myself questioning why a person buys books to hang on to - is it really to read again later, or is it to illustrate something to others? Perhaps Kindles are for the more honest and less insecure amongst us after all.
As I say, the jury's still out here at Chateau Tall Clare.
I think the ebook revolution is a very interesting development in publishing - it reduces the stranglehold that traditional publishers have on the market, and avoids some of the issues with the likes of Tescos having a stronghold over bookselling.
I haven't yet gone down the kindle route, but having just moved house and shifted a (pardon the term) f*ckton of books to do so, I found myself questioning why a person buys books to hang on to - is it really to read again later, or is it to illustrate something to others? Perhaps Kindles are for the more honest and less insecure amongst us after all.
As I say, the jury's still out here at Chateau Tall Clare.
In reply to scattercat:
It's an argument that's been done to death (well, certainly amongst some of my friends).
Although I've maintained an anti-kindle stance since I first heard of them, I'm starting to see the advantages. I could picture myself using one when I'm on the move, but I don't think they would ever completely replace real books. Reading is a tactile experience (as the op said, unfortunately being in to my second glass of red for the evening I can't think of a good synonym) and I, as I'm sure many others do, derive a certain pleasure from it. I can also understand the ownership aspect. Although I get most of my books from the library, I can see the attraction of a well stocked book shelf that can be perused at one's leisure.
When my friends have really pushed the issue with cold hard logic, my last line of defence is that it's yet another intrusion of technology into an aspect of life where it really isn't needed. Despite my being an engineer and, on the surface, someone with an affinity for all kinds of technology, I'm actually something of a Luddite deep down. Part of me inexplicably resents the way that gadgets have such a grip over us (take mobile phones for example, I'm sure we've all been mid way through a conversation only to have someone stop mid sentence to answer a phone. I actually took the effort to physically stand in front of you to talk to you, why does someone who couldn't be arsed to do the same take priority?). I'm perhaps not eloquent enough to convey my reasons, but I don't know, perhaps an electronic box is somehow faceless, whilst a book is more honest and personal.
I'm sure I'm not the only person with this sentiment. Maybe it's indicative of a deeper social unrest and a desire for life to be simpler and more straightforward (though whatever rose-tinted view of a 'simpler life' I or anyone else has has never existed...)
Anyway, this is getting a bit too ranty.
Some other points in favour of books are: you can tell how far you are through it. I know a Kindle will tell you the page number, but you can see the actual physical quantity of pages you've read and pages left, and derive a sense of satisfaction as the ratio moves. Also, other people can see what you're reading, so you can look really clever, or silently judge people who are reading the latest piece of trash.
It's an argument that's been done to death (well, certainly amongst some of my friends).
Although I've maintained an anti-kindle stance since I first heard of them, I'm starting to see the advantages. I could picture myself using one when I'm on the move, but I don't think they would ever completely replace real books. Reading is a tactile experience (as the op said, unfortunately being in to my second glass of red for the evening I can't think of a good synonym) and I, as I'm sure many others do, derive a certain pleasure from it. I can also understand the ownership aspect. Although I get most of my books from the library, I can see the attraction of a well stocked book shelf that can be perused at one's leisure.
When my friends have really pushed the issue with cold hard logic, my last line of defence is that it's yet another intrusion of technology into an aspect of life where it really isn't needed. Despite my being an engineer and, on the surface, someone with an affinity for all kinds of technology, I'm actually something of a Luddite deep down. Part of me inexplicably resents the way that gadgets have such a grip over us (take mobile phones for example, I'm sure we've all been mid way through a conversation only to have someone stop mid sentence to answer a phone. I actually took the effort to physically stand in front of you to talk to you, why does someone who couldn't be arsed to do the same take priority?). I'm perhaps not eloquent enough to convey my reasons, but I don't know, perhaps an electronic box is somehow faceless, whilst a book is more honest and personal.
I'm sure I'm not the only person with this sentiment. Maybe it's indicative of a deeper social unrest and a desire for life to be simpler and more straightforward (though whatever rose-tinted view of a 'simpler life' I or anyone else has has never existed...)
Anyway, this is getting a bit too ranty.
Some other points in favour of books are: you can tell how far you are through it. I know a Kindle will tell you the page number, but you can see the actual physical quantity of pages you've read and pages left, and derive a sense of satisfaction as the ratio moves. Also, other people can see what you're reading, so you can look really clever, or silently judge people who are reading the latest piece of trash.
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
There are a lot of free books that I got because I could, ones that I wanted to re-read
such as
Arthur Conan-Doyle
Mark Twain
Rudyard Kipling
Jack London
Thorne Smith
Robert E Howard
and some authors I want to read
Mary Shelley
Daniel Defoe
James Fennimore Cooper
Charles Darwin
I have a few books I have paid for, and about 20 or 30 that are free, so far.
> And as an added bonus, your wallet will be a lot lighter too.
There are a lot of free books that I got because I could, ones that I wanted to re-read
such as
Arthur Conan-Doyle
Mark Twain
Rudyard Kipling
Jack London
Thorne Smith
Robert E Howard
and some authors I want to read
Mary Shelley
Daniel Defoe
James Fennimore Cooper
Charles Darwin
I have a few books I have paid for, and about 20 or 30 that are free, so far.
In reply to scattercat:
Can I ask a practical question. Is there much advantage in shelling out extra for the one with a keyboard?
I guess in couple of years you'll be able to buy one with GPS so you can load on memory map and your guidebooks as well...
