UKC

Ok, so I live in soft shells for climbing and only use hardshell trousers. I have a waterproof jacket I only use that for fieldwork as its totally useless for climbing.

I'm pretty interested in Neoshell and of all the jackets currently available the Apoc appears to tick most boxes, (fit is apparently a good slim cut, good hood, solid construction and great features).

Does anyone have any experience with this one?

In reply to GrendeI:

Yep. Maybe the best NS jacket around. Westcomb excell with stuff like that. Much like arcteryx but less bling-driven.
Ive only worn it briefly but would chose it over others (partly because it fits well).

In reply to ice.solo: how does it compare with the RAB Stretch or Marmot Nabu (looks pretty similar) jackets?

Those I can get my hands on pretty easily and I'm a little reluctant to spend without trying first.

In reply to GrendeI:

The others i cant say as not tried.

The apoc is very refined, so if you like pockets and burliness it may not suit, but then it may also be lighter.
Lighter still is westcombs switch jacket if youve seen that.

Like arcteryx, westcombs quality is in construction. Very well made in small volume.
I think any of them will do the job, so go by fit and feel.

From what know westcomb is rare in the uk, so maybe expensive with procurment issues. Good company tho, always been good with complaints as far as i know.

In reply to GrendeI: i bought an eider uphill jacket in neoshell,it ticked all the boxes lightweight/slim alpine cut/good hood etc...all was well until i climbed one mixed pitch,yes one,and i holed it in about fifteen places..!

i managed to seal all the holes from the inside with gore tex seam sealer tape but it was a lesson learned for me,i wont be buying such a thin lightweight jacket again.

i would normally have worn my softshell but that day it was rain up till 600m and then snow so i figured i had to wear the hardshell all the time knowing that it was risky for mixed,ive wondered about the nabu because a softshell feel and durability but waterproof when needed would be good for mixed but heavier and bigger pack size.

i dont know about the rab or westcomb fabric thickness etc but its definetly something to think about.

cheers cliff...

In reply to cliff shasby: I can't really see the point of Neoshell in a climbers' hardshell implementation. Goretex Pro is so durable.

In a softshell, however, Neoshell makes perfect sense. Yet only the Marmot Nabu seems to fit that description at the moment. I'd like to try one and I believe it'll be readily available soon. How good would it be to only need a base layer and softshell outer, yet stay dry in sun and rain?! But I have doubts about the weight of the Nabu. 600g+ is a winter weight, restricting use to colder days out. I reckon another year's fabric development may be required to find a softshell fabric implementation with the perfect balance of weight, durability and performance.

In reply to GrendeI:

Don't know what the APOC is like but the Nabu has a semi softshell feeling to it. Thickish stretchy material, not quite as much as the Zion, but still different feeling from your classic hardshell.

The only Westcomb jacket I've tried is http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=2285 and it's good - nicely made. I've just received the Jöttnar neoshell jacket - stripped down, hardcore, neoshell hardshell with a good hood. Very much 'core' climbing oriented. If you want a Neoshell hardshell (as opposed to a softshell-feel jacket like the nabu), then might be worth trying to check out the Jöttnar offering as well as the Westcomb.

In reply to TobyA: What is the cut and quality of the Jottnar stuff, both jacket and trousers?

After a lot of back-chatter and relatively discreet hype I am expecting great things. Some of their product pics look very enticing and I have actually put off buying a hardshell for a while, just to see what they come out with (only a few days now isn't it?), but I also need an alternative.

I'm after a hardshell version, as I already have a softshell that I'm super happy with so it's the more traditional hardshell type I'm after, ideally quite lightweight as its more of a moody day backup.

In reply to GrendeI: Literally only got the packages in the last few days, so the neoshell stuff I've just tried on. All looks very promising though. Fit is always super personal, but the bibs in medium are fantastic for me and although I'm reasonably fit (32-34 waist) I've got big thighs which can be tight in some mediums. The jacket is great across my chest and shoulders which are often to big for RAB medium for instance. I would say fitted for stout mountaineering types rather than skinny rockstars/fell runners! Wore the down jacket for much of yesterday whilst out cragging on cold, blowy, damp, leafy sort of end-of-season day. It was pretty lush but to be honest and old warm coat will work decently enough for cragging. But it was nice to have one that snuggly. Need some crappier weather to start testing the Neoshell.

BTW the Nabu works fine as a hardshell because it is waterproof (used mine sea kayaking for example); but it has light but fuzzy interior and the face fabric is softer than your classic goretex, hence the 'softshell-y' feel.

In reply to GrendeI: BTW, I think the Jöttnar official launch is imminent so all will be revealed very soon - then you'll get a much better idea of whether it could be the type of thing you're looking for. But I don't want to steal their thunder so I'm not going to have any pics of the gear in action etc. until they've launched; I'll just say that what I've seen so far looks great; but of course its not going to be cheap although I think not so different from any other top quality kit.

In reply to TobyA: Sweet, thank you for that. I guess I'll hold out a little longer and also see if I can source one of the Marmot jackets to try out.

In reply to BnB: The point in the neoshell for me was ive never been able to wear gore tex,i overheat almost instantly,yet ive been able to wear berghaus/lowe/patagonia's own fabrics,i especially found the fabric on my old stretch element far more breathable than gore tex,so neoshell seemed the obvious direction to go.

In reply to GrendeI:

I had a bit of a go of BDs new stuff this weekend. Mostly schoeller hybrid.
Serious contenders. Not as svelt as westcomb, but very functional.

In reply to cliff shasby: Here's a hint of the Jöttnar neoshell https://twitter.com/TobyinHelsinki/status/383603771827175424/photo/1
and here's just a taste of their rather swish down jacket
https://twitter.com/TobyinHelsinki/status/384426029915189248/photo/1