UKC

We we did this route at the weekend, we possibly made pitch 5 a bit harder than necessary as the first section of the right angled corner can be bypassed on the left however we both thought this more like HS/VS 4c/5a, the continuation of the corner above would still be 4b in my book (if by passing the start). Perhaps we were tired it was the end of a long day.

Whatever, a really good pitch on crazy looking rock.

In reply to CurlyStevo: Not sure about HS/VS 4c/5a but I certainly remember thinking it was no way just Severe. It having a nice ledge below and being escapable/avoidable I think limits it to HS at most. I wouldn't have thought it overgraded at HS 4c but it was damp when I did it and a grade is for perfect conditions.

In reply to CurlyStevo: Maybe HS 4b if that pitch was on its own but I think Severe is a fair grade for the whole route.

That last pitch is (if I remember correctly) not at all exposed and pretty short, even if it is a bit more technical than the rest of the route.

Great route - 4th pitch was my favourite.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Thank god we couldn't find the start when we looked at it the other week.

cheers

Gaz

In reply to CurlyStevo: some of the coolest Mosaic rock Ive ever seen. worth doing just for that.

In reply to CurlyStevo: Yeah bit of a surprise that pitch, certainly felt 4c going direct, I did wonder if most people took the left variant instead.
Great route though, I have been up to it twice before and never got it done, due to weather.
Finally did it this year part of a long day out starting with the Direct on the Mot, then on to Slow Ledge, then up Gambit to Gib Goch,and down via the north ridge. Followed by a curry and a beer, top day.
Jon

In reply to jshields:
" Direct on the Mot, then on to Slow Ledge, then up Gambit to Gib Goch,"

Snap except we also did main wall

In reply to psaunders:
How does that work then? Or am I misinterprating what you mean? The route as a whole must take the grade of the hardest pitch.

In reply to CurlyStevo: Excellent, that must have been a long day. I have done Main Wall before, which is why it was left out, that and we wanted Curry and beer!

In reply to psaunders:

That doesn't really add up a mutlipitch route is the grade of the hardest pitch

I suspect the route only gets VDiff / Severe if you avoid pitch 5 and the guide book should say as such and mention the corner variation as atleast HS 4c.

We climbed several VS pitches that day and we thought pitch 5 on the gambit climb was the hardest thing we had done all day!

In reply to jshields:
Yeah it was 12 hours pretty much car to car. I wanted to do Reades Route too but my climbing partner wisely talked me out of it. We had enough day light for Reades Route - just

In reply to CurlyStevo: Good effort, Reades is ok, all down to one worthwhile pitch really, tempting winter option though!

In reply to jshields:
Reades looks like a good line. We did western slabs instead of direct route. I'd like to do direct route in the enchainment another time and get reades route too, thats nie on 500 metres of technical climbing

In reply to CurlyStevo:
Reades is brilliant, we did it after Gambit, Crib Gioch after the crowds have gone makes a fine end to the day.

re Gambit, it was VDiff when we did it, and I didn't feel it was particularly undergraded. Yes, there's a 4b/c pitch, but it's short, well protected, and avoidable. It's not that unusual to have a much harder pitch on Welsh VDiffs, eg Longlands Continuation on Lliwedd, or the chimney pitch (and to a lesser extent the cave pitch) on Great Gully.

In reply to Toreador:
"It's not that unusual to have a much harder pitch on Welsh VDiffs"

Sounds like a misuse of the grading system to me. For Gambit climb if the harder pitch was mentioned as being a more difficult variation I think the grading at severe is fine (for pitch 1 and a few moves at the start of pitch 3)

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Quite possibly

In reply to CurlyStevo:

The corner is tough S 4b at the very least. Typical of Toreador to tongue-in-cheek defend the VDiff grade. Even the start is too hard for bog-standard VDiff.

In reply to Offwidth:
"The corner is tough S 4b at the very least."

Yes we were tired and that was the last pitch of a long day climbing with sacks on, I could maybe believe it was very stiff S 4b, it felt a full grade harder than that though.

"Even the start is too hard for bog-standard VDiff."
Agreed I think that is at least mid grade severe 4a. Great rock on that pitch

In reply to CurlyStevo:
I don't remember the start as being hard for VDiff - but may just have been climbing well and/or the style of climbing suited me (I often find this with mountain routes)

In reply to Toreador:
Perhaps you weren't thinking about it a lot of people have trouble grading well below their limit. It didn't feel difficult compared to the other pitches we'd already done that day, but I agree with Offwidth that it's above the VDiff grade.

In reply to Offwidth: Yorkshire V Diff!

In reply to jshields: Indeed! and it explains Toreador's grading.

In reply to Offwidth:
It's easier than this one (which is VDiff in the guide)
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=66442

In reply to Toreador:

I'm sure its easier than a few others too. That makes them all harder than VDiff. Its called the application of grading logic.

In reply to Offwidth:
Grades work differently in the Moors, hadn't you heard...

In reply to Toreador:

Yep and you can continue to glory in it. This however is a Snowdonia classic.