Can I ask a practical question. Is there much advantage in shelling out extra for the one with a keyboard?
I guess in couple of years you'll be able to buy one with GPS so you can load on memory map and your guidebooks as well...
In reply to Removed User:
Kindle works on android phones, which has GPS, and you can get mapping on.
And the Kindle Fire is an Android tablet, and expected to go on sale in the USA for $199, so about a third the price of an iPad, and will almost certainly get rooted so it can run anything (as well as just what Amazon put on it)
> I guess in couple of years you'll be able to buy one with GPS so you can load on memory map and your guidebooks as well...
Kindle works on android phones, which has GPS, and you can get mapping on.
And the Kindle Fire is an Android tablet, and expected to go on sale in the USA for $199, so about a third the price of an iPad, and will almost certainly get rooted so it can run anything (as well as just what Amazon put on it)
In reply to Removed User: Bigger memory and battery lasts a month longer........my wife just told me that as we are getting another one......she just told me that aswell.
In reply to Tall Clare et al:
I love that word, genius!
>I found myself questioning why a person buys books to hang on to - is it really to read again later, or is it to illustrate something to others?
Got something there, perhaps that's why my rather eclectic and large "library" is in the (converted) loft- good to hide away the anorakky railway books, pratchetts and Dick Francis stuff. In fact, considering I am such a bookophile, there's only 4 or 5 books in the downstairs house at the mo, of which I am reading three (yeah, at the same time!).
Incidentally, I keep lots of books because I really do re-read them! There's also a class of books I call "trash books" because that's what they are- light fluffy stuff good enough to send me to sleep at night, not worth the effort of reading again. They get bagged and taken to the charity shop or just binned.
I too am not convinced about Kindles.
Sx
>
> I haven't yet gone down the kindle route, but having just moved house and shifted a (pardon the term) f*ckton of books to do so,
> I haven't yet gone down the kindle route, but having just moved house and shifted a (pardon the term) f*ckton of books to do so,
I love that word, genius!
>I found myself questioning why a person buys books to hang on to - is it really to read again later, or is it to illustrate something to others?
Got something there, perhaps that's why my rather eclectic and large "library" is in the (converted) loft- good to hide away the anorakky railway books, pratchetts and Dick Francis stuff. In fact, considering I am such a bookophile, there's only 4 or 5 books in the downstairs house at the mo, of which I am reading three (yeah, at the same time!).
Incidentally, I keep lots of books because I really do re-read them! There's also a class of books I call "trash books" because that's what they are- light fluffy stuff good enough to send me to sleep at night, not worth the effort of reading again. They get bagged and taken to the charity shop or just binned.
I too am not convinced about Kindles.
Sx
In reply to a crap climber:
It will also give you a percentage too.
I bought a Kindle a few months back and although I wasn't sure at first, I've grown to love it. I'm away for work a fair bit and it's handy to be able to chuck it in a bag without having to cart a load of books about with me.
>
> Some other points in favour of books are: you can tell how far you are through it. I know a Kindle will tell you the page number...
> Some other points in favour of books are: you can tell how far you are through it. I know a Kindle will tell you the page number...
It will also give you a percentage too.
I bought a Kindle a few months back and although I wasn't sure at first, I've grown to love it. I'm away for work a fair bit and it's handy to be able to chuck it in a bag without having to cart a load of books about with me.
In reply to Sarah G: My wife was not convinced at first, but she rarely puts the thing down. She says she still likes the occasional fix of a real book though.
In reply to scattercat: Out of interest, how many would really prefer an iPad instead, but can't justify the cost? It does so much more, weighs and feels so much, ahem, sexier?
Mark
Mark
In reply to scattercat:
I suspect that there's an element of sentimentality towards books that will prevent e-books from taking as much of a hold as, for example mp3 (and similar formats) have in music.
Although I'm a big fan of digital distribution of software/music/films (why put something on a bit of plastic in a box in a lorry when you can send it down a wire) I'm sure I'd find it very difficult to abandon the token of achievement that a book represents. Each one is like a little certificate of something you've learned.
I suspect that there's an element of sentimentality towards books that will prevent e-books from taking as much of a hold as, for example mp3 (and similar formats) have in music.
Although I'm a big fan of digital distribution of software/music/films (why put something on a bit of plastic in a box in a lorry when you can send it down a wire) I'm sure I'd find it very difficult to abandon the token of achievement that a book represents. Each one is like a little certificate of something you've learned.
In reply to scattercat: Just bought the wife the new kindle and she loves it. She is using it all the time. It's lighter than most books and much easier to hold and read with one hand.
I was worried that it didn't have a keyboard and wondered if I'd bought the wrong one. However since we downloaded a few books on the first day which took roughly 1 minute and that includes typing with the 5 way controller she has never needed it since. If your going to use it primarily to read books the keyboard is a waste of space and makes it considerably heavier and bigger.
I was worried that it didn't have a keyboard and wondered if I'd bought the wrong one. However since we downloaded a few books on the first day which took roughly 1 minute and that includes typing with the 5 way controller she has never needed it since. If your going to use it primarily to read books the keyboard is a waste of space and makes it considerably heavier and bigger.
In reply to scattercat:
Advantages of eBooks:
1) No need for reading glasses, just make the text bigger.
2) Try before you buy samples available for everything.
3) Millions of titles available without leaving your bed/armchair.
4) No need for a bedside light for night-time reading (backlight versions only).
5) Dictionary on tap, literally.
