UKC

How long did it take you to get in to leading E1? for me it was 10 months from the first outdoor trad climb.

In reply to janko440: I just did my first today! Only took about almost two years...

In reply to janko440: 19 months first lead (trad) to first E1. was quite chuffed, still am.

In reply to kwoods:

Well done!

I head pointed an E1, then dogged an E1, then did a 6m E1 solo with mats...

My first "real" E1 was Strabiombante 10 months after starting to lead.

In reply to janko440: I have some E1s lined up for my next trad outing, and I started doing trad at the start of march, so nearly 2 months I suppose. That said, I have done a boulder problem (6m) that apparently takes an E1 6b, but I would prefer to just go with the bouldering grade (also 6b), as I don't think an E grade is appropriate if you haven't got a rope anyway.

In reply to Madden:

Depends what would happen if you fell off. Many things that don't need a rope suit the E1 grade perfectly. The Irrepressible Urge at Burbage is the epitome of such a route (sadly I can't find a picture of it - but it's about 8m or so high, has no gear, is 5b, and you just can't pad it out to make it safe...it's a thing of great beauty, partly because of the danger involved in climbing it).

Btw that Child's Play problem looks fanatastic - I must get up there some time.

To the OP - I'd been climbing around for less than a year when I fell off an HVS and knackered my knee. As soon as I recovered, I got on my first E1. It was ages after that when I became even remotely 'solid' at the grade - I reckon it's best not to take the grades too seriously (even though we all do); after all, it's much easier to climb a soft E1 than a hard VS!

>> after all, it's much easier to climb a soft E1 than a hard VS!

Amen to that, I've climbed a good few routes in the E1/2... toughest experiences I've had are on VS's. (Factors include both climb and my preparedness!!!)

In reply to janko440: has taken me 10 months to lead an e1, trust me to pick one with f*ck all in the way of gear too haha

In reply to janko440:

Depends what you mean by getting "in to" leading E1.

If you mean happy to take on a lead of any E1, onsight, on any crag/rock type, multi-pitch as well as single, possibly in less than ideal conditions, possibly with a much less experienced partner, then I would say that 10 months is impressive indeed.

In reply to Tim_C7:

I remember cruising Yosemite wall, apparently e2 at stanage one day then going on to dog the file on the same afternoon!

In reply to janko440: It took me almost 4 years but there wasn't much in the way of gear back in 1967 so Extreme was exactly that, extreme and very serious. There was no 1, 2 3 etc. either so routes tended to be known by reputation.

Al

In reply to janko440: I led my first VDiff about three years ago, and it took me two years to lead my first E1 so ten months is pretty good!

What is odd is that it took me twice as long to get from VDiff to E1 as it did to get from E1 to E4, which only took me a year.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

It really is a good little piece of climbing. The bottom's got quite worn unfortunately, so it's become a lot easier to get onto than I think it once was. That said, the top is still in great condition, as it obviously spends a lot of time throwing people off. It's a classic little climb, which is easily padded out. If you like slabs even a tiny bit, I'd say it's worth a go.

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants: I'm with you Al - started in 69 at the tender age of 12. And in those days, you worked through the grades, making sure you had plenty of routes on all types of rock under your belt at one grade, before moving on to the next.

Did my first extreme at about 16/17 (Desperation at Stanage if I remember correctly) but by then, I'd probably climbed over 300 routes including around 50 top end HVS's on all types of rock (including plenty of poorly protected ones - we called them 'bold' back then)

Whilst it took you longer than today, the footage put in across all grades and styles/rock types/length, meant that you were always building on a good foundation, and when you got there, you could climb most routes at that grade.

Also this 'traditional apprenticeship' resulted in me climbing all the classic routes at each grade, when they were still landmark ascents for me - and gaining the most enjoyment, challenge and satisfaction.

People rushing through the grades these days miss out on so many fabulous routes and experiences.

In reply to Owen W-G:

Ditto on the file. The only route I've ever found as hard on second as on lead. Really didn't know how to jam, and if I can now, which is dubious, Higgar Tor can still stay well away from me!

