UKC

Ok, bear with me on this one as I am doing some research.

What would you say the Font grades for these routes are:

The Chant HVS
20 ft Crack S
Wednesday Climb HVS
Mutiny Crack HS
Evening Wall E1
Black Slab VS
The Sentinel E2
The Irrepressible Urge E1
Long Tall Sally E1
Rose Flake VS
Right Fin HVS



And what trad grade did All Quiet on the Eastern Front used to get, E1 6a ?

Cheers

In reply to Urgles:

Probably a good start;
http://peakbouldering.info/areas/1-eastern-grit/crags/7-burbage-north#.Vl3T...

In reply to Urgles:

The Sentinel might just get Font 6A, so the rest of them are around Font 4-5+.
Not sure what you're using the results for but French grades could be more useful.

In reply to deacondeacon:



Interesting, i was under the impression that Brit 5b = f5 roughly

In reply to Urgles:

It usually is, and perhaps the Sentinel is easier than F6A. I'm jus going from memory and it was a few years ago now that I did it.

In reply to Urgles:

Surely font grades are for boulder problems


The Chant HVS
f4

20 ft Crack S
f2+

Wednesday Climb HVS
It's a route

Mutiny Crack HS
It's a (very good) route

Evening Wall E1
It's a route

Black Slab VS
It's a route

The Sentinel E2
It's a route

The Irrepressible Urge E1
Borderline but how about a tough f5

Long Tall Sally E1
It's a route

Rose Flake VS
It's a route

Right Fin HVS
It's a route

In reply to Doug Kerr:

No imagination then?

You have heard of highballing?

In reply to Urgles:



Font 5
Font 4
Font 5
Font 4
Font 5 or maybe 4+
Font 3
Not done it.
Font 5+
Font 5+
Font 4
Font 4+
Yes.

In reply to Urgles:

from this guide: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/book.php?id=960the ones that are listed are:

In reply to Urgles:

Of course not and definitely no sense of humour either. We just used to solo, normally above a wet beer towel.
Mutiny Crack is one of the best HS's routes I've done on Peak grit, please don't tell me you think it's a boulder problem.

In reply to Urgles:

Easier just to swap the tech and font grades and imagine the route is shorter than it is

But what's the point?!

In reply to Doug Kerr:

Just trying to get the feel of grading relatively easy boulder problems.

Every grading table I look at seems completely different.

Theres Burbagesque micro routes down here that will prob get done with pads.

In reply to Bulls Crack:



I wonder what the font grade for Salathe Wall is these days?

In reply to Goucho:

Sitting start?

In reply to lowersharpnose:


With mats?

In reply to Goucho:


Is that highball?

In reply to Urgles:


Only with 16 mats.

In reply to Goucho:

placed horizontally or vertically?

In reply to Urgles:
You are not going mad. Despite all the hot air about Font grades being the best thing for lower grade problems they are neither well understood nor consistently applied. A font 4 at Font would often be f6a in the UK and might be as hard as a f6C unless its a jamming crack when it would often be f3 (like the one at Diplodocus). The YMC and VG both used a rough conversion of 4a to f3; 4b to f3+ 4c to f4, 5a to f4+ and 5b to f5 (but both are using grit grades and UK tech might be softer elsewhere).

Lakeswinter is close to my view on reasonably sensible UK font grades and plenty of these Burbage North routes would be standard non highballs at Font (including Wednesday Climb)

In reply to Offwidth:

Thanks.

In reply to LakesWinter:

Thanks

In reply to Urgles:

I interpret this to mean technical difficulty in Font grades, which I guess could account for sustainedness but not scariness. In the books, I think the Font grades are pretty bonkers if compared to Font grades in, you know, Font.


Bit of a trick move, not hard. Maybe 4?


2? or 3 due to polish?


4+


3


4+


2? But really irrelevant!


Again, really irrelevant, wouldn't know without soloing it, and even then...


4+


No idea again, nothing like bouldering



4


Yup, and the right grade too I think.

In reply to Jon Stewart:
Interesting...almost 2 grades lower than LakesWinter.

So are you saying that if Long Tall Sally and The Sentinel were 7m with good landings and had no gear and were only ever climbed as highballs you would still give them trad grades?

In reply to Urgles:


I just don't have sufficient imagination to turn them into completely different routes, climb them in my head and assign a grade. How do you fit 10m of climbing into 7m of rock?

