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I went to the Biscuit Factory yesterday, with great expectations from all that I had heard about it, and I'm sorry to say I was disappointed.
My first impression, was that they had tried to copy the design of the Climbing Works (the desk, the cubicles, the open layout) - the only thing is, it's much less appealing than the works. It's all grey and there isn't that much variety of walls if you think about it. They were all basically vertical or slightly overhanging.
There were lots of problems, granted, but they were all a bit samey, and there was a huge volume in the V2 - V4 range but not a huge amount above that. Maybe It's just me.
But am I the only one who thought it was a bad copy of the Works?
My first impression, was that they had tried to copy the design of the Climbing Works (the desk, the cubicles, the open layout) - the only thing is, it's much less appealing than the works. It's all grey and there isn't that much variety of walls if you think about it. They were all basically vertical or slightly overhanging.
There were lots of problems, granted, but they were all a bit samey, and there was a huge volume in the V2 - V4 range but not a huge amount above that. Maybe It's just me.
But am I the only one who thought it was a bad copy of the Works?
In reply to Alissabray:
Well, the greyness is a matter of taste, and I've never been to The Works, but when you say the walls are "all basically vertical or slightly overhanging" do you mean all apart from the slabs and the super-steep competition wall and the mantleshelfy-bit at the back and the sort of undercut barrel thing opposite it?
Well, the greyness is a matter of taste, and I've never been to The Works, but when you say the walls are "all basically vertical or slightly overhanging" do you mean all apart from the slabs and the super-steep competition wall and the mantleshelfy-bit at the back and the sort of undercut barrel thing opposite it?
In reply to Ramblin dave: Yes, well given the space, could they not have done more? Like a roof? Or a steeper wall? (because the comp wall isn't THAT steep). Yes those things look great (the mantleshelfy-bit and the barrel thing), but from climbing on them, I didn't feel like the climbs themselves were that interesting...
On a side note - If you ever get the chance to go to the works, It's amazing - seriously recommended.
On a side note - If you ever get the chance to go to the works, It's amazing - seriously recommended.
In reply to Alissabray:
Take it you've not been to the Arch? The 2 walls are meant to compliment one another. Many of the features that you yearn for/mention can be found there.
I'm sure given time the Biccie Factory will evolve and improve.
Just out of interest how long has the Works been open for? Never heard of it.
Take it you've not been to the Arch? The 2 walls are meant to compliment one another. Many of the features that you yearn for/mention can be found there.
I'm sure given time the Biccie Factory will evolve and improve.
Just out of interest how long has the Works been open for? Never heard of it.
In reply to Alissabray:
The green and red circuit are both V3-5? the pink/green is V4-6 with the white and yellow circuits being harder than that. Each circuit is getting on for 30 problems. If you get bored of circuits there are plenty of problems V5 upwards on the comp wall. So I think this point, specifically, is a bit unfair.
The original Arch has more of a skew toward steeper walls and roof features, and my understanding is the two walls are meant to be complementary. Worth checking Arch 1 out if you haven't already been.
> huge volume in the V2 - V4 range but not a huge amount above that.
The green and red circuit are both V3-5? the pink/green is V4-6 with the white and yellow circuits being harder than that. Each circuit is getting on for 30 problems. If you get bored of circuits there are plenty of problems V5 upwards on the comp wall. So I think this point, specifically, is a bit unfair.
The original Arch has more of a skew toward steeper walls and roof features, and my understanding is the two walls are meant to be complementary. Worth checking Arch 1 out if you haven't already been.
I have to admit, I find the Biscuit Factory to be an improved version of the Works. I think that the Works has the more imaginative route setters, but the problems at the Biscuit Factory are still far better than many places, and the huge amount of space and range of angles are excellent. Plus, you can still see what colour the holds are
In reply to SFM: I've been to the Arch many times, but I think the problems there are bar better set. Plus I don't think that you should have to go back and forth between two walls to get the variety.
The Climbing Works is where many of the best climbers in the Country/world train - I'm really surprised you haven't heard of it!
I'm sure I just hit a bad set, but for the hype I'm sorry I just didn't find it all that great at the BF..
