This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Morning,
I spent 4 hours attempting to get into my car yesterday morning after locking my keys inside when I got to work. Nightmare.
After a lot of quick learning and research I managed to retrieve them OK without breaking anything.
After the stress and the struggle of this event I decided to buy myself a 9 piece lockout set for any future problems. I also decided to buy myself a 15 piece lock picking set and practice locks.
My question is has anyone got either of these and have you had any success with them.
I'm tempted to become a new super criminal .
I spent 4 hours attempting to get into my car yesterday morning after locking my keys inside when I got to work. Nightmare.
After a lot of quick learning and research I managed to retrieve them OK without breaking anything.
After the stress and the struggle of this event I decided to buy myself a 9 piece lockout set for any future problems. I also decided to buy myself a 15 piece lock picking set and practice locks.
My question is has anyone got either of these and have you had any success with them.
I'm tempted to become a new super criminal .
3
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Years ago I could open a car with a coat hanger, did this a few times to retrieve keys. I assumed it would be impossible to open a modern car, it's interesting that you managed it.
As far as lockout sets go, I can't see the point. What are the chances of you having it on you, outside the car, when you need it?
Years ago I could open a car with a coat hanger, did this a few times to retrieve keys. I assumed it would be impossible to open a modern car, it's interesting that you managed it.
As far as lockout sets go, I can't see the point. What are the chances of you having it on you, outside the car, when you need it?
4
1
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Yes but what if you left your lock picks in the car? Then you need another set of lock picks to get your lock picks.
You need to keep them safe, so lock them in your desk at work and then if you lose your desk key you can use your car set to get into your desk. But then what if your car key is in your desk? Maybe get a third set to get your second set out to get your car open.
Yes but what if you left your lock picks in the car? Then you need another set of lock picks to get your lock picks.
You need to keep them safe, so lock them in your desk at work and then if you lose your desk key you can use your car set to get into your desk. But then what if your car key is in your desk? Maybe get a third set to get your second set out to get your car open.
22
In reply to Hooo:
I intend to have the set at home to be called on in case of emergency. I hope never to do this again but I'd like the option of helping friends and family if they ever do it.
Bloody locksmiths wanted 50 quid just to look at it.
Plus when you know what your doing you can do it in less than 20 mins . easy money if you ask me .
TWS
> Years ago I could open a car with a coat hanger, did this a few times to retrieve keys. I assumed it would be impossible to open a modern car, it's interesting that you managed it.
> As far as lockout sets go, I can't see the point. What are the chances of you having it on you, outside the car, when you need it?
I intend to have the set at home to be called on in case of emergency. I hope never to do this again but I'd like the option of helping friends and family if they ever do it.
Bloody locksmiths wanted 50 quid just to look at it.
Plus when you know what your doing you can do it in less than 20 mins . easy money if you ask me .
TWS
In reply to marsbar:
Exactly.
My recent approach to key problems has been to lark's foot my keys onto my waist belt loop on 5mm climbing cord, long enough to put them in my pocket and to unlock my house with. It seems half of life's battle is learning which foibles keep coming back to bite you, and one of mine is losing things (annoyingly).
Exactly.
My recent approach to key problems has been to lark's foot my keys onto my waist belt loop on 5mm climbing cord, long enough to put them in my pocket and to unlock my house with. It seems half of life's battle is learning which foibles keep coming back to bite you, and one of mine is losing things (annoyingly).
Post edited at 09:17
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Are you going to carry them all the time or just leave them locked in the car?
Are you going to carry them all the time or just leave them locked in the car?
1
1
In reply to Timmd:
My keys are usually attached to me via a chain and Krab .
Unfortunately when I got out of the car I went to attach them to my belt and missed.
Funny thing is I'd had premonitions that this would happen over Christmas and stupidly ignored the warning.
"The burnt hand teaches best" - Always a good quote
> Exactly.
> My recent approach to key problems has been to lark's foot my keys onto my waist belt loop on 5mm climbing cord, long enough to put them in my pocket and to unlock my house with. It seems half of life's battle is learning which foibles keep coming back to bite you, and one of mine is losing things (annoyingly).
My keys are usually attached to me via a chain and Krab .
Unfortunately when I got out of the car I went to attach them to my belt and missed.
Funny thing is I'd had premonitions that this would happen over Christmas and stupidly ignored the warning.