In reply to Goucho:


I 100% agree with you! A lot of people are concerned more about the grades than the climb - in essence, ticking off rather than simply enjoying the climb! Some of the best routes that I have done have been in the Severe category (Class Distinction at Pigeon Rock in the Mournes - beautiful!).

Returning to the original post:

My first E1 came 3 weeks ago up at Fairhead. Railroad E1 5b *** - simply an outstanding route. Complete and utter pumpfest. Big contrast between my two frequent climbing areas (Mournes and Fairhead) is the length and also the amount of gear. This route was just gear on demand. Made the route feel so safe. I began trad climbing about 12 months ago, so roughly the same time frame. I'm in no rush though to start cruising through the grades, content to simply climb all the best climbs available!

In reply to janko440: Did my second E1 today (first was yesterday). My confidence has finally risen to meet technical skill (I started indoors you see) and it's been a long time coming.

In reply to janko440:

I've always been a slow developer. From my first outdoor climbing to first lead at each grade:
Mod & Diff - 6 months (in which I didn't really climb much!)
VDiff - 12 months
Severe - 14 months
HS - 14 months (I was on a roll...)
VS - 2 years
HVS - 5 years (and I did a lot of climbing in those intervening 3 years)
E1 - 7 years

So on that basis I'll be leading E2 at some point in the next decade, and E6 well into my old age.

In reply to nbrowne: I agree! some of my best days of climbing were in fact VD and Sev. Just wanted to ask what's other peoples's story of getting into E grades. cheers for all the answers guys

In reply to janko440:

I started outdoors this year and did my first E1 lead (Onsight) last month. It was Long Tall Sally and I think it must have just suited me as I haven't really been near fancying one since. HVS and VS seems to be my stomping ground at the mo.

In reply to paul29uk: First of all, congratulations. You have quite rightly recognised that one E1 does not an extreme climber make. The best way to get proficient at any grade is to consolidate at your current grade. That way the next grade comes much more naturally and you are better equipped to deal with the anomalies that arise without having to worry too much about if it's E1 or E2, 5b or 5c. You will just cope with it and move on.

Al

In reply to Tim_C7:

What was it that made them tougher, the physical or mental?

In reply to janko440: 10 months seems really good progress, good stuff. It's almost a year to date that I started trad and I'm confident that comfortable around I'm around VS, hoping to be somewhat comfortable leading HVS by the end of the year. Although, I'm told that may not be a great target as HVS can be a funny grade and plenty of E1's can be easier.

In reply to janko440: 3 months But then again I could already sport climb...

In reply to janko440: lead my first E1 on my second day of trad climbing, but I had five years of sport climbing experience behind me so hanging around long enough to work out how to protect the route wasn't so much of a problem.

Interested to hear those suggesting that going straight to the E grades means you're missing out though - what is it you can get at HVS that you can't get at E2?

Also, the suggestion of consolidating each grade - I've seen nothing so far to suggest trad grading is any more consistant than sport grading and I'm pretty sure not going out and trying really hard things there would have held me back... No Man's Land (E4 5c) at Pembroke seems way easier than Test Case (E3 5c) just along the crag a bit - so why limit yourself to someone else's numbers? If it looks a nice line and protectable, why not get on it?

In reply to Ciro: Interested to hear those suggesting that going straight to the E grades means you're missing out though - what is it you can get at HVS that you can't get at E2?

Well, there are hundreds of really great routes at all grades, and leaping onto the E grades as soon as possible, means you miss out on them (it's much more fun to climb a classic VS when that's your grade, than when you're climbing E3, for obvious reasons)

But if getting as many big E grade ticks as quickly as possible, is what flicks your switches, then fine, but you will miss out on some great routes and days out.

In reply to Ciro: You shouldn't limit yourself to some else's numbers but it depends upon your goals. For me it's not all about the grades. If you want to enjoy the routes consolidate. If you want to scare yourself and perhaps suffer serious injury because you are not ready by all means go for it. You sound like one of the lucky ones. Most sports climbers who I have climbed with have to drop several grades when they go on trad.

I would also agree that you would miss out on many great routes by chasing the numbers. I know several very good climbers who operated at a high level but didn't do any of the easier classics. They have now given up climbing. I think it depends upon what motivates you.

Al

In reply to janko440:

5 months, but it was a fairly intensive 5 months...