6) Phrase search if you need to find a reference to something or a quote.
7) Tend to be cheaper than books.
8) No-one knows what you are reading.
Disadvantages:
1) Can't give the book to someone after you have finished.
2) Still lots of books aren't available in eBook format.
3) No-one knows what you are reading.
Alan
Advantages of eBooks:
1) No need for reading glasses, just make the text bigger.
2) Try before you buy samples available for everything.
3) Millions of titles available without leaving your bed/armchair.
4) No need for a bedside light for night-time reading (backlight versions only).
5) Dictionary on tap, literally.
6) Phrase search if you need to find a reference to something or a quote.
7) Tend to be cheaper than books.
8) No-one knows what you are reading.
Disadvantages:
1) Can't give the book to someone after you have finished.
2) Still lots of books aren't available in eBook format.
3) No-one knows what you are reading.
Alan
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
One of the best pros that I've heard is that when you're reading a massive book in bed, you can easily lie on your side without any difficulties in holding the book or having to spin round every time you turn the page so that the majority of the pages are at the bottom and resting on the bed.
One of the best pros that I've heard is that when you're reading a massive book in bed, you can easily lie on your side without any difficulties in holding the book or having to spin round every time you turn the page so that the majority of the pages are at the bottom and resting on the bed.
In reply to scattercat:
I've had my Kindle for a week and I wouldn't want to miss it. I don't think it'd ever replace real books, as I would always want to also own physical copies of books I like. Also it doesn't lend itself for graphic novels.
However if you're travelling a lot and don't want to be bound to just one book fitting in your handbag it's grand
I've had my Kindle for a week and I wouldn't want to miss it. I don't think it'd ever replace real books, as I would always want to also own physical copies of books I like. Also it doesn't lend itself for graphic novels.
However if you're travelling a lot and don't want to be bound to just one book fitting in your handbag it's grand
In reply
So technology marches on, and yes, there are so many advantages with the electronic book over the conventional.
Would you consider replacing all your climbing guidebooks with a Kindle? (taking into account that you may be able to anotate the pages within)
So technology marches on, and yes, there are so many advantages with the electronic book over the conventional.
Would you consider replacing all your climbing guidebooks with a Kindle? (taking into account that you may be able to anotate the pages within)
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
my mum got one for just this reason, next time i visit i will be borrowing it for the weekend to test it out properly and see if i want to get one myself.
nah we all know it is some low brow book, a survey has proved it (from the unchallengeable source of the news quiz a couple of weeks back).
Having had to trim back my book collection recently a kindle is looking like an ever better investment, i was rather impressed when i tried it out. Be interesting to see how quickly colour e-ink will come out, its been a "commercial product in a few months" for a couple of years now.
> 1) No need for reading glasses, just make the text bigger.
my mum got one for just this reason, next time i visit i will be borrowing it for the weekend to test it out properly and see if i want to get one myself.
> 8) No-one knows what you are reading.
nah we all know it is some low brow book, a survey has proved it (from the unchallengeable source of the news quiz a couple of weeks back).
Having had to trim back my book collection recently a kindle is looking like an ever better investment, i was rather impressed when i tried it out. Be interesting to see how quickly colour e-ink will come out, its been a "commercial product in a few months" for a couple of years now.
In reply to scattercat:
My other half has a few thousand books and we have literally run out of space to store them. I wanted to get her a Kindle, but being French, there aren't that many titles available compared to what's available in English. It turns out that the publishers in France have put up a big fight and are really stopping the kindle from taking off in France.
She has an android tablet with the kindle app, but I find that it's too painful on the eyes to read for any length of time. The kindle is much more like reading a real book.
My other half has a few thousand books and we have literally run out of space to store them. I wanted to get her a Kindle, but being French, there aren't that many titles available compared to what's available in English. It turns out that the publishers in France have put up a big fight and are really stopping the kindle from taking off in France.
She has an android tablet with the kindle app, but I find that it's too painful on the eyes to read for any length of time. The kindle is much more like reading a real book.
While nothing (for me) will ever replace the feel of, and usefulness of and love I have of paper books, kindle, and ipad are useful.
Most of the classics are available for a free download, and other books can be bought cheap (or stolen!)
I'm flying form Aus to the UK, and back again, soon, normally this would necessitate 4-6 paperbacks each way. Instead of that, I'm bringing the wife'e ipad, with 40 plus classics on it, plus some bought new releases, plus some magazines. A great saving in weight and space, and I'll get more choice.
Ps. Kindle owners, please buy this book!
http://www.amazon.com/Written-on-air-ebook/dp/B005CQ8CUW
Most of the classics are available for a free download, and other books can be bought cheap (or stolen!)
I'm flying form Aus to the UK, and back again, soon, normally this would necessitate 4-6 paperbacks each way. Instead of that, I'm bringing the wife'e ipad, with 40 plus classics on it, plus some bought new releases, plus some magazines. A great saving in weight and space, and I'll get more choice.
Ps. Kindle owners, please buy this book!
http://www.amazon.com/Written-on-air-ebook/dp/B005CQ8CUW
In reply to scattercat:
if you drop a real book in the bath you might get a soggy mess and wave bye bye to a fiver (probably bung the book on a radiator and wait for it to dry out) drop a kindle in the bath and it's significantly more expensive to replace.
I'm a real book girl - nothing smells like a brand new book.
if you drop a real book in the bath you might get a soggy mess and wave bye bye to a fiver (probably bung the book on a radiator and wait for it to dry out) drop a kindle in the bath and it's significantly more expensive to replace.
