UKC

Right, I have done several scrambles in Snowdonia in both summer and winter conditions. I have also done plenty of climbing and have enough experience with trad that I feel confident placing protection. I am looking at moving on to grade 3 and hoping to do Pinnacle Ridge (conditions dependant) I have no experience of grade 3 scrambles but some lower grade stuff. My navigation is good and I can climb trad. I have looked at the route and photos online and think I would be fine with it but obviously it's very different when you're actually out there. Just wondering whether people think I would be alright. I feel confident with my abilities but confidence can be misplaced

In reply to todonoghue:
Have a go, but as you've said, you are confident now, that often goes on the way in, at the base, or at leg breaking height and above. Because of this, always remember that you can turn round at any point and back off, just go somewhere else instead and put it down to experience, which is what most people have bucket loads of who are doing these things smoothly and simply every day.

In order to get that experience they have been lucky, or just had a go.

Enjoy, the first steps are some of the best!

Edit: stickies make a great backup, even if you want to do it in big boots.

In reply to todonoghue:

It sounds like you'd be fine giving it a go, if you've already got some trad experience.

There are some different techniques to speed things up, over just pitching stuff like a normal rock climbing.

If in doubt many people run advanced scrambling courses, like me...! http://www.jbmountainskills.co.uk

In reply to jezb1:

To be honest with you mate, I'd love to do a course in climbing/scrambling/mountaineering but I currently have £1.43 in the bank so unless you're prepared to offer a whopping discount...

In reply to todonoghue:

Pinnacle ridge is probably a good choice for your first grade3 the grade 3 bit is not that exposed up a stepped groove above a good ledge. Some of the Welsh ones are serious Craig Lloer spur given 2/3 would be 3S in the Lakes (a short crack needing jamming technique and a full on irreversible mantleshelf complete with lots of exposure - one of only a few I've been glad of a rope and a runner). Low Water Beck is a cracker with the sun creating rainbows when you get inside, there is a step up move with nothing for your hands and an exciting step across the top of the waterfall. A finish up the grade 2 on Brim Fell and perhaps starting with The Bell (Grade 1) gives one of the best days scrambling in the Lakes.

In reply to todonoghue:

That would be quite a discount!

With your trad skills, you'll just be looking at a few extra skills that'll make you more efficient, such as direct belaying and taking coils to move together on the easy bits.

Enjoy it though, scrambling is an ace way to cover a lot of ground, and the skills learn't doing this are really applicable to Alpine stuff if that's something that interests you.

In reply to jezb1:

My rope handling and placements aren't fast or efficient but at least they're functional

In reply to jonnie3430:

Stickies sound like a good idea, I have a very old pair of Scarpa mantas that are quite clunky and I may be grateful for something a little more delicate

In reply to jezb1:

Yeah, there are plans for some easy alpine routes on the far horizon. This grade 3 idea was just to get our ropework up to scratch

In reply to todo1998:

Pinacle Ridge is a good choice. The hardest thing will be finding it in the first place! Depending on your comfort with a bit of technical difficulty (the corner bit) or exposure (stepped slabs / down the back of the pinnacle) you can adapt your technique to fit. A great place to practice the Alpine techniques if you do rope up; there are loads of options for natural belays and it's classic ground for moving together on. Also, in the exposure stakes, it's actually very mild compared to a lot of other big ridges in the Lakes and further afield, but there's enough there to make you think if you're not a fan!

In reply to todo1998:
No one really likes to say "yes you'll be fine", because we can't know, as we don't know you or your abilities. E.g. you say you can place gear, and maybe your gear is great, but maybe your gear is crap.

Disclaimer aside, Pinnacle Ridge is great fun and not too tricky; it's mostly just exposed - which is the joy of it! The crux, however, is a short bit of Diff climbing (maybe it can be avoided? Does anyone know? I don't remember). Go with someone of equal or more experience and take a 25m-35m rope and a very small rack (e.g. middle 6 nuts, slings and a couple of hexes or cams); if the exposure gets to you or your friend, you can then pitch. I think most fairly fit, outdoorsy and level headed people, given decent conditions, could happily work their way up the ridge unroped excepting the crux and possibly the awkward step down off the pinnacles.

I really don't think you'll need climbing shoes, but if you're less confident, wait for good conditions: dry rock and fingers that aren't going numb can be reassuring.

One good thing about Pinnacle Ridge is that it's not too tricky to work out the route (once you find it amongst the mass of scree and broken rock)! Apart from bad weather, I think one of the biggest dangers with scrambling is often that of getting off route and getting onto harder ground. It's important not to be too stubborn/foolhardy to retreat or avoid difficulties when necessary. Even if you're pitching, if you fall you might well do yourself some damage; it's really best to not fall - even if that means avoiding a bit of rock that "looks fun" and seems to *almost* match the guide description.

I think it's also a good idea to keep your group small and avoid taking multiple or much less-experienced people up until you're more confident. It's tempting to go up in a nice group, but if several people want a rope you're suddenly doing odd things like trying to throw a rope around a corner and hoping they can remember your instructions about tying in...

Good luck! I went up in December 2015 and thought it was fantastic. Afterward, you can walk over the tops down to Ambleside for a nice long day out.

In reply to todo1998:

The problem with grade 3 is that it is much more open ended than grades 1 and 2, particularly if you are using the guidebook I think you are. The togher grade 3 scrambles are a lot more serious than the easiest ones.