"The burnt hand teaches best" - Always a good quote
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Seriously my approach as someone who has managed to lock themselves out a time or 2 is spare keys with friends or neighbours.
Seriously my approach as someone who has managed to lock themselves out a time or 2 is spare keys with friends or neighbours.
6
In reply to Wry Spudding:
See the reply above
No I'm not.
> Are you going to carry them all the time or just leave them locked in the car?
See the reply above
No I'm not.
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
I used to use a krab as my 'unlosable key ring' to attach to things, until I neglected to do that once, and had to rouse my bro and sis in law at 11pm for my spare keys, which is why I now lark's foot them.
Bloody keys, or the need to lock things.
I used to use a krab as my 'unlosable key ring' to attach to things, until I neglected to do that once, and had to rouse my bro and sis in law at 11pm for my spare keys, which is why I now lark's foot them.
Bloody keys, or the need to lock things.
Post edited at 09:37
1
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
How frequently do you get locked out of things that it's worth buying a kit? In 20 years of driving I've locked myself out of the car once. I've got trapped in electric windows more often (old shape Tigra, vicious)! Get breakdown cover. The time I got locked out I used a plastic spoon and a stick to get back in but the RAC would have been the next easiest option.
jk
How frequently do you get locked out of things that it's worth buying a kit? In 20 years of driving I've locked myself out of the car once. I've got trapped in electric windows more often (old shape Tigra, vicious)! Get breakdown cover. The time I got locked out I used a plastic spoon and a stick to get back in but the RAC would have been the next easiest option.
jk
1
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
I've never tried car locks, but have played around picking padlocks etc. Not easy to start with, but you can get the knack if you persist.
Specific 'practice locks' can be derisorily easy to pick - but are a reasonable place to start since at least you can see what you're doing.
The bad guys also have other ways to achieve the same ends.
I've never tried car locks, but have played around picking padlocks etc. Not easy to start with, but you can get the knack if you persist.
Specific 'practice locks' can be derisorily easy to pick - but are a reasonable place to start since at least you can see what you're doing.
The bad guys also have other ways to achieve the same ends.
1
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
I've noticed that most super criminals these days advertise their prescence on public forums.
I've noticed that most super criminals these days advertise their prescence on public forums.
6
In reply to jkarran:
I got given some gift vouchers for Christmas that needed using and the entire kit only cost me 8.50 for the lockout set and 12 quid for the lock piece set.
I reckon its a useful skill to have.
> How frequently do you get locked out of things that it's worth buying a kit? In 20 years of driving I've locked myself out of the car once. I've got trapped in electric windows more often (old shape Tigra, vicious)! Get breakdown cover. The time I got locked out I used a plastic spoon and a stick to get back in but the RAC would have been the next easiest option.
> jk
I got given some gift vouchers for Christmas that needed using and the entire kit only cost me 8.50 for the lockout set and 12 quid for the lock piece set.
I reckon its a useful skill to have.
1
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Same as Rob, I have a set of picks and have picked lots of padlocks (generally ones laying around or to get into a mates shed while he is faffing finding the keys). I wouldn't like to have a go at a car though, I imagine that would be much much more difficult.
If you want to learn more about lock picking have a read of:
http://www.capricorn.org/~akira/home/lockpick/mitlg-a4.pdf
It is the MIT Guide to Lock Picking.
Same as Rob, I have a set of picks and have picked lots of padlocks (generally ones laying around or to get into a mates shed while he is faffing finding the keys). I wouldn't like to have a go at a car though, I imagine that would be much much more difficult.
If you want to learn more about lock picking have a read of:
http://www.capricorn.org/~akira/home/lockpick/mitlg-a4.pdf
It is the MIT Guide to Lock Picking.
3
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
I suppose you have the name for it. Can you get a lycra suit made up with a spring onion symbol?
Picking locks isn't that great a superpower, though, unless you can do it remotely using the power of your mind alone, or something like that.
Also, have you considered just having a spare key and leaving it at home or with a friend, family member, or villainous ally?
> I'm tempted to become a new super criminal .
I suppose you have the name for it. Can you get a lycra suit made up with a spring onion symbol?
Picking locks isn't that great a superpower, though, unless you can do it remotely using the power of your mind alone, or something like that.
