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Hi All,
We are planning to head to the dolomites for a weeks climbing motivated by the stunning pictures and descriptions of the area. Between four of us we have a full trad rack and 25 QDs as well as other usual bits and bobs. Is this enough to get a complete experience of the dolomites or will it leaving the two without prot at the valley floor with nothing to climb?
A suggestion of a relevant guidebook would also be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Tim
We are planning to head to the dolomites for a weeks climbing motivated by the stunning pictures and descriptions of the area. Between four of us we have a full trad rack and 25 QDs as well as other usual bits and bobs. Is this enough to get a complete experience of the dolomites or will it leaving the two without prot at the valley floor with nothing to climb?
A suggestion of a relevant guidebook would also be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Tim
In reply to TJ1993:
Unless your going to do something unusual the normal rack for the Dolomites varies between just a few draws to a half set of larger nuts and maybe 3 cams and a few slings. The trade routes are generally littered with bolts and pegs (of varying quality) and the need to climb reasonably quickly means faffing around with gear isn´t the way to go. Some ab tat is desirable if it all goes haywire and for more obscure routes the odd peg and a hammer in your rucksack could be a good idea (never had to use them myself but certainly could have!).
Unless your going to do something unusual the normal rack for the Dolomites varies between just a few draws to a half set of larger nuts and maybe 3 cams and a few slings. The trade routes are generally littered with bolts and pegs (of varying quality) and the need to climb reasonably quickly means faffing around with gear isn´t the way to go. Some ab tat is desirable if it all goes haywire and for more obscure routes the odd peg and a hammer in your rucksack could be a good idea (never had to use them myself but certainly could have!).
In reply to TJ1993:
Where will you be based?
I lived in Corvara for a while and there's tonnes to do all within a fairly short drive.
Cinque Torri, Frea, Castello, Sass di Lacia, Sass di Stria, City of Rocks will give you plenty of sport climbing for a week long trip. Multi and single pitch.
There's a sport climbing guide book, in italian, but i've forgotten the name of it.
For trad there's "classic dolomite climbs" and the alpine club do their "east and west dolomites".
Plenty of detailed write ups about the dolomites from Rushy on UKC.
If you get a chance then head to Predazzo for a day of riverside, single pitch sport climbing on beautiful red granite with no one else around. http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=16467
Where will you be based?
I lived in Corvara for a while and there's tonnes to do all within a fairly short drive.
Cinque Torri, Frea, Castello, Sass di Lacia, Sass di Stria, City of Rocks will give you plenty of sport climbing for a week long trip. Multi and single pitch.
There's a sport climbing guide book, in italian, but i've forgotten the name of it.
For trad there's "classic dolomite climbs" and the alpine club do their "east and west dolomites".
Plenty of detailed write ups about the dolomites from Rushy on UKC.
If you get a chance then head to Predazzo for a day of riverside, single pitch sport climbing on beautiful red granite with no one else around. http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=16467
In reply to TJ1993: You can climb sport in the Dolomites and you can climb trad (as someone else said, trad routes still tend to have quite a bit of in situ pitons and bolts). I wouldn't start up a long trad route in the dolomites without a full trad rack though, if you decide to rely on pitons and bolts, at some stage you are going to have a very long runout.
There are some newer guidebooks available too:
http://www.cordee.co.uk/CCE377.php - I've got this one, it's pretty good, there is a Marmolada one in the same vein slated for release in August.
http://www.cordee.co.uk/Mid-Grade-Trad-Rock%3A-Western-Dolomites-Vol-1-det-...
http://www.cordee.co.uk/Mid-Grade-Trad-Rock%3A-Western-Dolomites-Vol-2-det-... - not got either of these two but probably worth flicking through if you are in a book store at some point.
There are some newer guidebooks available too:
http://www.cordee.co.uk/CCE377.php - I've got this one, it's pretty good, there is a Marmolada one in the same vein slated for release in August.
http://www.cordee.co.uk/Mid-Grade-Trad-Rock%3A-Western-Dolomites-Vol-1-det-...
http://www.cordee.co.uk/Mid-Grade-Trad-Rock%3A-Western-Dolomites-Vol-2-det-... - not got either of these two but probably worth flicking through if you are in a book store at some point.
In reply to henwardian:
..especially if you get off-route! Beware of the "false peg" which tempts you into a blind alley!