I'm a real book girl - nothing smells like a brand new book.
In reply to Pauline:
if you drop a real book in the bath you might get a soggy mess and wave bye bye to a fiver
Slightly tangential, but is reading in the bath purely a female thing?
if you drop a real book in the bath you might get a soggy mess and wave bye bye to a fiver
Slightly tangential, but is reading in the bath purely a female thing?
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Disadvantages:
4)You can't leave it lying around like you can with a book.
Disadvantages:
4)You can't leave it lying around like you can with a book.
In reply to Removed User:
> (In reply to Removed Userscattercat)
>
> Can I ask a practical question. Is there much advantage in shelling out extra for the one with a keyboard?
>
I've had my Kindle about 8 months and have yet to use the keyboard. I use it to read, and that's all.>
> Can I ask a practical question. Is there much advantage in shelling out extra for the one with a keyboard?
>
In reply to scattercat:
It's not an either/or decision. It's not like if you buy a kindle, no one will let you buy another book ever again.
I love my kindle and it's become an important part of my life - but I still do around 70% of my reading from paper. Also a number of books I have in both paper and electronic versions. Some books it's important to me to have the actual object, other books I'd actually much rather have an electronic copy.
It's not an either/or decision. It's not like if you buy a kindle, no one will let you buy another book ever again.
I love my kindle and it's become an important part of my life - but I still do around 70% of my reading from paper. Also a number of books I have in both paper and electronic versions. Some books it's important to me to have the actual object, other books I'd actually much rather have an electronic copy.
In reply to Mark Morris:
No comparison, they are different devices for different things. The Kindle is pure and simply and e-reader, it does one thing and it does it very, very well. I couldn't imagine sitting reading from an iPad for hours at a time. The Kindle also benefits from the e-ink display, it's not backlit and as a result doesn't reflect the glare from the sun.
If anyone's interested I managed to 'jailbreak' my Kindle. I'm now able to add my own screensavers rather than use the stock Kindle ones I think I've still got the instructions somewhere.
> (In reply to scattercat) Out of interest, how many would really prefer an iPad instead, but can't justify the cost? It does so much more, weighs and feels so much, ahem, sexier?
No comparison, they are different devices for different things. The Kindle is pure and simply and e-reader, it does one thing and it does it very, very well. I couldn't imagine sitting reading from an iPad for hours at a time. The Kindle also benefits from the e-ink display, it's not backlit and as a result doesn't reflect the glare from the sun.
If anyone's interested I managed to 'jailbreak' my Kindle. I'm now able to add my own screensavers rather than use the stock Kindle ones I think I've still got the instructions somewhere.
In reply to Mark Morris:
What sold the kindle to me was the e-paper. Ipad is just another backlit screen, so of no interest to me for book reading purposes. I can read my kindle in bright sunshine, couldn't do that with an ipad
> (In reply to scattercat) Out of interest, how many would really prefer an iPad instead, but can't justify the cost? It does so much more, weighs and feels so much, ahem, sexier?
> Mark
> Mark
What sold the kindle to me was the e-paper. Ipad is just another backlit screen, so of no interest to me for book reading purposes. I can read my kindle in bright sunshine, couldn't do that with an ipad
In reply to scattercat:
New releases can be very close or in some cases above the paper price.
New releases can be very close or in some cases above the paper price.
In reply to scattercat:
This reminds me of the digital camera debate and it's not as good as film etc. Who uses a film camera now? I'll be getting a Kindle very soon.
This reminds me of the digital camera debate and it's not as good as film etc. Who uses a film camera now? I'll be getting a Kindle very soon.
In reply to scattercat:
I expect reference books to be around for a long time, but to the people saying paper books will never be replaced etc, bare in mind that as of last year (last 3 months of 2010), electronic books were outselling paper books, and I suppose this trend has and will continue. Still reading paper books here though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12305015
> is there a real place for an electronic book? Will books cease to be of use?
I expect reference books to be around for a long time, but to the people saying paper books will never be replaced etc, bare in mind that as of last year (last 3 months of 2010), electronic books were outselling paper books, and I suppose this trend has and will continue. Still reading paper books here though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12305015
In reply to scattercat:
One or two people have mentioned re-reading which is a bit odd as you keep your kindle books just like you do a paperback on a shelf. You don't have to keep them on your Kindle if you don't want to, you can keep them in your Amazon archive and download them again when you want to re-read. I keep about two dozen books on my kindle and the rest stay in the archive until needed.
I don't think the kindle will replace my reference books anytime soon but for the kind of paperbacks that I read by the bucketload and then either bin or give away, it is ideal. As for the "people can't see what you are reading" argument, there are plenty of people who don't mind being seen with a Harry Potter or a Dan Brown so I can't think there are many who read for show.
One or two people have mentioned re-reading which is a bit odd as you keep your kindle books just like you do a paperback on a shelf. You don't have to keep them on your Kindle if you don't want to, you can keep them in your Amazon archive and download them again when you want to re-read. I keep about two dozen books on my kindle and the rest stay in the archive until needed.
I don't think the kindle will replace my reference books anytime soon but for the kind of paperbacks that I read by the bucketload and then either bin or give away, it is ideal. As for the "people can't see what you are reading" argument, there are plenty of people who don't mind being seen with a Harry Potter or a Dan Brown so I can't think there are many who read for show.
