UKC

Been checking out the local facilities in Brussels. The first wall I visited today, "New Rock" (A bit confusing as there's another wall in Brussels called "Terres Neuves" which means almost the same thing in French), has no lead lines at all. All top roping.

At first I thought this was surprising - but maybe it's not that unusual? Perhaps everyone just goes outside?

In reply to planetmarshall:

Pretty sure there's very little climbing around Brussels so not many climbers either, makes sense that not many climbers would be leaders there. Having said that in Sydney the walls had very little lead climbing either, mostly top roping which I thought was weird, dunno if that was an insurance thing or wall owner paranoia.

My brother in law lives there and I think said there's one crag near Brussels then you need an hours drive or so for the next one.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Not heard of that in the UK other than specialist walls geared towards taster sessions e.g. Scout walls.

In reply to Matt Vigg:

The Ardennes isn't that far from Brussels, and that logic doesn't necessarily follow. I used to live in East Anglia. No crags for at least 2-3hrs drive in any direction. Plenty of strong, psyched lead climbers!

Chris

In reply to ChrisBrooke:

Freyr about hour and a half according to google. Major crag

In reply to planetmarshall:

We went to a wall in Toulouse which was the same, and the grades were well hard too! They had some lines with horizontal starts were you had to use a special tool to pre-clip the TR into the ceiling draws before you set off. The locals had this down to a fine art and made it look very simple to do. We had a massive struggle and ended up with the gizmo stuck in the draw, much to our embarrassment!

In reply to Bulls Crack:

I climbed at Freyr and several other Ardennes crags when I lived in Holland. A bit of a drive, but not much worse than Colchester to Hathersage

In reply to planetmarshall:

I think all walls in Belgium are top rope only, with the exception of the World Cup wall in Puurs. It is just the way they do things there!

In reply to planetmarshall:

Sidenote - but wouldn't "Terres Neuves" be "New Earth" / "New Ground"?

In reply to planetmarshall:

The wall I used to go to in Louvain-la-Neuve certianly had plenty of lead routes. There's also a decent amount of sports climbing in that area so once you're out of the city and heading south you'll find a pretty decent climbing community.

In reply to Graeme Alderson:
Wasn't the Foundry top-rope only back in the early 90's Graeme? When did indoor leading in the UK actually begin? (Was it normal anywhere else in the world by then, or was it actually pioneered here?)

In reply to Durbs:

Hence the qualifier "almost the same thing in French"

In reply to planetmarshall:

Good point, well made

In reply to deepsoup:

Foundry was top-rope only for at least the first couple of years wasn't it ? Then allowed only on the main wall when quiet (and "quite good" as someone scribbled on the notice!). Was that before the furnace ?

As to the original question, maybe top-roping doesn't have the same stigma in other countries as it does here ? I feel we are conditioned to think it doesn't count if we top rope, but maybe it isn't particularly logical.

In reply to Chris the Tall:

I think it is logical, it's harder to lead - assuming when top roping there's nothing to unclip as you go. I'm guessing in a lot of these examples it's about insurance, this was (is?) always a big problem for walls due to cost, especially back when the only people coming through the doors were scumbag climbers who didn't spend any money on coffee and cake.

In reply to Chris the Tall:

I always thought 'leading' was more the norm on harder routes because toproping was awkward on overhanging walls - e.g., you play skittles with people on the floor. Surely, you don't have to 'unclip on the way up and re-clip on the way down'?

In reply to deepsoup:

I couldn't remember if it was all TR originally but maybe you are correct.

Guess which country was the first in Europe to have commercial high walls and guess which country Paul Reeve and Jim Kelly toured. Yep, Belgium is the answer to both questions. Coincidence, I doubt it.

In reply to Marek:

Now you mention it, I do remember the fun and games when having to re-clip routes on the main wall at the foundry. Skittles indeed.

In reply to Chris the Tall:

Yes, well before the Furnace opened up I think. Also before the windows & false ceiling above the Wave, when you could still reach over from the top of a boulder problem and nick somebody's chips.

In reply to Marek:

If the Foundry wasn't quite *all* top rope back then, it certainly mostly was. Re-clipping on the way back down was often a bit of a challenge. All perfectly normal in the UK a mere 20 (oh God, make that 25) years ago.

Leading really does make a lot more sense on the steeper bits doesn't it, seems obvious now. (At least beyond the first couple of clips, bearing in mind in the Foundry's case this was also before rubber-crumb flooring took away some of the ankle-snapping hardness of the concrete beneath.)