As others have said, Cneifion Arete is a good shout. The start is polished and awkward but if you can do that the rest of the ridge should be fine.

I am a big fan of the Clogwyn Y Pearson Arete. It's worth taking a mate, a rope and a few nuts + slings if you aren't sure about it but if you climb it shouldn't be too bad. The gully start is awkward but safe. The Parsons Nose is easy but loose and poorly protected. I suggest the gully.

Don't even think about Bilberry Terrace without a week of drought, a set of nuts and a rope.

And finally, "This thoroughly nasty scramble..." is something I have looked at and will not climb.

In reply to davidbeynon:

I've never noticed loose rock on direct start to Parson's Nose is that new? Otherwise fully agree with what you say.

Someone talked about stickies... I'd avoid them on scrambles you rarely need to smear or technically edge on a scramble. What you do often need is decent grip on your boots / shoes to keep from slipping on wet veg and something for dealing with scree. Solid approach shoes can be a good compromise in drier conditions but stiffer boots are often best.

For the OP everyone experienced knows Pinnacle Ridge is grade II really (if a bit technical at the short crux... which is Mod not Diff) but the rock is solid and its great fun (if you can find it) so take the tick.

In reply to Offwidth:

I might not have followed the accepted line, but I remember taking the slab more or less direct and encountering lots of reasonable looking but wobbly flakes on the way.

In reply to todo1998:
Many of us were on grade 3 before we touched climbing. Only you can know if you are ready.

In reply to Offwidth:


... and for wedging hard in the offwidth-come-chimney-come-whatever-big-crack-things that seem to inhabit scrambles. Much easier in boots - it doesn't hurt the toes!

In reply to todo1998:

The crux on PR is short lived, it's just a crack corner with good holds & readily takes gear, then the short down climb after the pinnacle is probably worth leaving the rope on for too !
Me & my mate did it again in November with just a touch of snow / ice on route in places, not worth crampons / axe but roped up for the corner & pinnacle to be on the safe side.
I've linked up the short film i made of the day, which may also help with the approach, which is, in my opinion, vague.

youtube.com/watch?v=k2vACVXBW20&

Have a good one whatever you get on.

In reply to James Jackson:

Was going to say that and deleted it.. I stll prefer approach shoes unless the crack is very wide/wet. I find climbing a lot less risky than damp grade III stuff.

In reply to todo1998:

Top end grade two, then do easy grade 3.

In reply to todo1998:

Doing lots of trad climbing helped me get from grade 2 to grade 3. I found I was better at judging and doing the harder moves. If you've already done some trad it will stand you in good stead. I would suggest taking a short 30m skinny single rope and a v small selection of nuts/hexes/poss 1 friend,2-3 slings and 3-4 extendable quickdraws to protect you on any crux pitches. Its possible to solo them and its also possible to get yourself into a scary irreverible position so to begin with why not take a bit of gear. Try not to pitch the whole route though otherwise you'll be there forever. Like Jez says above learning direct belaying and moving together using coils can speed up the whole process, and are invaluable skills when you do progress to alpine stuff. Grade 3 scrambles can vary: some like Pinnacle ridge have one short grade 3 section (as mentioned above), others like Cnefion Arete on Tryfan, or Chasm Route and Sharks Buttress have more sustained serious and exposed sections which I'd class as Diff grade. Try and get a feel for what the route is going to be like beforehand: Read the guidebook description carefully and see if there are any comments on the UKC/UKH logbooks about tricky bits. Above all have fun, there are some fantastic British scrambles and its nice to have a day when you're going light and not lugging around a massive sack full of rock gear.

In reply to todo1998:

Impossible to say without knowing you.

But my experience - easy scrambling led to harder scrambling led to grade 4 and 5 (as per Andrew Dempster's old Scottish book - corresponding roughly to 3S and a little harder). At which point I decided things were getting a bit serious and I ought to learned some basic rope work etc! So went on a climbing course, got hooked, and spent the next 3 or 4 years climbing with hardly any scrambling.

So you have much more technical experience than I did at the time, and if you take rope and small rack will be far safer than I ever was. Pinnacle Ridge (assuming you man the one on St Sunday Crag) - i still reckon this is more like grade 2 than 3, though most disagree so I'm probably wrong! But the difficulties are short lived and I think easy to protect.

On the other hand, a lot of scrambling is about confidence - if you dither then things sometimes feel a lot harder and less secure - so without knowing you, the above advice may all be nonsense

In reply to Offwidth:


We did about half of it at the end of last year, before backing off (we were soloing and it was so cold we couldn't feel our fingers). And there was definitely one spike that moved - enough to be worrying, but not enough to stop me using it as a foot hold. The area above looked like it had the potential for loose rock, but not having been there I can't say

In reply to todo1998:

I think the other factor is who you are with - or if you are going solo.

If I'm on my own my acceptable risk level drops like a trundled boulder.

If I'm enjoying a fine day with good competent sensible friends we are all much happier about stretching ourselves.

Have fun

b

In reply to todo1998:

Try some Grade 3 scrambles in the Lake District first. As a rule the Grade 3's in the Lakes are a bit more amenable than their Snowdonia counterparts. I would suggest routes like Low Water Beck, West Ridge on Pike Of Stickle and Central Buttress on Browncove Crags to ease you into the delightful world of Grade 3 scrambling.