In reply to Goucho:


I don't really see why that should be the case, you can get immense pleasure from a route that's well within your capabilities. In fact, it could be argued you can only really relax and enjoy a line for it's own sake once it's well below your limit.


I never said building a list of ticks for the sake of the grade is important to me - even in sport climbing I'm moving away from that mentality. But learning to push your boundaries is immense fun in itself, and on top of that it expands your options - the harder you're climbing the more new crags become accessible, and the more options you have at any given crag (particularly useful on a busy weekend).

In reply to Gaston Rubberpants:

Sounds like we're pretty much in agreement then, I like to have my cake and eat it though - push myself some days and enjoy easier routes on others.

I'm just interested that there seems to be a trend on this board of discouraging attempts to progress quickly, which confuses me a little. I'm trying to imagine reading on a skiing forum someone suggesting you would miss out on the pleasure of all the great blue runs if you started on reds oo quickly, or on a triathlon forum being told you should do a lot of super-sprint races before trying a sprint (even if you have the skills and fitness to do so) and I can't see it. Is it something in the nature of climbing that causes this difference? Or the nature of trad climbing in particular? (I don't notice it so much on the sport climbing threads). Or is it particular to UKC? (I don't frequent any other climbing boards for comparison)

In reply to Ciro:

Presumably meaning "progress quickly" up the grade ladder. There's lots of other ways to "progress" as a climber.

In reply to bpmclimb:

Not really, I mean progressing quickly to harder climbs - what the individual finds hard, not a given grade - so could be for example climbing 7a slabs that you find difficult, when you can already climb 7b+ overhangs. Grades are however a convenient way to keep an eye on your progress - otherwise how else do you quantify it?

In reply to Ciro: You quantify it by how much fun you have, and how big the smile on your face is.

If that means constantly pushing the grades, then fine. However, it doesn't have to be all things to all people.

Sometimes you need to ask the question - Am I wanting to climb increasingly harder routes, because those routes appeal to me irrespective of their grade, or is it because I want to be seen to climb big numbers for the supposed kudos?

In reply to janko440: Well done Jan

In reply to Goucho:


I don't think you need to ask this question. How about:

- Am I wanting to climb increasingly harder routes because by choosing instead to stay within my comfort zone I'm not pushing myself, and therefore missing out on everything on the whole of the personal challenge that makes climbing so rewarding?

- Or do I fancy a nice day cragging, just choosing stuff that looks pleasant and fun, rather than genuinely challenging so I can enjoy the experience the same way I enjoy going out for a nice meal in a restaurant?

- Or am I a number chaser who gets more reward from doing a rubbish, overgraded Ex more than a quality, stiff E(x-1)?

Personally, I like the first two, on different occasions. I can't push myself all the time, the failure gets demoralising and you miss out on really great routes that aren't close to your limit, but are brilliant fun.

We're all motivated by slightly different things, and pushing yourself to your physical limits is no less worthy a motivation than a love of a certain route. It's just more sporty. The only motivation I look down on is literally number-chasing, when the motivation is to achieve a certain grade to prop up the ego and boast about it. I meet very few people like this, and I think it's very unfair to equate a desire to progress quickly up the grades with this motivation.

If you're good at climbing, progressing up the grades quickly is the only way to keep it genuinely challenging, and therefore fulfilling. The downside is you miss out on struggling up those tough VSs like they're the living end, but I'd sacrifice that for being able to climb inspiring lines that most people will never have what it takes for.

I wish I had that sort of talent - getting from one grade to the next takes me years of good trips, wash-outs, periods of failing on everything because my head's not in the right place, indoor training that doesn't translate to trad, the occasional cruise of a route I thought was at my limit, etc, etc, etc.

In reply to kwoods: nice one. I've only seconded E1's but looking to lead one soon.

In reply to Goucho:

Who said it did? It's not the fact that some people don't want to push themselves that surprises me, we all have different motivations - it's the posts suggesting to others that they shouldn't.