The Climbing Works is where many of the best climbers in the Country/world train - I'm really surprised you haven't heard of it!
I'm sure I just hit a bad set, but for the hype I'm sorry I just didn't find it all that great at the BF..
In reply to sarahjharrison: Agreed on the dirtiness of the holds at the Works =P
In reply to Alissabray: If you went to the Biscuit Factory recently, I did think that the current set isn't as good as the first set - which is a real shame. (I've only been about 5 times, so it's possible I've missed a set.)
In reply to Alissabray:
Different markets though. Sheff's a small place with a big pool of keen climbers looking for a training venue. Plus people being rained off in the peak. London doesn't have that. What it does have is millions of non climbers and that's the market a big wall in London needs to tap into.
> There were lots of problems, granted, but they were all a bit samey, and there was a huge volume in the V2 - V4 range but not a huge amount above that.
Different markets though. Sheff's a small place with a big pool of keen climbers looking for a training venue. Plus people being rained off in the peak. London doesn't have that. What it does have is millions of non climbers and that's the market a big wall in London needs to tap into.
In reply to Alissabray:
Aren't many/most 'modern' panelled walls a bit samey? Seems to strike me when visiting various northern ones
Aren't many/most 'modern' panelled walls a bit samey? Seems to strike me when visiting various northern ones
In reply to Alissabray:
Yep. I love the place but there's no denying the holds are filthy, especially on the circuits that haven't been reset in a while. It'd probably help if folk were brushing a bit more.
Yep. I love the place but there's no denying the holds are filthy, especially on the circuits that haven't been reset in a while. It'd probably help if folk were brushing a bit more.
In reply to Bulls Crack:
Largely comes down to the ability and imagination of the setters I would say - it doesn't really matter if the wall itself is 'samey' as long as the problems aren't. Moving the larger volumes and wotnot around reasonably regularly prolly helps too.
Largely comes down to the ability and imagination of the setters I would say - it doesn't really matter if the wall itself is 'samey' as long as the problems aren't. Moving the larger volumes and wotnot around reasonably regularly prolly helps too.
In reply to Alissabray: Almost all of the bouldering walls opened recently have started with a lot of vert and get increasingly steeper - this has happened at the Works and the Depot most noticeably. They have plenty of space a the biscut factory so it may go the same way.
In reply to Alissabray: samey problems! surely this is due to the nature of circuits, circuits that are the same colour, so tend to have the same holds, which tend to work best at certain angles, meaning many moves, problems feel the same, add this to poor route setters and yes all a bit samey, completely agree! the biscuit factory is by no means a poor center, but i feel that the routes and route setting in general is quite poor, even the reach is seemingly setting better problems (imo) than the biscuit factory at the moment!
In reply to i.munro: nope unfortunately it hasnt, but there are some brilliant routes up there at the moment, all across the grades.
In reply to Alissabray:
Wasn't a fan of the place simply because it did seem in fact like a huge factory... I.e. rather soulless.
Too many people, too much in the way of wide open spaces. No intimacy, just another way of getting lost in London in a mass faceless throng of people. I can have that experience 24/7 in London elsewhere.
Wasn't a fan of the place simply because it did seem in fact like a huge factory... I.e. rather soulless.
Too many people, too much in the way of wide open spaces. No intimacy, just another way of getting lost in London in a mass faceless throng of people. I can have that experience 24/7 in London elsewhere.
In reply to i.munro: No, The Reach converted to circuits a couple of months back. IMO they have approached it very well. There is a good variety of problems within each grade range and it definitely doesn't suffer from a repeated use of holds. They have plenty of vert, steep and roof lines.
I find The Reach much better than Castle or Arch (haven't been to the BF yet). I find the Castle's problems deeply uninspiring and The Arch is too pokey although their problems smash the Castle's to bits.
I find The Reach much better than Castle or Arch (haven't been to the BF yet). I find the Castle's problems deeply uninspiring and The Arch is too pokey although their problems smash the Castle's to bits.
In reply to Alissabray:
I saw this big black line going diagonally up the middle of one of the vertical sections and at first glance i thought "oh that's clever they've got a crack like the works, could do with a practice" only to find that it was actually just a line of black paint.. there's a lot of potential at the biscuit factory but there's a few things it will never have; like natural light pouring in through the windows.