In reply to DynamoCL:
How many of these downloads were those of the "oh it's free, and it's kinda nice to have the complete oeuvre of Charles Dickens" kind, where the books are downloaded, but not neccessarily read instead of another book which had been bought in either format?
> (In reply to scattercat)
> [...]
>
> I expect reference books to be around for a long time, but to the people saying paper books will never be replaced etc, bare in mind that as of last year (last 3 months of 2010), electronic books were outselling paper books, and I suppose this trend has and will continue. Still reading paper books here though.
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12305015
> [...]
>
> I expect reference books to be around for a long time, but to the people saying paper books will never be replaced etc, bare in mind that as of last year (last 3 months of 2010), electronic books were outselling paper books, and I suppose this trend has and will continue. Still reading paper books here though.
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12305015
How many of these downloads were those of the "oh it's free, and it's kinda nice to have the complete oeuvre of Charles Dickens" kind, where the books are downloaded, but not neccessarily read instead of another book which had been bought in either format?
In reply to PaleMan:
I do! There's actually a bit of a film-user backlash against digital going on, but in fairness it's very small compared to the oodles of digital users out there now.
I do! There's actually a bit of a film-user backlash against digital going on, but in fairness it's very small compared to the oodles of digital users out there now.
In reply to violentViolet:
An eminent professor once suggested that the majority of Penguin Classics are bought to look good on the shelf rather than for reading. When Penguin changed the design of the spines there was a significant rise in sales - people re-buying books to match?
> How many of these downloads were those of the "oh it's free, and it's kinda nice to have the complete oeuvre of Charles Dickens" kind,
An eminent professor once suggested that the majority of Penguin Classics are bought to look good on the shelf rather than for reading. When Penguin changed the design of the spines there was a significant rise in sales - people re-buying books to match?
In reply to PaleMan:
Digital v film is a very different technological debate.
The book thing is more like mp3 v iTunes, digital rights etc.
I notice that amazon.com rent kindle copies too, which may be an indicator that perhaps people will just see books as temporary diversions rather than collectables.
One thing I don't understand is why the kindle is the same price everywhere.
> (In reply to scattercat)
>
> This reminds me of the digital camera debate and it's not as good as film etc. Who uses a film camera now? I'll be getting a Kindle very soon.
>
> This reminds me of the digital camera debate and it's not as good as film etc. Who uses a film camera now? I'll be getting a Kindle very soon.
Digital v film is a very different technological debate.
The book thing is more like mp3 v iTunes, digital rights etc.
I notice that amazon.com rent kindle copies too, which may be an indicator that perhaps people will just see books as temporary diversions rather than collectables.
One thing I don't understand is why the kindle is the same price everywhere.
In reply to Clarence:
Doesn't surprise me. The other thing is, only amazon sells Kindle books. Paper books you can buy lots and lots of other places. So amazon's own stats don't neccessarily say much, but are of course good PR for their product, so their bound report them.
Doesn't surprise me. The other thing is, only amazon sells Kindle books. Paper books you can buy lots and lots of other places. So amazon's own stats don't neccessarily say much, but are of course good PR for their product, so their bound report them.
In reply to Toby S:
Actually it is very easy to read the iPad for hours at a time. The screen can be dimmed easily and the different presentation modes makes it very comfortable on the eyes. There is no flicker at all. It does suffer from glare, but is has the benefit of being able to read at night without a bed-side lamp which is a bonus for those with partners sharing the same bed space.
Alan
> No comparison, they are different devices for different things. The Kindle is pure and simply and e-reader, it does one thing and it does it very, very well. I couldn't imagine sitting reading from an iPad for hours at a time. The Kindle also benefits from the e-ink display, it's not backlit and as a result doesn't reflect the glare from the sun.
Actually it is very easy to read the iPad for hours at a time. The screen can be dimmed easily and the different presentation modes makes it very comfortable on the eyes. There is no flicker at all. It does suffer from glare, but is has the benefit of being able to read at night without a bed-side lamp which is a bonus for those with partners sharing the same bed space.
Alan
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Yes but I have a tendency to fall asleep while reading which inevitably means whatever I'm holding gets dropped. The Kindle seems fairly bounce-proof, not sure I'd fancy trying that with the iPad
Yes but I have a tendency to fall asleep while reading which inevitably means whatever I'm holding gets dropped. The Kindle seems fairly bounce-proof, not sure I'd fancy trying that with the iPad
In reply to scattercat:
I love books - my house is full of them. But the Kindle is amazing - taking a massive library on trips used to be impossible, now it's the standard. Kindle books are also (contrary to popular belief) rather cheap, unless you go for the absolute latest releases. I basically carry the Kindle with me all the time.
I love books - my house is full of them. But the Kindle is amazing - taking a massive library on trips used to be impossible, now it's the standard. Kindle books are also (contrary to popular belief) rather cheap, unless you go for the absolute latest releases. I basically carry the Kindle with me all the time.
In reply to scattercat:
My friend said the killer app for him would be if when you bought a real book it had a code that allowed you to get the e version as well.
Cheers
Toby
My friend said the killer app for him would be if when you bought a real book it had a code that allowed you to get the e version as well.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to Stefan Kruger:
Not convinced Stefan. As a test I tried Douglas Coupland on Amazon and in almost every instance you could get the paperback cheaper than the eCopy. Microserfs was an eye watering £10:99!! Granted I never went to other e-stores but at least on Amazon I'm still not convince of the economoy of the devices. That said, my wife loves it and it takes a few kilos out of the holiday luggage.