I've used this guide http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1315664.Classic_Rock_Climbs_in_the_Dolom... fairly successfully. It gives you a fair idea about where the climbs lie on the fixed-gear spectrum and includes most of the "must-dos"
I'd have to say that even on the crags mentioned like Cinque Torri and Sasso di Stria, some of the spacings between bolts are not very sports-climb like, and a few pieces can definitely settle the nerves!
> if you decide to rely on pitons and bolts, at some stage you are going to have a very long runout.
..especially if you get off-route! Beware of the "false peg" which tempts you into a blind alley!
I've used this guide http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1315664.Classic_Rock_Climbs_in_the_Dolom... fairly successfully. It gives you a fair idea about where the climbs lie on the fixed-gear spectrum and includes most of the "must-dos"
I'd have to say that even on the crags mentioned like Cinque Torri and Sasso di Stria, some of the spacings between bolts are not very sports-climb like, and a few pieces can definitely settle the nerves!
In reply to TJ1993:
Split that rack in half and it sounds OK (as long as there are lots of slings). All the recent guidebooks are OK. Continentals can be shit with gear so you will likley collect a few bits when out there.
Split that rack in half and it sounds OK (as long as there are lots of slings). All the recent guidebooks are OK. Continentals can be shit with gear so you will likley collect a few bits when out there.
In reply to TJ1993:
Thank you all for your input, looks like the trip will still go ahead. We are also climbig in innsbruck for a few days would you recommend spending more time around that area with the gear we have?
Thank you all for your input, looks like the trip will still go ahead. We are also climbig in innsbruck for a few days would you recommend spending more time around that area with the gear we have?
In reply to jimtitt:
I generally don't like the Dolomite Standard two manky pegs belay and prefer to back them up, but certanly wouldn't carry a full rack for most trade rouets. A set of wires and two or three medium cams.
And - to the OP - lots & lots of slings. Either buy plenty of thin 60cm spectra slings at home and take with you, or buy kevlar cord slings locally.
I generally don't like the Dolomite Standard two manky pegs belay and prefer to back them up, but certanly wouldn't carry a full rack for most trade rouets. A set of wires and two or three medium cams.
And - to the OP - lots & lots of slings. Either buy plenty of thin 60cm spectra slings at home and take with you, or buy kevlar cord slings locally.
In reply to TJ1993:
No. The climbing in the Dolomites is way better.
> (In reply to TJ1993)
>
> We are also climbig in innsbruck for a few days would you recommend spending more time around that area with the gear we have?
>
> We are also climbig in innsbruck for a few days would you recommend spending more time around that area with the gear we have?
No. The climbing in the Dolomites is way better.
In reply to RobbieT:
Actually not granite but porphyry, which is a cousin of rhyolite and also resembles basalt with its column formations and cracks. For real granite you need to go just a tad further south around Cima D'Asta.
> If you get a chance then head to Predazzo for a day of riverside, single pitch sport climbing on beautiful red granite with no one else around.
Actually not granite but porphyry, which is a cousin of rhyolite and also resembles basalt with its column formations and cracks. For real granite you need to go just a tad further south around Cima D'Asta.
In reply to TJ1993:
On longer routes if you are placeing a lot of gear you are probably moving too slowly. I found a half set of nuts and 1 and a 3 Camelots combined with a bunch of slings rigged as long extenders and a couple of ordinary extenders was about right.
On longer routes if you are placeing a lot of gear you are probably moving too slowly. I found a half set of nuts and 1 and a 3 Camelots combined with a bunch of slings rigged as long extenders and a couple of ordinary extenders was about right.
In reply to TJ1993: They tend to put bolts where it gets tricky so be prepared to run it out on the easier bits. And when you do get worried keep looking round and you'll usually find a bolt.
In reply to nastyned:
Are we talking about the same Dolomites?
> (In reply to TJPOON) They tend to put bolts where it gets tricky so be prepared to run it out on the easier bits. And when you do get worried keep looking round and you'll usually find a bolt.
Are we talking about the same Dolomites?
In reply to AlanLittle: If he had said peg rather than bolt I would have agreed but I haven't witnessed many bolts for protection on the numerous climbs I've done in the Dolomites over the years.
In reply to TJ1993: I've got to say, I don't really get this "only take half a rack" approach. Taking a normal full rack will not really add all _that_ much extra weight and there are lots of occasions when you will be rather glad you did bring a full rack, e.g.
- You got off route and now you are trying to force a route out of the top of the cliff on shitty rock without a manky piton in sight.
- You get into an epic and have to retreat on abseil, leaving a variety of gear as you go.