I saw this big black line going diagonally up the middle of one of the vertical sections and at first glance i thought "oh that's clever they've got a crack like the works, could do with a practice" only to find that it was actually just a line of black paint.. there's a lot of potential at the biscuit factory but there's a few things it will never have; like natural light pouring in through the windows.
In reply to SARS: I found that with the atmosphere too, was a little cold but not in temperature!
Looking back, maybe I was a bit quick to judge - but ditto to the poor route setting comments.
=) x
Looking back, maybe I was a bit quick to judge - but ditto to the poor route setting comments.
=) x
In reply to Fishmate: I always find the setting at the Castle to be.. awkward? I think would be the right word... The Reach is cool though =)
In reply to Alissabray:
The main thing that bugs me about the Castle (apart from the preponderance of circuits making it very hard to figure out how well you're doing on different styles of problem and hence figure out objectively what you're good and bad at) is that at some point in the last couple of years they've decided to just set far fewer problems. I don't really understand how that was an improvement if you wanted a proper bouldering session.
All that said, I'm a bit loath to start moaning about styles of route setting, for a variety of reasons:
* it might just not be to my taste
* I might have been having a bad day
* it might just be different from what I'm used to at my local wall (hence I got spanked and blamed "uncreative route setting")
* I feel pretty spoilt anyway given that people used to train on brick walls with the mortar chipped out and then climb E7
The main thing that bugs me about the Castle (apart from the preponderance of circuits making it very hard to figure out how well you're doing on different styles of problem and hence figure out objectively what you're good and bad at) is that at some point in the last couple of years they've decided to just set far fewer problems. I don't really understand how that was an improvement if you wanted a proper bouldering session.
All that said, I'm a bit loath to start moaning about styles of route setting, for a variety of reasons:
* it might just not be to my taste
* I might have been having a bad day
* it might just be different from what I'm used to at my local wall (hence I got spanked and blamed "uncreative route setting")
* I feel pretty spoilt anyway given that people used to train on brick walls with the mortar chipped out and then climb E7
In reply to Alissabray: I prefer it to the Works and having traveled alot in the last 2-3 years to most of the northern bouldering walls I would say the Biscuit factory stands shoulder to shoulder with the best up north.Reasons for this are
1.plenty of variety of styles,i would dispute they all feel the same this is the only wall in london where i have worked steepish problems at v4 to v5 with small footholds then walk around the corner and indeed worked on compression or crimpy technical problems etc etc.
There are about 120 problems there right now between v3 and v6 maybe more?
2.If you need to train,the 55 degree board is, once you get to know it one of the better boards i have climbed on.With enough input you can create from v3/4 to whatever.The Works and the depot have(had?) crazy beastmaster boards that looked nice if you were wanting to breakthrough to v11 or harder but not if you want to train at V4-7/8?I would recomend the BF board for getting stronger on if thats what you want but at achievable level(for experienced climbers that is).
3 I agree with a couple of posts the quality has been up and down but certainly compared to other walls in london its pretty consistent
Its been open for 3 months or so and when i have chatted to the workers there about personal gripes I might have had its been a pleasant suprise to get a nice co-operative response instead of an bored,elitist and distant one.
I like the place so I am biased.....!
1.plenty of variety of styles,i would dispute they all feel the same this is the only wall in london where i have worked steepish problems at v4 to v5 with small footholds then walk around the corner and indeed worked on compression or crimpy technical problems etc etc.
There are about 120 problems there right now between v3 and v6 maybe more?
2.If you need to train,the 55 degree board is, once you get to know it one of the better boards i have climbed on.With enough input you can create from v3/4 to whatever.The Works and the depot have(had?) crazy beastmaster boards that looked nice if you were wanting to breakthrough to v11 or harder but not if you want to train at V4-7/8?I would recomend the BF board for getting stronger on if thats what you want but at achievable level(for experienced climbers that is).
3 I agree with a couple of posts the quality has been up and down but certainly compared to other walls in london its pretty consistent
Its been open for 3 months or so and when i have chatted to the workers there about personal gripes I might have had its been a pleasant suprise to get a nice co-operative response instead of an bored,elitist and distant one.