Not convinced Stefan. As a test I tried Douglas Coupland on Amazon and in almost every instance you could get the paperback cheaper than the eCopy. Microserfs was an eye watering £10:99!! Granted I never went to other e-stores but at least on Amazon I'm still not convince of the economoy of the devices. That said, my wife loves it and it takes a few kilos out of the holiday luggage.
In reply to scattercat:
book shopping online just isn't the same as wondering around a shop reading random pages of books and buying on impulse..
book shopping online just isn't the same as wondering around a shop reading random pages of books and buying on impulse..
In reply to scattercat: a bookcase will be a very sad lonely looking thing with nowt on it other than a kindle!!
Give me a well stocked, groaning book case any day
Give me a well stocked, groaning book case any day
In reply to scattercat:
I really believe that paper and e-books are going to live alongside each other far into the future.
I really believe that paper and e-books are going to live alongside each other far into the future.
In reply to Pauline:
Was having a fiddle with my mother's kindle at the weekend and, while I'm very tempted, the one thing that's putting me off is that it doesn't look as though it would survive the sort of abuse I give the average paperback.
When I changed my sheets last night the inevitable crop of ballycumbers* were a rather sorry-looking lot - dog-eared, loose pages, tea-stains, beer-stains, the occasional dead insect and one which looked as though it had been swallowed and regurgitated.
(*"Ballycumber - one of the six half-read books lying somewhere in your bed." Douglas Adams and John Lloyd - The Deeper Meaning of Liff)
Was having a fiddle with my mother's kindle at the weekend and, while I'm very tempted, the one thing that's putting me off is that it doesn't look as though it would survive the sort of abuse I give the average paperback.
When I changed my sheets last night the inevitable crop of ballycumbers* were a rather sorry-looking lot - dog-eared, loose pages, tea-stains, beer-stains, the occasional dead insect and one which looked as though it had been swallowed and regurgitated.
(*"Ballycumber - one of the six half-read books lying somewhere in your bed." Douglas Adams and John Lloyd - The Deeper Meaning of Liff)
In reply to scattercat:
I love books. I'd happily read most on a Kindle, but there are always some that I would rather have a physical copy of.
Having said that, it's not so long since I was defending CDs as I loved having a physical presence for my music... Since my last house move, the vast majority of my CDs are in boxes under my bed, untouched.
I love books. I'd happily read most on a Kindle, but there are always some that I would rather have a physical copy of.
Having said that, it's not so long since I was defending CDs as I loved having a physical presence for my music... Since my last house move, the vast majority of my CDs are in boxes under my bed, untouched.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I agree. Much of the discussion so far seems to have assumed that all books are equal, but of course they're not. Large-format books - like your own glorious Cuillin book - will always work much better as a print edition than be constrained by a small screen. Highly illustrated works will also have a place as print editions.
Ebooks are here to stay, and will develop and evolve. There are fantastic publishing opportunities for ebooks, and good publishers are already adding extra features and functionality. I haven't got a Kindle yet, but I reckon it's only a matter of time, as soon as I can get over the technology thing of waiting for the next release which will be better than the last one.
> (In reply to scattercat)
>
> I really believe that paper and e-books are going to live alongside each other far into the future.
>
> I really believe that paper and e-books are going to live alongside each other far into the future.
I agree. Much of the discussion so far seems to have assumed that all books are equal, but of course they're not. Large-format books - like your own glorious Cuillin book - will always work much better as a print edition than be constrained by a small screen. Highly illustrated works will also have a place as print editions.
Ebooks are here to stay, and will develop and evolve. There are fantastic publishing opportunities for ebooks, and good publishers are already adding extra features and functionality. I haven't got a Kindle yet, but I reckon it's only a matter of time, as soon as I can get over the technology thing of waiting for the next release which will be better than the last one.
In reply to tony:
One thing I have noticed recently is that some small specialist publications get a small physical print run and then that's it, no more printings. Further sales are then PDF or MOBI format allowing the title to remain in circulation without the exorbitant cost of a second printing for a diminishing market.
One thing I have noticed recently is that some small specialist publications get a small physical print run and then that's it, no more printings. Further sales are then PDF or MOBI format allowing the title to remain in circulation without the exorbitant cost of a second printing for a diminishing market.
In reply to scattercat:
Real books and Kindle books are different things, each with their own place.
I love real books and their presence on the shelf isn't just posing, it does really say something about what is important to you. Currently, pictures, graphics, etc are much better on paper, but I currently live in Kabul where popping out and browsing through the local shops isn't so easy. My Kindle is a godsend, and as soon as I finish one book, I can lie in bed and browse for another. All paid for through cyberspace, and usually quite cheaply, too.
I resisted the kindle for a fair bit, but am really glad I took the plunge! However, I still love my bookshelves, love lending books out that have impressed me, and am never likely to get an autographed e-book!!
N
Real books and Kindle books are different things, each with their own place.
I love real books and their presence on the shelf isn't just posing, it does really say something about what is important to you. Currently, pictures, graphics, etc are much better on paper, but I currently live in Kabul where popping out and browsing through the local shops isn't so easy. My Kindle is a godsend, and as soon as I finish one book, I can lie in bed and browse for another. All paid for through cyberspace, and usually quite cheaply, too.
I resisted the kindle for a fair bit, but am really glad I took the plunge! However, I still love my bookshelves, love lending books out that have impressed me, and am never likely to get an autographed e-book!!
