UKC

A guide cant control the weather. So if he calls off the day out due to weather conditions, should he refund you the days pay? He may be playing it too safe, they can turn the party around but other parties may go ahead and have a great day out. Then again its their living, they have put aside a day for you and weather or no weather they are there at 8am in the park with you and assessing the weather. plan alternative activity's a day at the climbing wall perhaps?

How about alpine routes, eg, matterhorn, pre booked a month in advance, the weekend comes and the guide wont even go up to the Hut as forecast for next day is horrendous, refund? lost money?

thoughts? opinions?

In reply to marzi:

Presumably whatever contract you have will state what happens?

Since you are in part paying for judgement of conditions, I don't think you could complain that others made different judgements in marginal cases..

In reply to marzi:

The real skill of a guide, and what you are partly paying for, is to provide an activity which suits the weather. Booking the Matterhorn, if that's all you are interested in, is risky. Booking a guide for a time scale, and saying the Matterhorn is your preference, should work fine. The guide has to earn a living, so he can't give you your money back. I remember a past client saying when I asked what they wanted to climb - you choose; that's what I'm paying you for. Great!

In reply to marzi:

I suppose it depends where it happens. Hopefully there are some good alternatives. I have twice had a guide booked to climb Grand Capucin, but both times the forecast was terrible so once we drove to Italy and did 3 days of sport climbing around Finale Ligure instead, and the other time we did some sweet rock routes in Switzerland. I had a great time.
One day I'll climb Grand Capucin!

In reply to marzi:

I suppose the other point of view is that as you say he cant control the weather and his livelihood depends on clients paying him. In the uk there would always be another alternative, even if its a day improving your navigation skills at which point horrendous weather can be the perfect time to teach it.
re alpine routes as said above ive even had a guide travel to a different country when the conditions didn't suit in one place.

I was in situation when it was a no go. Guide did not took any money for that day.

Happened in Romanian Carpathians with a local guide on alpine climbing. First two days were a blast, but last third day was bad, so he advised not to go up. Myself and my partner went to ski resort not far and he was probably drinking somewhere.

About 5 years ago I was in Scotland and hired a local guide for a week of introduction to Scottish Mountaineering. Few days were so crap that I was seriously doubting guides common sense about going out at all. To this day I think he was desperate for cash. But hey, I am from continent and stay in when it's raining

In reply to marzi:

I can only suggest discussing it with the guide before you commit to anything. Most the stuff I've done with a guide has been week long ski-touring trips where there's pretty much always something you can do and we wouldn't want to cancel as it would mean we end up doing nothing. It's obviously a bit different if you have a specific objective in mind. I wouldn't expect to have to pay the guide if ended up doing nothing but you'd need to have discussion about what alternatives you would be happy with. As said before, guides obviously need to earn a living but on the other hand I'd expect them to understand there will be some times they can't work due to illness / conditions and price their services accordingly.

I've done a few sea kayaking weekends with a coach who gives people the option to postpone if the weather is bad. That's more than he is required to do by the t's & c's but he finds it is worth it for the goodwill it generates.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:


If it rains my agricultural contractor doesn't charge me for not mowing my grass

In reply to nutme:

It sounds like you had a perfectly normal few days of Scottish winter😀

In reply to timjones:


He probably has several jobs on the go, so can gainfully do something else.

In reply to nutme:

Yep, that sounds like Scotland to me. A guide that can't handle the heavy stuff in Scotland would be a poor guide in every way. Plus he probably walked the route so regularly I doubt he ever even glanced at the map, so you were perfectly safe. Enjoying Scotland in weather like that is an acquired taste - something my wife loves and I hate. If you'd had a barmy week of wall to wall sunshine it wouldn't have been Scottish mountaineering.

In reply to marzi:

as a self employed carpenter, if the odd time i am on day work for people (rare, much prefer price work), im working outside and it rains and i go home and dont work i obviously dont/cant charge the client. If i stay and go indoors to work or can work in and out of showers they get charged.

i think this is just a simple case of right and wrong. if ive got a guide or instructor and they call the day off for the weather i certainly wouldn't want to be paying them to have a day off chilling. if they decide we can work on nav, scramble, indoor wall ect ect then i have used their services and they get paid.

im pretty sure this is how most people would operate.. in my experience it has been. as already said, just discuss before hand and nobody gets upset

In reply to Andy Nisbet:


My point was that there are other, fairer ways of covering the cost of days when the weather stops play.

Diversification is certainly one of them, factoring some down days into the charging structure so that all customers share the cost of any days that are written off is another.

In reply to elliott92:

In all the time I was guiding/instructing, I never called off a day and charged the client(s). Once I was injured during the day and offered the money back, but it was declined. I suspect it's the same for all British guides in Britain. If the conditions were unsuitable and there were no other options (we were committed), I would make the point of setting off until the client saw that it wasn't worth carrying on. I can admit that because I'm retired now. So it's possible the initial thread may not really happen.