UKC

What is the best way to equalise uneven anchor bolts on a sports climb after leading to set up a top rope?

Usually I would place two draws back to back to set up a top rope however I have been finding on routes with uneven finishing bolts one draw is loaded and the other slack. I've resolved this by using quick draws of different lengths which seems to equalise it fairly well but would prefer a different method. Would it be possible to put a sling through each draw and equalise it with a double figure 8 onto a crab. Or should I set up an anchor with this method from climbing? http://www.climbing.com/skills/bolted-toprope-anchors/

What are peoples thoughts?

Thanks

In reply to Max Eckert:

You don't need to equalize them since one bolt is more than sufficiently strong. The second bolt is just a back up for additional safety.

If you think about it when you lead a sport route much of the time you're relying on just one bolt. And the forces of a lead fall are far greater than top roping or lowering.

In reply to stp:

Well you're only relying on one bolt until the second bolt if your leading.

In reply to Max Eckert:

Not much need to equalise, but you can if you like.
Obviously Just don't put the top rope through the bolts.

In reply to Max Eckert:

Personally I'd most times be happy with a draw on each bolt even if one is slack.

If you're not happy with that a knotted sling and 3 krabs is very simple but there are other options.
Jk

In reply to Removed User:


Not at all. With rope stretch and other sources of movement or slack you probably need to be up to at least the third or fourth bolt before more than the top one will stop you hitting the ground.

In reply to harold walmsley:


And this is much more apparent in france. Shivers*

In reply to Max Eckert:

I carry a screw gate and use that backed up with a quickdraw of appropriate length
(into bolt or screwgate depending), ideally with a tiny bit of slack, usually have a sling draw for max flexibility.

I use this at top of all routes if other people going to lead, then only 1 person rethreads when all have done.

In reply to Max Eckert:

I carry 120cm sling draws, clip a crab each, tie a figure eight and clip a clove hitch to the lead rope; independent and equalised. The sling draws (I usually carry 2x 120cm 6mm ones on multipitch routes,) do off route bolts, threads, prussics and give back up for dramas too.

In reply to Max Eckert:
You criucially haven't said WHY you want to rig a top rope or WHO will be top roping or HOW MANY times it will be climbed, or HOW OFTEN you will be doing it.

The 'best' way varies depending on the situation.

With competent, experienced climbers who are only going to climb the route once or a handful of times, just use a couple of quickdraws and (as others have said) stop worrying about the second draw being loose.

With novice climbers or where the route will be top roped numerous times, the option you linked to (knotted sling and four screwgates) is probably much better. If it's going to be a regular occurrence, perhaps better still if you have a pair of steel screwgates for your ropes krabs as they'll last longer.

However, things also depend to some extent on the type of bolts and exact anchor set-up.

Where you have a nice anchor set with two bolts properly linked with a chain and a ring, back to back screwgates will often fit on the ring and offer a secure and simple option.

With two separate expansion bolts with hangers and rings, a screwgate on each ring often works great. In most cases the screwgates will be in a nice orientation (perpendicular to the rockface rather than lying flat) allowing the rope to runs smoothly and provided that is the case exact equalisation is not an issue. However with (Portland style) 6mm U staples using just a single screwgate on each often results in drag, rubbing or twisting of the rope or krabs that can move around. In that case (or any situation you aren't completely happy with how the two krabs are sitting) equalisation with a sling resolves any issues.

A final option, if you're using the same route on multiple occasions, is obviously to upgrade the existing anchor (assuming it isn't already suitable for intensive use) so you can just top rope directly from it. For example I've got a selection of high strength, stainless maillons, krabs and rings that I could easily use for that purpose.

In reply to Max17:
If you think the bolts of the lower of are so poor you need to equalise them (which is never possible btw), you should not even be thinking of using them as a top roping anchor.

In reply to Max17:


If you are over-thinking like this then re-thread the lower-off before beginning top-roping would be the safest solution...

In reply to scott titt:


No

In reply to petellis:


Are you trolling? I can't quite tell. In case you're not .... top roping on the rings/staples is very much not the done thing.

In reply to petellis:

Bad practice with regards to wearing out fixed gear, and will also make your rope kink.

If you're not happy with 2 quickdraws, just carry a 120cm sling, two snap-links and a screwgate. Equalise the sling off the bolts and tie a fig of 8. Job done.

In reply to Max17:

I've resolved this by using quick draws of different lengths which seems to equalise it fairly well but would prefer a different method.

Why would you prefer a different method? Most of the time that works fine.

BTW many climbers take the trouble to arrange the draws with left gate facing left and the right facing right, although how much extra safety that confers is debatable.

In reply to Max17:

The only time I could see this being really useful is if you have a loweroff without a chain. If you have a pair of nice smooth staples I'd thread them with a sling and tie off a master point if you've got bolts and hangers you should use crabs on the hangers as they could be sharp. In reality the bolts should be strong enough individually and it's not necessary to share the load between two so if you just have a second draw clipped in as a backup that's fine even if it's not taking the load.

In reply to Max17:
Quickdraw and a screwgate on the lower.

In reply to Hephaestus:


If anchors are offset, it also doesn't achieve what the OP thought they wanted which was to equalise the load on the bolts.

In reply to Removed User:


Depends very much on the bolt spacing of each route but I think a lot of routes it will be much more than that. Once you allow for slack in the system, rope stretch and dynamic belaying you'll rarely have more than one bolt between you and the deck until the fourth bolt or higher.