N
In reply to Nigel R Lewis:
> (In reply to scattercat)
> and am never likely to get an autographed e-book!!
>
>
Well, with a touch screen and a stylus...> and am never likely to get an autographed e-book!!
>
>
In reply
Reading through the replies, it's possibly time for me to get a Kindle.
But there is this little nagging doubt in my mind that it'll end up in a cupboard next to the Breville sandwich maker, the Coffee maker, the electronic Sudoku, the portable CD player and all of those anonymous chargers that must fit something!
A lot of people I know are re-buying LP's now. Okay, so they're still using MP3 players but Their CD collections are gathering dust.
I wonder what will come along after Kindle
Reading through the replies, it's possibly time for me to get a Kindle.
But there is this little nagging doubt in my mind that it'll end up in a cupboard next to the Breville sandwich maker, the Coffee maker, the electronic Sudoku, the portable CD player and all of those anonymous chargers that must fit something!
A lot of people I know are re-buying LP's now. Okay, so they're still using MP3 players but Their CD collections are gathering dust.
I wonder what will come along after Kindle
In reply to scattercat:
I think I'd reconsider E-Books once they get rid of the bloody VAT on them and bring the price down!
Why would I want to pay not far off the price of a proper book for an electronic download?
I think I'd reconsider E-Books once they get rid of the bloody VAT on them and bring the price down!
Why would I want to pay not far off the price of a proper book for an electronic download?
In reply to Sam_in_Leeds:
It's not 'an electronic download' in the sense of something inferior like a pirated movie, but a book in a different form. You also have to consider just what a knife edge the publishing world is on at the moment. The e-book is a threat to author and publisher alike ... in a world in which profit margins are extremely small anyway. Although the cost of producing an e-book is much lower than a conventional printed book, the other crucial costs of the author, designer, and publicity etc. remain just the same.
> (In reply to scattercat)
>
> I think I'd reconsider E-Books once they get rid of the bloody VAT on them and bring the price down!
>
> Why would I want to pay not far off the price of a proper book for an electronic download?
>
> I think I'd reconsider E-Books once they get rid of the bloody VAT on them and bring the price down!
>
> Why would I want to pay not far off the price of a proper book for an electronic download?
It's not 'an electronic download' in the sense of something inferior like a pirated movie, but a book in a different form. You also have to consider just what a knife edge the publishing world is on at the moment. The e-book is a threat to author and publisher alike ... in a world in which profit margins are extremely small anyway. Although the cost of producing an e-book is much lower than a conventional printed book, the other crucial costs of the author, designer, and publicity etc. remain just the same.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: I agree with you there, but VAT has no effect on the publisher and the profits they make. VAT should be removed from e-books.
In reply to Sam_in_Leeds:
Why wouldn't you if it's easier to carry, read and store?
> (In reply to scattercat)
>
> I think I'd reconsider E-Books once they get rid of the bloody VAT on them and bring the price down!
>
> Why would I want to pay not far off the price of a proper book for an electronic download?
>
> I think I'd reconsider E-Books once they get rid of the bloody VAT on them and bring the price down!
>
> Why would I want to pay not far off the price of a proper book for an electronic download?
Why wouldn't you if it's easier to carry, read and store?
In reply to violentViolet:
I agree.
And you can have FREE 3G, with a rudimentary web browser, wherever you are in the world.
>
> What sold the kindle to me was the e-paper. Ipad is just another backlit screen, so of no interest to me for book reading purposes. I can read my kindle in bright sunshine, couldn't do that with an ipad
> What sold the kindle to me was the e-paper. Ipad is just another backlit screen, so of no interest to me for book reading purposes. I can read my kindle in bright sunshine, couldn't do that with an ipad
I agree.
And you can have FREE 3G, with a rudimentary web browser, wherever you are in the world.
In reply to pffft:
I totally agree that there should be no VAT on ebooks. I should have mentioned that.
I totally agree that there should be no VAT on ebooks. I should have mentioned that.
In reply to Mark Morris:
iBooks are arguably nicer and the app better, but the range of books is substantially less. However, having the Kindle app on my iPad and iPhone provides the best of both worlds.
Absolutely swear by book, magazine and newspaper reading on the iPad but it will only be truly great once the produce a retina display for the pad (version 3 maybe?). Haven't bought paper books since getting the iPad.
> (In reply to scattercat) Out of interest, how many would really prefer an iPad instead,
iBooks are arguably nicer and the app better, but the range of books is substantially less. However, having the Kindle app on my iPad and iPhone provides the best of both worlds.
Absolutely swear by book, magazine and newspaper reading on the iPad but it will only be truly great once the produce a retina display for the pad (version 3 maybe?). Haven't bought paper books since getting the iPad.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
It's a webkit browser. Has many limitations (black and white, no multiple windows) and is quite slow through the free 3G, but it's good enough for Amazon bookstore, Wiki, Google and webmail etc. Which is enough to get some people by whilst away from home.
> (In reply to Kipper)
>
> Explain how the primitive web browser bit works.
>
> Explain how the primitive web browser bit works.
It's a webkit browser. Has many limitations (black and white, no multiple windows) and is quite slow through the free 3G, but it's good enough for Amazon bookstore, Wiki, Google and webmail etc. Which is enough to get some people by whilst away from home.
In reply to scattercat:
I haven't tried one yet and am wondering if I'll concentrate as much as I do with a real book where I read every word. Reading off screens I tend to lose attention very .......
I haven't tried one yet and am wondering if I'll concentrate as much as I do with a real book where I read every word. Reading off screens I tend to lose attention very .......