- You get on a route which is a bit less travelled and suddenly realise that is a lot less in-situ garbage than you are used to finding.
- The "scramble descent" is a lethal snow/ice slope ending in death and you find you have to abseil and leave gear because there are no anchors because it's considered a scramble.
...And that's just the situations I've encountered in a few years of holidays there, I'm sure there are many more types of epics awaiting their chance to give me a cold wet embrace while stealthily stealing my gear.
If you need to move fast on a route then by all means put in less gear, carrying a bit more on your harness for when it is needed is not going to slow you down but might save your bacon when things go wrong.
- You got off route and now you are trying to force a route out of the top of the cliff on shitty rock without a manky piton in sight.
- You get into an epic and have to retreat on abseil, leaving a variety of gear as you go.
- You get on a route which is a bit less travelled and suddenly realise that is a lot less in-situ garbage than you are used to finding.
- The "scramble descent" is a lethal snow/ice slope ending in death and you find you have to abseil and leave gear because there are no anchors because it's considered a scramble.
...And that's just the situations I've encountered in a few years of holidays there, I'm sure there are many more types of epics awaiting their chance to give me a cold wet embrace while stealthily stealing my gear.
If you need to move fast on a route then by all means put in less gear, carrying a bit more on your harness for when it is needed is not going to slow you down but might save your bacon when things go wrong.
In reply to TJ1993:
Would you really have bailed it rather than just bought more kit?
Personally I'd be wary about saying half a rack per leader would be enough without knowing what that rack consists of! People have some wildly differing ideas about what a trad rack is.
There is a huge spectrum of fixed gear in the Dolomites, everything from fully-bolted to a few manky pegs. Generally speaking the bigger and wilder the route the more rudimentary/lacking the fixed kit is, but you are advised to research each area/route in as much detail as possible!
The continentals do seem much better at running it out; we climbed like punter Brits and wasted way too much time fiddling in wires. Consequently we never achieved the speed that would have got us onto the really big routes.
> Thank you all for your input, looks like the trip will still go ahead.
Would you really have bailed it rather than just bought more kit?
Personally I'd be wary about saying half a rack per leader would be enough without knowing what that rack consists of! People have some wildly differing ideas about what a trad rack is.
There is a huge spectrum of fixed gear in the Dolomites, everything from fully-bolted to a few manky pegs. Generally speaking the bigger and wilder the route the more rudimentary/lacking the fixed kit is, but you are advised to research each area/route in as much detail as possible!
The continentals do seem much better at running it out; we climbed like punter Brits and wasted way too much time fiddling in wires. Consequently we never achieved the speed that would have got us onto the really big routes.
In reply to TJ1993:
The main problem with splitting the rack idea is I'm going with 2 exclusively sport climbers (don't know required trad systems for multipitch) and the third person isn't overly confident with leading trad. What would be best would be knowing that there are definitive sport routes (and sport multipitches) and the guidebook to go with it.
The main problem with splitting the rack idea is I'm going with 2 exclusively sport climbers (don't know required trad systems for multipitch) and the third person isn't overly confident with leading trad. What would be best would be knowing that there are definitive sport routes (and sport multipitches) and the guidebook to go with it.
In reply to Erstwhile:
Picky!
> (In reply to RobbieT)
>
>
> [...]
>
> Actually not granite but porphyry, which is a cousin of rhyolite and also resembles basalt ...
>
>
> [...]
>
> Actually not granite but porphyry, which is a cousin of rhyolite and also resembles basalt ...
Picky!
In reply to TJ1993:
You could get away with a tiny rack (for the last pitch) and about 5 quickdraws on the Messner Route at Neunerspitze. http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=100121
It's friction climbing on an awesome looking slab, if you want to experience pretty big run outs then just clip the pitons and the odd piece of insitu gear. Long walk in and out.
You could get away with a tiny rack (for the last pitch) and about 5 quickdraws on the Messner Route at Neunerspitze. http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=100121
It's friction climbing on an awesome looking slab, if you want to experience pretty big run outs then just clip the pitons and the odd piece of insitu gear. Long walk in and out.
In reply to henwardian:
Half a normal crag rack is what I use. The less gear you have the less clutter you have and the faster the handover is - probably the most important consideration on a 20 odd pitch route.
Its pretty unlikely that nothing will fit anywhere even with a limited amount of gear, especially as each wire is effectively two sizes.
Half a normal crag rack is what I use. The less gear you have the less clutter you have and the faster the handover is - probably the most important consideration on a 20 odd pitch route.