Very much the former. I think I've already stated that above, but just to illustrate - I'm just back from a trip to Finale Ligure where I climbed some amazing lines and didn't tick anything above 6c... I'm psyched to get back - particularly for two lines I came close to sending which were "only" 7a and 7a+. At the same time my partner realised a 16 year dream to onsight the roof pitch of a classic Manolo line... that pitch was three grades below his "best" onsight, but having been forced to aid the moves over the lip of the roof on second, I was certainly as impressed with his achievement as anything else I've seen him do.

In reply to Ciro: I don't think anyone has said you shouldn't push your grades if you want to, or that there's anything wrong with it, just that if you move on from one grade to another very quickly (a hand full of routes at one grade, then onto the next etc) you do miss out on some classic climbing.

Some people thrive on pushing themselves to ever greater challenges (we've all been there) whereas others are quite happy to enjoy the sport at a relaxing level. Neither is right or wrong it's just different strokes for different folks - at the end of the day, for 98% of climbers it is, at the end of the day, just a hobby.

And if you're inspired by the lines then good - go for it.

But there are a lot of people, who are simply chasing numbers for the sake of chasing numbers, and in the process, missing out on some great days out on the rock.

In reply to Goucho:

They certainly have on other threads on here - I got roasted for mentioning I was doing falling practice so I could get comfortable above gear and go for harder leads.


That's the bit I don't really get... why you would be missing out if you're having a ball. It's not like there's a shortage of great hard lines in the country to go at, and if you really can't bring yourself to lead the classic lines below your current grade on gear, you can always solo them to spice it up a bit

In reply to Ciro:
otherwise how else do you quantify it?

You could lead lots of routes at your current maximum and in the process get much better at ropework and placing gear. Just one example.

In reply to Ciro: You're obviously ambitious, and going after ever harder routes, so enjoy, and all the best with your ambitions.

As for soloing, well, I got a bit addicted to that a few years ago, and eventually, a nice relaxing trip around easier routes to round a day off, turned to ever harder routes, until late one afternoon, I found myself 3/4 of the way up Dry Gasp, no one else on the crag, sun starting to set, and suddenly out of both steam and brain power - how I managed the last 25' is something which remains a mystery to me (I think the safety mechanism in my mind has deleted the experience to prevent recurring nightmares).

It was a very cathartic moment, and made me realise, that there was a lot more to life than climbing hard for the sake of it, and within 6 months, I'd given up serious climbing (a very poor attempt and retreat, tail between legs, from the crux of Alien at Gogart, finally making me realise it was time to call it a day).

Yet when I look back now, I remember the mid grade classics I did en-route to the hard stuff, with as much affection and happiness, as the hard routes themselves.

In reply to janko440:

I scratched and jibbered up E1 seven months after I started leading but I'd seconded and bouldered quite a lot beforehand. I did a second one 6 months after that and thought I'd cracked this climbing lark...until I tried to get somre HVS mileage and fell off...a lot. 3 years later I'm starting to think that I may be solid at HVS, but could be wrong!

Grades are funny things and motivated my climbing for quite a while. That feeling of cracking the next grade and reliving the moves till you next climb is really wonderful, a beautiful thing leading you on like a psiren song to some very worrying places.

In reply to janko440:

I was seconding E1 in plimsolls within my first year of climbing (1970) - though it was actually Northumberland HVS at the time. I didn't get my first pair of rockboots until after I'd led my first VS as I didn't think I was a proper climber until then!

I moved to the Lakes and served my leading apprenticeship on the easier classics and became a more or less permanent 'steady second' on anything over VS. It took several years before I led my first Lakes E1 (though that was also graded HVS at the time and was only upgraded several years later). I just wasn't comfortable at HVS so rarely led anything harder.

In reply to janko440:
I don't like this question

In my logbook it looks like I only took 18 months, however, I suspect it was a bit longer.

What is concerning is the fact that since then I have only led a handful of E2s, all soft, since then in the past 7 years! Got to get up an E3 this year.

Cake

In reply to Cake: Indeed with onsights like the Tippler under your belt soft E3s are calling you.

In reply to Ciro:


You can get on good routes, routes given HVS.


No reason so long as you can get up or down off enough of them safely to enjoy the process.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

Took me about 18 months to get to attempting an E1 which was The Crease at Bamford. Strange one coz it's not too hard but you need a cool head

In reply to popebenedictus: and also strange as the HVS to the left is even harder (probably the original line of the route)