UKC

Winterclimbing in Scotland: where to start?

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 ijsbeer 15 Sep 2014
Hi guys,

After having spent some summers in the Alps and having done some WS/PD tours (however, no AD or whatsoever) I'd like to come and visit the UK (Scotland/Snowdonia/...) during the winter. Hence, I'm wondering what would be a nice place to start for an alpinist with little like me. Does anybody have any suggestions?

Arjen
 jonnie3430 15 Sep 2014
In reply to ijsbeer:

a weekend in late february or early march in Cairngorm's northern Corrie's? Can you get on the BMC international meet about that time through your national mountaineering club? You'd get a local that knows their stuff as a partner too.
 Jon Wickham 16 Sep 2014
In reply to ijsbeer:

People new to Scottish Winter climbing (and the not so new) often gravitate to the Northern Corries due to it's variety of routes with easy access. However this year I would give it a miss due to "serious concerns over the state of the cliffs". See MCofS information below.

http://www.mcofs.org.uk/news.asp?s=2&id=MCS-N11497&nc=Mountain%20Sa...
 StuDoig 16 Sep 2014
In reply to ijsbeer:

Hi Arjen,
Feb/March are normally safe bets for timing. One key thing with Scottish winter is Flexibility. It can be crap in the Cairngorms, and amazing in the West and vice versa, changing day to day! Look to book somewhere that you can strike out east or west from (Roy Bridge is a good example). Your own transportation would help too! If for whatever reason you can't move about (e.g. no transport) then it's rare that there's nothing climbable on Ben Nevis and Anoch Mor. You may just end up feeling hacked off that 50 miles away they have perfect conditions! :O)

Northern Corries already mentioned are always popular as they have a short approach (c.45mins into the first corrie), and the routes are short with a good selection at easy / intermediate grades. above 850m so normally pretty reliable too. There is a lot of concern at the minute about rock stability after last winters unusual snows and amazing amounts of rainfall over a single day last month, but this isn't unique to the northern corries - they are just the most obvious venue due to their popularity, proximity to ski centre and major guiding location. Pretty much every where should be treated cautiously this year I suspect, at least until folk get a feel for how stability has been affected in various places.

If you've no partner, then you could look to join a training course covering basic mountaineering / winter climbing. Glenmore lodge have a good selection, but independents (a friend highly recommends Martin Moran) may be bit more flexible, or offer different course more suited to what you want to do. An advantage to the lodge is that they will throw in food and accommodation (both of which are generally excellent). Plus you'll meet a whole bunch of folk to potentially go climbing with after the course.

Alternatively, advertise on here or elsewhere for climbing partners - you may find someone who's keen to head out with you when / if you come over.

Even better if you can make it over with your regular climbing partner - you'll definitely appreciate the piece of mind of knowing and REALLY trusting the person on the other end of the rope 2/3 of the way up a sketchy pitch!

Cheers and hope you make it over!

Cheers,

Stuart

 drsdave 16 Sep 2014
In reply to ijsbeer:

Hi Ijsbeer, theres some good advice posted here. It sounds like you'll be committing to the UK so weather dependent get yourself over, remember though, time spent in reconnaissance is never wasted. You could do just as well to hire out a guide for a couple of days to get you into the swing of things and a taste for it, then hook up with others via ukc forums.
1. Abacus Mountaineering could prove decent as they know Ben Nevis fairly well
2.Skye Guides and Mike Lates if and only if the Cuillin is on form - good luck with that one.


 peebles boy 17 Sep 2014
In reply to Jon Wickham:

Cheers for flagging that up, hadn't seen that.
 danm 17 Sep 2014
In reply to ijsbeer:

Looking at the level you've climbed at in the Alps (up to PD), if I were you I'd aim at the classic ridge traverses, which give some amazing days out with little technical difficulty and translate closest to what you may have done in the Alps. They tend to be less fickle with regards to conditions as well. Scottish grade 1-111 you've got stuff like:

Ben Alligin
Lliatach
An Teallach all in the NW

Aonach Eagach, Curved Ridge in Glencoe

Loads of other stuff to go at which I'm sure folks could recommend.
 Alex Slipchuk 18 Sep 2014
In reply to ijsbeer:

Just ask someone to take you out, we are a friendly lot
abseil 18 Sep 2014
In reply to Alex Slipchuk:

> Just ask someone to take you out, we are a friendly lot

And you might need a passport and a visa after tomorrow. Just saying.
 jonnie3430 24 Sep 2014
In reply to nclarey:
Meh, courses aren't that great and don't leave you with a climbing partner. Find someone willing to take you out because someone took them out to start is my suggestion. Courses are pushed because it keeps instructors paid.
Post edited at 16:54
 Jasonic 02 Oct 2014
In reply to jonnie3430:

Classic ridges are a great idea, as less conditions dependent. February half term can be really busy- which might make it better for finding a partner but means many routes are busier.

 Simon4 02 Oct 2014
In reply to ijsbeer:

It is important to know just how weather and conditions dependent Scottish Winter climbing is. Obviously all mountains and mountain routes are influenced by the weather but you will be amazed by the extent to which this is true in Scotland. When it is good, it is very, very good, but when it is bad (which is most of the time!), it can be horrid. But horrid or not, British Winter climbers will still go out - Winter climbing in bad (but hopefully not too dangerous), conditions is normal for the UK.

When you climb in Scotland, it is the full mountain experience that you tend to look for - where you walk up 1000 vertical m for 2.5 pitches of slush, it has to be. It is seldom like continental roadside ice, not least because most of the time, the wind is tearing at you continually. The power and ferocity of the wind in Scotland can be stunning.

Navigation, normally without the benefit of visibility, is critical, on the other hand there are no glaciers with crevasses to fall in or seracs to wander over. GPS may well help with this, others can inform you better about that than me, but having a clear sense of the terrain from the map before you start is very important - just holding a map in a Cairngorm blizzard is a serious challenge, let alone trying to read it.

With regard to routes, Alpine PD will probably equate in technicality to one of the easier ridge traverses in Scotland, say Castle ridge on Ben Nevis or the Carn Mor Dearg arette on the same mountain. I would say that the very popular Aonach Eagach in Glencoe is probably harder, more like alpine AD. You will also need to remember that there is very little fixed gear in UK Winter routes, so you will need to carry and know how to use things like slings, nuts and other self-placed and self-removed protection. Ice screws will sometimes be useful, but a lot less than you might think, UK climbers always tend to preferentially use rock gear if they can, as the ice is seldom good enough to hold a dependable screw.

Finally, as others have hinted, do not become too obsessed with Ben Nevis. I once spent a Winter climbing with a Spaniard, coming from Edinburgh, we had an excellent season but the one time we went to Ben Nevis, he met a group of 4 Spaniards on the summit. They were loudly denouncing (in voluble Spanish), Scottish Winter climbing as being a hoax and a fraud, because they had only heard of Nevis and had tried to climb there in totally unsuitable conditions. Nothing he could say about our excellent Winter could convince them, but we had picked where and when to go very carefully, considering different weather across the areas and aspects.

Conditions can vary an astonishing amount across the fairly small horizontal interval between Western and Eastern Scotland, so the Cairngorms or Creag Meagaidh can be excellent while Glencoe or Ben Nevis can be dripping. On the other hand, the East is notorious for its violent tempests. Unfortunately you have to accept that Scotland can be superb one week (or even day!), and dreadful the next. So if you pick a week, you may get lucky and rave about it forever, or you may vow never to be seen darkening Scottish shores ever again.
 JohnnyW 02 Oct 2014
In reply to Simon4:

Excellent summary of our climbing!

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