In reply to Jon Stewart:

The same as how you did with all the others?

In reply to Urgles:

All the others I've soloed loads of times (usually because they have no gear) and *are* about 6 or 7m!

In reply to Jon Stewart:

They all have gear apart from Irrepressible Urge.

In reply to Urgles:

Yes, I suppose they do. But not in my mind because I always solo'em!

In reply to Jon Stewart:

I reckon Evening wall is a pretty serious solo. and 8m.

In reply to Urgles:

There isn't much consistency in what I see as a good solo (and so can more easily assign a Font grade) and what I see as something I've led and might lead again. Just depends on the style of climbing really - I like rounded breaks, so Evening Wall feels OK.

In reply to Jon Stewart:
Several of those routes have already get pretty standard bouldering grades and you are at least one grade too low on those compared to similar peak standards (yorkshire is a tad stiffer). The following are the VG and EG grades (with my view)

V0+ 5a; f5 (I'd say tough 4+)
V0- 4b; f4 (I'd say tough 3+)
V1 5b; f5+ (maybe tough f5 or easy f5+)
Mutiny Crack
NA; NA (very highball 4.... eases above the boulder problem start but with a scary and tough f3 move at the top)
NA; NA (highball 5)
Right Fin
V1 5b!; N/A (a route with f5 moves)


I'd add that you are a trustworthy guy on trad grades so your view on these grades shows the inadvertent sandbag possibilities in guidebook work and why judging UK tech and translating from that is a safer option when grading well below ones standard. Lets call it the Musgrove method.

In reply to Offwidth:
I think the grades offered in the books don't match the grades in the same books for lowball problems. My understanding of boulder grades is that they are technical and don't take scariness into account.

And I thought Font 5/+ was UK 5c going on 6a?

In reply to Offwidth:

This is all good stuff....exactly what I am after, thanks.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Again, this is all good stuff....exactly what I am after, thanks.

In reply to Jon Stewart:



This is why I am confused because my bouldering friend says Brit 6a roughly = Font 6A!

In reply to Goucho:


Soft 7a+ and 7c+ if you sitstart it http://bleau.info/rempart/316.html

In reply to Urgles:


We've gone through a similiar process with our guidebook work here. Grading easy boulder problems definetely presents a challenge. We settled on font grades in the end although this is far from perfect especially at the bottom end of the scale.


Agreed. Even the grades quoted on this thread for the routes you've listed vary widely between 3 or so climbers who have presumably climbed all of the routes. That's life; it's a guidebook you're producing not an instruction manual.


That must be the case with lots and lots of outcrops. We treated most things 5m or less as boulder problems (font grades) and everything else as trad. Sure it doesn't work for everything but it's a helpful/rough rule of thumb.

In reply to Doug Kerr:




Well yes I am aware of that but the bloody grades seem to vary SO much, so I am am just trying to form my idea of the grades.


Seems anything less than 10m where I am!

In reply to Urgles:


I agree with that. I think UK 6a covers the range Font 5+ (1 move) to maybe Font 6c (long). So a good problem of UK 6a climbing should be Font 6a/b. UK 5c covers Font 5 (1 move) to maybe Font 6a+ (long) or something. All gets much murkier going downwards. UK 6b is around Font 6b (1 move) to Font 7a (long). In my opinion/understanding.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Thanks.

In reply to Urgles:


Goodness. Does that include stuff that has gear and can be led?

In reply to Doug Kerr:


Seems to be a bit.

In reply to Jon Stewart:
The problem is Font (and the stick in the mud attitude to grade changes at lower grades with polish) the UK are sensibly modifying the grades back to something like they once meant so they make sense with the middle and top end stuff. f5+ is clearly standard UK 5c in the grade tables in the YMC guides, BMC guides, VG guides and Rockfax guides. Rockfax have added a slight distortion by making V1 equivalent to f5.

In reply to Offwidth:


Is that for a 1 move problem, or one with a good few moves of 5c climbing?

In reply to Jon Stewart:
Thats the exact alignment in the grade tables, so presumably for standard (relatively cruxy) problems. Sustained UK 5c problems obviously get f6a (or harder).

In reply to Doug Kerr:

Doesn't Bishop have a few 50 foot problems?

In reply to Urgles:



Where are you thinking?