Its pretty unlikely that nothing will fit anywhere even with a limited amount of gear, especially as each wire is effectively two sizes.
In reply to TJ1993:
There's single pitch sport climbing, some of which is even supposed to be good e.g. City Of Rocks at the Sella Pass, but it isn't really the point of going there. There is also bolted multipitch stuff, but afaik all modern hard things.
The trade routes tend to be "alpine trad", i.e. could pretty much be done as clip-ups on pegs of varying vintage & quality if you're comfortable at the grade, but in reality even the locals tend to carry a light rack to supplement. A typical Dolomite trad route is no place for somebody who has only sport climbed and has no idea about supplementing/backing up questionable in-situ gear.
>
> What would be best would be knowing that there are definitive sport routes (and sport multipitches) and the guidebook to go with it.
> What would be best would be knowing that there are definitive sport routes (and sport multipitches) and the guidebook to go with it.
There's single pitch sport climbing, some of which is even supposed to be good e.g. City Of Rocks at the Sella Pass, but it isn't really the point of going there. There is also bolted multipitch stuff, but afaik all modern hard things.
The trade routes tend to be "alpine trad", i.e. could pretty much be done as clip-ups on pegs of varying vintage & quality if you're comfortable at the grade, but in reality even the locals tend to carry a light rack to supplement. A typical Dolomite trad route is no place for somebody who has only sport climbed and has no idea about supplementing/backing up questionable in-situ gear.
There is some excellent bolted multipitch sport climbing in the dolomites that requires little to no gear placing, e.g. (all grades are French):
Near Grödner Joch: Oro e Carbone 7a, Ottovolante 7a+
Parete Oscura della Luna: Several routes 6a-6c
Tre Cime: Perlen vor die Säue 7b
Rienzawand: Hat Spass gemacht 6b+
Lastoni di Formin: Love my Dog 6c+, Super Tegolina 6c+, Nikibi 6b+
Sella: Delenda Carthago 6b
Tofana: Grande Guerra 6b, Pacchia 6b+
There's certainly more than just this, but all these routes I can recommend from personal experience. Enjoy!
Near Grödner Joch: Oro e Carbone 7a, Ottovolante 7a+
Parete Oscura della Luna: Several routes 6a-6c
Tre Cime: Perlen vor die Säue 7b
Rienzawand: Hat Spass gemacht 6b+
Lastoni di Formin: Love my Dog 6c+, Super Tegolina 6c+, Nikibi 6b+
Sella: Delenda Carthago 6b
Tofana: Grande Guerra 6b, Pacchia 6b+
There's certainly more than just this, but all these routes I can recommend from personal experience. Enjoy!
In reply to GrahamD:
Speed of swap over is not the most important concern on a big route! And if that is becoming a problem, one partner can keep the rest of the rack on a harness loop they don't use, if it is suddenly needed by the leader, they can downclimb/lower back to the belay and if it is needed for retreat both partners will be together anyway. It's not a perfect solution but it will eliminate the extra swap-over time while still affording the advantages of a full rack.
I completely disagree. Assuming any kind of off-route scenario, there are plenty of faces on the dolomites where there is very little or no gear at all and plenty more places where the rock is shoddy and a lot of hunting is necessary to find anything reliable. I've found myself on terrain like this and been very happy to have my micronuts and big cams with me so I didn't have to body-belay in a pile of gravel and mud or abseil off a single piton I could waggle with my fingers.
> Half a normal crag rack is what I use. The less gear you have the less clutter you have and the faster the handover is - probably the most important consideration on a 20 odd pitch route.
Speed of swap over is not the most important concern on a big route! And if that is becoming a problem, one partner can keep the rest of the rack on a harness loop they don't use, if it is suddenly needed by the leader, they can downclimb/lower back to the belay and if it is needed for retreat both partners will be together anyway. It's not a perfect solution but it will eliminate the extra swap-over time while still affording the advantages of a full rack.
> Its pretty unlikely that nothing will fit anywhere even with a limited amount of gear, especially as each wire is effectively two sizes.
I completely disagree. Assuming any kind of off-route scenario, there are plenty of faces on the dolomites where there is very little or no gear at all and plenty more places where the rock is shoddy and a lot of hunting is necessary to find anything reliable. I've found myself on terrain like this and been very happy to have my micronuts and big cams with me so I didn't have to body-belay in a pile of gravel and mud or abseil off a single piton I could waggle with my fingers.
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