I like the place so I am biased.....!
In reply to Alissabray: Hi Alissa, I'm Fred - the owner/manager of The Arch & The Biscuit Factory. Thanks for your feedback, I'll try to show you some of the thoughts that went into The Biscuit, so you can see where we were coming from, and welcome different views such as your post for giving me the chance to do so!
When building The Biscuit Factory we created a lot of things in contrast to The Arch, only partly to complement the two, but largely because we were unable to do so many things the first time around because of the space & nature of the spaces we were working with in London Bridge. Like The Works, The Biscuit is essentially a big open plan ex-industrial space - so we decided to keep things as open and wide as possible, rather than focusing on creating smaller sections and multiple angle changes. We also tried to avoid arch structures/high roof corridor type shapes/or corners & nooks - to avoid problems when the place gets busy (hence why the roof surface on the H island is so low down - to prevent people from walking under and getting dropped on from above).
In contrast to the volume of problems at The Arch, a circuit at The Biscuit is x30-40, plus a 30 problem comp wall, plus a 50 training board, a 40 endurance board & a moon board. Therefore, it was a deliberate decision, (actually inspired by Climb Newcastle), to put some gentler angles in, and lots of slabby/vert surfaces so that people would be able to come in and climb for a whole day without knocking themselves out in the first hour. More on setting in a moment though.
When we did the original artwork at The Arch (4 coats of paint back!), we invested lots of time & money in making things really colourful and involving graff writers etc. but got clear feedback that climbers felt this got in the way of routereading and hold colours, so we tried to learn from this experience and keep things plain, work in big blocks of simple colours, and again try to work on a big, open feel. The wall colours were kept muted aside from the yellows, so that the bright red carpeted mats, along with the wooden walkways would provide the "warmth" and tie all the space together (there are only 3 huge blocks of mat throughout the whole centre), so it really does feel massive. We also placed the low roof in front of the comp wall so that a crowd could sit the other side of the H island, and still see what was going on during a comp. I could keep going on about the design for ages, but probably best not to!
The decision to focus the setting in the V2-V4 range is deliberate, as this is where most people - even excellent boulderers - still do the volume of their climbing. We have tried to balance this by resetting the comp wall *monthly* with much harder individual problems & always involving top guest setters (Dave Barrans, Percy, Gaz etc.). Among the circuits, there are also some very hard problems - up to V8/9 as in the latest guest set by Chris Webb-Parsons for example. We bring in lots of guest setters every month, and our in-house setting manager Yann is one of the busiest and most actively progressive setters around - he was one of the setters for the BBCs this year.
Bouldering circuits are like marmite to climbers, but from a climbing wall's side of things, easily the best way of setting overall - whether it is for keeping walls fresh with fresh holds / for setting creativity & consistency / ordering full sets of holds for variety / ease of stripping & cleaning... the list goes on and on. We have tried both ways extensively, as we reset 2-3 times weekly, and we have found that setting a majority of circuits is hands down the better way forward in our experience.
The Works is, and will be for a long time, an undisputed reference among bouldering walls. Any modern bouldering facility across the world that says it is not somehow influenced by them is probably not being entirely honest or completely self-aware! However, I do not think it fair to say that we have copied them, or anyone else, as the end result is decidedly different - as you yourself have noticed. You describe similarities: "desk, cubicles, open layout" which are dictated by the building & providing a space that will not be dangerous/unpleasant when busy (what is the alternative - a closed layout?) If you look beyond the fact that we are similiar in building size & share some of our setters, there is really not that much on which to base any comparisons.
This kind of brings me to my longwinded point anyway...
Comparisons between walls really serve little purpose, other than to recognise that individuals have... well, individual tastes! There is no "best", nor is there any "worst" of walls, despite any amount of forum threads to the contrary. Likewise, it seems to be that the default way of talking about one climbing centre involves putting another down - not as good as... better than... bigger than... etc. The fact is that there is no "perfect" wall or template, and this can only be a great thing for climbing all-round as it means that each centre is very different from another. All that really exists thereafter are people's individual tastes.