In reply to scattercat:
The big difference between books and ebooks is that the technology of books is mature, the technology of ebooks is still in its infancy. While the 'cons' of ebooks may outweight the 'pros' for some people, this will won't be the case with sucessive models as new features/improvements are added.
I love the kindle and have gone from a bout a book a month, to now with the kindle about 3 a month. Largely because I carry my kindle with me far more often than I'd carry a book. I'm currently reading my way through 'Moutaineering: The Freedom of the Hills' !
The big difference between books and ebooks is that the technology of books is mature, the technology of ebooks is still in its infancy. While the 'cons' of ebooks may outweight the 'pros' for some people, this will won't be the case with sucessive models as new features/improvements are added.
I love the kindle and have gone from a bout a book a month, to now with the kindle about 3 a month. Largely because I carry my kindle with me far more often than I'd carry a book. I'm currently reading my way through 'Moutaineering: The Freedom of the Hills' !
In reply to Bulls Crack:
Like others have said. The Kindle is not a screen, it's more like an etch-a-sketch and is in fact switched off and not consuming any power until you turn the page and momentarily comes to life.
Unlike a tablet or phone which is a multi purpose device, the Kindle is first and foremost a book and designed with the reader in mind. ( I have an iPad too BTW so can make the comparison)
Like others have said. The Kindle is not a screen, it's more like an etch-a-sketch and is in fact switched off and not consuming any power until you turn the page and momentarily comes to life.
Unlike a tablet or phone which is a multi purpose device, the Kindle is first and foremost a book and designed with the reader in mind. ( I have an iPad too BTW so can make the comparison)
In reply to Ben_SteepEdge:
I'd certainly be more interested in the Kindle when the Kindle Fire is released on these shores...
I'd certainly be more interested in the Kindle when the Kindle Fire is released on these shores...
In reply to Sam_in_Leeds: A friend of mine was going ski-touring, hut to hut, and with a long journey there and back. She took a Kindle even though she loves paper books - she's a fast reader and the weight issue made it a no-brainer. I had no idea how heavy books were until I got into hill-walking and became aware of the weight of just about everything.
In reply to Sam_in_Leeds:
That's the first time I've ever agreed with you.
> (In reply to scattercat)
>
> I think I'd reconsider E-Books once they get rid of the bloody VAT on them and bring the price down!
>
> Why would I want to pay not far off the price of a proper book for an electronic download?
>
> I think I'd reconsider E-Books once they get rid of the bloody VAT on them and bring the price down!
>
> Why would I want to pay not far off the price of a proper book for an electronic download?
That's the first time I've ever agreed with you.
In reply to MJ:
I dont know maybe we should take a UKC poll...
Hands up if you read in the bath and are... FEMALE.
Hands up if you read in the bath and are... MALE.
> (In reply to Pauline)
>
>
> Slightly tangential, but is reading in the bath purely a female thing?
>
>
> Slightly tangential, but is reading in the bath purely a female thing?
I dont know maybe we should take a UKC poll...
Hands up if you read in the bath and are... FEMALE.
Hands up if you read in the bath and are... MALE.
In reply to scattercat:
You can't surf the web for free on 3G using a book. Quite useful when you're abroad.
You can't surf the web for free on 3G using a book. Quite useful when you're abroad.
In reply to Pauline:
Yep.
> (In reply to MJ)
> [...]
> [...]
> Hands up if you read in the bath and are... MALE.
Yep.
In reply to Pauline: There is no bath where I currently live, but if there were, I would read books in it. Male.
>
> Hands up if you read in the bath and are... MALE.
> Hands up if you read in the bath and are... MALE.
Guilty as charged, but only if I can turn the hot tap on with my toes.
In reply to Bobling:
I've learnt how to turn both the hot and cold taps on and off with my toes. Yay go me!
Is toe tap turning a bath book readers special skill?
> [...]
>
> Guilty as charged, but only if I can turn the hot tap on with my toes.
>
> Guilty as charged, but only if I can turn the hot tap on with my toes.
I've learnt how to turn both the hot and cold taps on and off with my toes. Yay go me!
Is toe tap turning a bath book readers special skill?
In reply to scattercat:
I am not a kindle reader yet but I can see advantages (ease of carriage, convenience etc.) But I see it as something that compliments books rather than replacing them. I love having a good library, my office is floor to ceiling with books and I find it a very relaxing and pleasurable experience to contemplate them and pick up volumes at random. Obviously I could not carry them all about with me which is where a Kindle could be of some use (always providing the books I want can be had on Kindle, I am thinking here of Freeman records for Stafford 1500 - 1975 or "All done from memory" by Osbert Lancaster, "Beer and Skittles" or Gill Fawcett's "The Alternative guide to climbing"). But for me it is robustness too that books are more resilient but still readable.
I am not a kindle reader yet but I can see advantages (ease of carriage, convenience etc.) But I see it as something that compliments books rather than replacing them. I love having a good library, my office is floor to ceiling with books and I find it a very relaxing and pleasurable experience to contemplate them and pick up volumes at random. Obviously I could not carry them all about with me which is where a Kindle could be of some use (always providing the books I want can be had on Kindle, I am thinking here of Freeman records for Stafford 1500 - 1975 or "All done from memory" by Osbert Lancaster, "Beer and Skittles" or Gill Fawcett's "The Alternative guide to climbing"). But for me it is robustness too that books are more resilient but still readable.
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