Also, have you considered just having a spare key and leaving it at home or with a friend, family member, or villainous ally?
5
In reply to skog:
My crime spree will bring tears to everyone's eyes
It is when there is glorious bounty awaiting my grubby little paws on the other side.
Now that wouldn't require me to learn a new skill and buy shiny new lock picking sets.
Or even start this wonderful thread.
> I suppose you have the name for it. Can you get a lycra suit made up with a spring onion symbol?
My crime spree will bring tears to everyone's eyes
> Picking locks isn't that great a superpower, though, unless you can do it remotely using the power of your mind alone, or something like that.
It is when there is glorious bounty awaiting my grubby little paws on the other side.
> Also, have you considered just having a spare key and leaving it at home or with a friend, family member, or villainous ally?
Now that wouldn't require me to learn a new skill and buy shiny new lock picking sets.
Or even start this wonderful thread.
4
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Bloody good value if you ask me.
For £50 the locksmith has to drop what he is doing, travel to you and sort the problem then travel back, on top of that there is the years of training and experience needed to do the job fast and efficiently and the tools needed as well.
Or you faffed about for 4 hours.
Customers get right on my wires sometimes.
As an example I was called out last year to a breakdown on a Saturday afternoon to a tyre fitting place.
He had a stack of customers and was desperate.
It took me 45mins to drive there, 5 mins to diagnose that a seal had gone in the unloader of his compressor, 10 mins to fit the new seal from my van stock then 15 mins hanging around to ensure it was okay and 45 mins back home.
He got a bill for £160 plus £5 for the seal and refused to pay it.
His argument was that £160 was too much to pay for 30 mins on site.
I pointed out that it was a standard call out fee for a weekend as stipulated in his contract with my company, I also pointed out that it was such a fast fix because I had the required part in my van, the reason I had it is because all my vans have 20k worth of stock in them to allow us to react fast to breakdowns and we have a 90% first time fix rate which is one of the things that won me his contract in the first place because most of my competitors turn up and have a look then go get the parts needed.
I also pointed out that we had quoted to carry out a service to the compressor 2 months earlier and he refused the service because he didn't think it warranted it at the time.
He still refused to pay so I passed it to my debt collector's who started court proceedings and he ended up paying my bill plus interest plus costs.
I did enjoy it a few months later when he phoned again about another breakdown and I politely told him where to go.
Having read all that does a £50 callout seem excessive?
> Bloody locksmiths wanted 50 quid just to look at it.
> Plus when you know what your doing you can do it in less than 20 mins . easy money if you ask me .
Bloody good value if you ask me.
For £50 the locksmith has to drop what he is doing, travel to you and sort the problem then travel back, on top of that there is the years of training and experience needed to do the job fast and efficiently and the tools needed as well.
Or you faffed about for 4 hours.
Customers get right on my wires sometimes.
As an example I was called out last year to a breakdown on a Saturday afternoon to a tyre fitting place.
He had a stack of customers and was desperate.
It took me 45mins to drive there, 5 mins to diagnose that a seal had gone in the unloader of his compressor, 10 mins to fit the new seal from my van stock then 15 mins hanging around to ensure it was okay and 45 mins back home.
He got a bill for £160 plus £5 for the seal and refused to pay it.
His argument was that £160 was too much to pay for 30 mins on site.
I pointed out that it was a standard call out fee for a weekend as stipulated in his contract with my company, I also pointed out that it was such a fast fix because I had the required part in my van, the reason I had it is because all my vans have 20k worth of stock in them to allow us to react fast to breakdowns and we have a 90% first time fix rate which is one of the things that won me his contract in the first place because most of my competitors turn up and have a look then go get the parts needed.
I also pointed out that we had quoted to carry out a service to the compressor 2 months earlier and he refused the service because he didn't think it warranted it at the time.
He still refused to pay so I passed it to my debt collector's who started court proceedings and he ended up paying my bill plus interest plus costs.
I did enjoy it a few months later when he phoned again about another breakdown and I politely told him where to go.
Having read all that does a £50 callout seem excessive?
Post edited at 10:25
28
1
In reply to Dax H:
You should have kept his custom and politely asked if he was alright with the fees. My Dad used to have a business motto of 'Why make enemies?'.
As a general motto, that is, I'm not assuming he hates you...
You should have kept his custom and politely asked if he was alright with the fees. My Dad used to have a business motto of 'Why make enemies?'.