I honestly don't know of any centre here in the UK that has copied another wall, and certainly not to the extent that you describe. Everyone who designs and builds these walls thinks of them as their own "baby" & are rightly proud of the struggles & the creative process that goes into them from concept right through to opening day. Indoor climbing is a community still - the centres & wall builders I know & meet are constantly checking out what is going on among one another - not to copy - but to improve, learn, and share experiences. This generosity has meant that there is such an incredible diversity, both within London centres & within the UK indoor climbing scene in general that there really is something for everyone now. What we should be recognising, and welcoming, is that we have so much choice in where we go & how we choose to spend our time/money when climbing.
At least, that's my thought on it. I don't mind if you prefer one wall over another, in fact I encourage your opinion & welcome any productive criticism. But please let centres stand in their own right!
When building The Biscuit Factory we created a lot of things in contrast to The Arch, only partly to complement the two, but largely because we were unable to do so many things the first time around because of the space & nature of the spaces we were working with in London Bridge. Like The Works, The Biscuit is essentially a big open plan ex-industrial space - so we decided to keep things as open and wide as possible, rather than focusing on creating smaller sections and multiple angle changes. We also tried to avoid arch structures/high roof corridor type shapes/or corners & nooks - to avoid problems when the place gets busy (hence why the roof surface on the H island is so low down - to prevent people from walking under and getting dropped on from above).
In contrast to the volume of problems at The Arch, a circuit at The Biscuit is x30-40, plus a 30 problem comp wall, plus a 50 training board, a 40 endurance board & a moon board. Therefore, it was a deliberate decision, (actually inspired by Climb Newcastle), to put some gentler angles in, and lots of slabby/vert surfaces so that people would be able to come in and climb for a whole day without knocking themselves out in the first hour. More on setting in a moment though.
When we did the original artwork at The Arch (4 coats of paint back!), we invested lots of time & money in making things really colourful and involving graff writers etc. but got clear feedback that climbers felt this got in the way of routereading and hold colours, so we tried to learn from this experience and keep things plain, work in big blocks of simple colours, and again try to work on a big, open feel. The wall colours were kept muted aside from the yellows, so that the bright red carpeted mats, along with the wooden walkways would provide the "warmth" and tie all the space together (there are only 3 huge blocks of mat throughout the whole centre), so it really does feel massive. We also placed the low roof in front of the comp wall so that a crowd could sit the other side of the H island, and still see what was going on during a comp. I could keep going on about the design for ages, but probably best not to!
The decision to focus the setting in the V2-V4 range is deliberate, as this is where most people - even excellent boulderers - still do the volume of their climbing. We have tried to balance this by resetting the comp wall *monthly* with much harder individual problems & always involving top guest setters (Dave Barrans, Percy, Gaz etc.). Among the circuits, there are also some very hard problems - up to V8/9 as in the latest guest set by Chris Webb-Parsons for example. We bring in lots of guest setters every month, and our in-house setting manager Yann is one of the busiest and most actively progressive setters around - he was one of the setters for the BBCs this year.
Bouldering circuits are like marmite to climbers, but from a climbing wall's side of things, easily the best way of setting overall - whether it is for keeping walls fresh with fresh holds / for setting creativity & consistency / ordering full sets of holds for variety / ease of stripping & cleaning... the list goes on and on. We have tried both ways extensively, as we reset 2-3 times weekly, and we have found that setting a majority of circuits is hands down the better way forward in our experience.
The Works is, and will be for a long time, an undisputed reference among bouldering walls. Any modern bouldering facility across the world that says it is not somehow influenced by them is probably not being entirely honest or completely self-aware! However, I do not think it fair to say that we have copied them, or anyone else, as the end result is decidedly different - as you yourself have noticed. You describe similarities: "desk, cubicles, open layout" which are dictated by the building & providing a space that will not be dangerous/unpleasant when busy (what is the alternative - a closed layout?) If you look beyond the fact that we are similiar in building size & share some of our setters, there is really not that much on which to base any comparisons.
This kind of brings me to my longwinded point anyway...
Comparisons between walls really serve little purpose, other than to recognise that individuals have... well, individual tastes! There is no "best", nor is there any "worst" of walls, despite any amount of forum threads to the contrary. Likewise, it seems to be that the default way of talking about one climbing centre involves putting another down - not as good as... better than... bigger than... etc. The fact is that there is no "perfect" wall or template, and this can only be a great thing for climbing all-round as it means that each centre is very different from another. All that really exists thereafter are people's individual tastes.
I honestly don't know of any centre here in the UK that has copied another wall, and certainly not to the extent that you describe. Everyone who designs and builds these walls thinks of them as their own "baby" & are rightly proud of the struggles & the creative process that goes into them from concept right through to opening day. Indoor climbing is a community still - the centres & wall builders I know & meet are constantly checking out what is going on among one another - not to copy - but to improve, learn, and share experiences. This generosity has meant that there is such an incredible diversity, both within London centres & within the UK indoor climbing scene in general that there really is something for everyone now. What we should be recognising, and welcoming, is that we have so much choice in where we go & how we choose to spend our time/money when climbing.
At least, that's my thought on it. I don't mind if you prefer one wall over another, in fact I encourage your opinion & welcome any productive criticism. But please let centres stand in their own right!
1
In reply to fred_stone: Where is the Like button?
In reply to fred_stone:
Thanks for taking the time to type that Fred, very interesting to read some insight.
Can I be one to say that I think the biscuit factory is brilliant - I wholeheartedly agree that there is no 'best' wall, just as there is no 'best' crag - all of the walls in central London have a distinctive personality. We don't have much rock down here but what we do have is a thriving, varied climbing wall scene, which collectively provide an unbelievable amount of climbing and the possibilities to train are really only limited by one's imagination. I frequent at least 3 of the main London walls on a weekly/biweekly basis and I think it's a real positive that each has its own individual style - not just in the layout of walls and features but the style of setting - providing contrasting and continually interesting climbing. I really feel that the Biscuit Factory has added something distinctive and unique to the existing walls as well as a massive volume of climbing - and I'm really pleased it seems to have picked up a solid and loyal following already. Good work.
Thanks for taking the time to type that Fred, very interesting to read some insight.
Can I be one to say that I think the biscuit factory is brilliant - I wholeheartedly agree that there is no 'best' wall, just as there is no 'best' crag - all of the walls in central London have a distinctive personality. We don't have much rock down here but what we do have is a thriving, varied climbing wall scene, which collectively provide an unbelievable amount of climbing and the possibilities to train are really only limited by one's imagination. I frequent at least 3 of the main London walls on a weekly/biweekly basis and I think it's a real positive that each has its own individual style - not just in the layout of walls and features but the style of setting - providing contrasting and continually interesting climbing. I really feel that the Biscuit Factory has added something distinctive and unique to the existing walls as well as a massive volume of climbing - and I'm really pleased it seems to have picked up a solid and loyal following already. Good work.
In reply to fred_stone:
Another vote for "great reply". I have to say, I didn't really get the objection to having a desk, cubicles and an open layout. It's a bit like complaining about a new house: "yeah, I really hate that it's got walls, windows and a front door"...
I think the Crystal Palace squash court has long since disappeared, but if you don't like open layouts, that would have been the one for you! I think the Biscuit Factory is great, and at a 7 minute trip through the Rotherhithe Tunnel (illegal u-turn notwithstanding) it gets my vote!
Another vote for "great reply". I have to say, I didn't really get the objection to having a desk, cubicles and an open layout. It's a bit like complaining about a new house: "yeah, I really hate that it's got walls, windows and a front door"...
I think the Crystal Palace squash court has long since disappeared, but if you don't like open layouts, that would have been the one for you! I think the Biscuit Factory is great, and at a 7 minute trip through the Rotherhithe Tunnel (illegal u-turn notwithstanding) it gets my vote!
In reply to Quiddity:
I totaly support what you are saying...I think london now has great walls and variety.There is some competition and copying ideas for sure but each has its own character and each has loads of value....Great for London climbers.
I totaly support what you are saying...I think london now has great walls and variety.There is some competition and copying ideas for sure but each has its own character and each has loads of value....Great for London climbers.
In reply to fred_stone: Thank you Fred, I appreciate you taking the time to write (all =P) that. I understand that you can't compare between walls as they are all different - BUT you must see that if one wall is better than another (In my opinion - and I'm not saying the BF is the worst/best by any means) people are going to base their decisions on where to train on that.
I don't actually live in London, I'm a dedicated Craggy climber, but I like to visit a London wall every weekend, so for me I really want to spend my money on what I deem to be the best for me. I will be back to the BF dw! Going to different walls is what keeps me sane =P
I understand you get excellent setters in, of course I am familiar with all their work - my only suggestion with regards to the setting would be that I felt the problems didn't really utilize the oddities in the features (as in had the feature not been there, the route probably would still be the same). Maybe imagination would be the right word?
And about the training area - top notch I have to admit - the steep woody is superb, and I had to sit next to a boyfriend in the car raving about the campus boards on the way home (especially the friction taped cylinders)
=) x
I don't actually live in London, I'm a dedicated Craggy climber, but I like to visit a London wall every weekend, so for me I really want to spend my money on what I deem to be the best for me. I will be back to the BF dw! Going to different walls is what keeps me sane =P
I understand you get excellent setters in, of course I am familiar with all their work - my only suggestion with regards to the setting would be that I felt the problems didn't really utilize the oddities in the features (as in had the feature not been there, the route probably would still be the same). Maybe imagination would be the right word?
And about the training area - top notch I have to admit - the steep woody is superb, and I had to sit next to a boyfriend in the car raving about the campus boards on the way home (especially the friction taped cylinders)
=) x
In reply to Alissabray: I would say the only negative thing about the biscuit factory is the lack of fans...
In reply to jules699:
Agree. I have really enjoyed the openness of the biscuit factory layout. Must admit I prefer less circuits but it is a nice contrast to my local wall Castle.
Great wall and it is now a favourite place to go on a wet weekend.
Agree. I have really enjoyed the openness of the biscuit factory layout. Must admit I prefer less circuits but it is a nice contrast to my local wall Castle.
Great wall and it is now a favourite place to go on a wet weekend.
In reply to Alissabray: Maybe you should visit the works at the weekend, or heaven forbid climb outside and stop moaning!
In reply to Chris Weedon:
I'm assuming this is your first time on the internet and you have no access to media of any sort and are blind and deaf also. It's been raining for the last 100 aeons. Even people who hate indoor walls are climbing indoors this year, especially in the south east. Not everyone can get away at the weekend
> (In reply to Alissabray) Maybe you should visit the works at the weekend, or heaven forbid climb outside and stop moaning!
I'm assuming this is your first time on the internet and you have no access to media of any sort and are blind and deaf also. It's been raining for the last 100 aeons. Even people who hate indoor walls are climbing indoors this year, especially in the south east. Not everyone can get away at the weekend
In reply to Chris Weedon:
Hey the moan generated a really insightful response from the owner, so made me happy!
Hey the moan generated a really insightful response from the owner, so made me happy!
In reply to Chris Weedon: Hey there is no need to be like that! You don't think I'm being driven crazy by the rain like everyone else? You can't just assume that because I posted about an indoor centre, I don't climb outside.
In reply to Chris Weedon:
Chris before you go shouting off about Alissabray, maybe you should have checked her info/profile. Where you would have seen that she does infact climb outside.
News flash Chris. When we have rain and lots of it, it drives all climbers inside. Be they Trad, Sport, Boulder or full time plastic fans. The weather tells us to be inside.
> (In reply to Alissabray) Maybe you should visit the works at the weekend, or heaven forbid climb outside and stop moaning!
Chris before you go shouting off about Alissabray, maybe you should have checked her info/profile. Where you would have seen that she does infact climb outside.
News flash Chris. When we have rain and lots of it, it drives all climbers inside. Be they Trad, Sport, Boulder or full time plastic fans. The weather tells us to be inside.
In reply to Alissabray:
To be fair, your original post did have some odd statements esp on the lack of problems above v4. There are absolutely loads! All the yellows , all the whites, the higher end reds and greens as well as most of the pink and greens.
To be fair, your original post did have some odd statements esp on the lack of problems above v4. There are absolutely loads! All the yellows , all the whites, the higher end reds and greens as well as most of the pink and greens.
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