As a general motto, that is, I'm not assuming he hates you...
Post edited at 10:38
3
7
In reply to Dax H:
Funny the one we called took 5 hours to get back to me .
I faffed about for 4 hours learning about how to do it watching videos and might I say making all my own tools and rods to use at work. As well as doing my job.
Yes, are all your call outs like that then ? I suspect not . The guy was obviously a tw@t
> Bloody good value if you ask me.
> For £50 the locksmith has to drop what he is doing, travel to you and sort the problem then travel back, on top of that there is the years of training and experience needed to do the job fast and efficiently and the tools needed as well.
Funny the one we called took 5 hours to get back to me .
> Or you faffed about for 4 hours.
I faffed about for 4 hours learning about how to do it watching videos and might I say making all my own tools and rods to use at work. As well as doing my job.
> Customers get right on my wires sometimes.
> As an example I was called out last year to a breakdown on a Saturday afternoon to a tyre fitting place.
> He had a stack of customers and was desperate.
> It took me 45mins to drive there, 5 mins to diagnose that a seal had gone in the unloader of his compressor, 10 mins to fit the new seal from my van stock then 15 mins hanging around to ensure it was okay and 45 mins back home.
> He got a bill for £160 plus £5 for the seal and refused to pay it.
> His argument was that £160 was too much to pay for 30 mins on site.
> I pointed out that it was a standard call out fee for a weekend as stipulated in his contract with my company, I also pointed out that it was such a fast fix because I had the required part in my van, the reason I had it is because all my vans have 20k worth of stock in them to allow us to react fast to breakdowns and we have a 90% first time fix rate which is one of the things that won me his contract in the first place because most of my competitors turn up and have a look then go get the parts needed.
> I also pointed out that we had quoted to carry out a service to the compressor 2 months earlier and he refused the service because he didn't think it warranted it at the time.
> He still refused to pay so I passed it to my debt collector's who started court proceedings and he ended up paying my bill plus interest plus costs.
> I did enjoy it a few months later when he phoned again about another breakdown and I politely told him where to go.
> Having read all that does a £50 callout seem excessive?
Yes, are all your call outs like that then ? I suspect not . The guy was obviously a tw@t
3
13
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Spare key gaffer taped to under body of car solves all problems if it really matters.
Or on some models of car a single jump lead, connect the battery positive direct to starter motor positive and your ignition lights should come on. Rock the car very severely or hit where motion sensor is and the computer thinks there has been a crash and pops the central locking.
Spare key gaffer taped to under body of car solves all problems if it really matters.
Or on some models of car a single jump lead, connect the battery positive direct to starter motor positive and your ignition lights should come on. Rock the car very severely or hit where motion sensor is and the computer thinks there has been a crash and pops the central locking.
In reply to summo:
On most cars, the bonnet release is inside the car, isn't it ?
> Or on some models of car a single jump lead, connect the battery positive direct to starter motor positive and your ignition lights should come on.
On most cars, the bonnet release is inside the car, isn't it ?
6
In reply to summo:
I've no central locking I'm afraid.
I heard about the method though.
Plus the bonnet release is inside the car so don't see how it helps
> Spare key gaffer taped to under body of car solves all problems if it really matters.
> Or on some models of car a single jump lead, connect the battery positive direct to starter motor positive and your ignition lights should come on. Rock the car very severely or hit where motion sensor is and the computer thinks there has been a crash and pops the central locking.
I've no central locking I'm afraid.
I heard about the method though.
Plus the bonnet release is inside the car so don't see how it helps
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
In that case they are taking the piss, the only time I called one out he was there in less than 1 hour, good value to me.
What do you think is a fair rate to charge for a call out when you have to provide 24/7 cover 365 days a year and that cover needs to be provided by highly skilled and trained service engineer's ?
> Funny the one we called took 5 hours to get back to me .
In that case they are taking the piss, the only time I called one out he was there in less than 1 hour, good value to me.
> Yes, are all your call outs like that then ?
Callouts vary from a few minutes working on site to 5 or 6 hours to go back and get a hire machine to put in if we can't fix it and anywhere in between depending in the problem. What do you think is a fair rate to charge for a call out when you have to provide 24/7 cover 365 days a year and that cover needs to be provided by highly skilled and trained service engineer's ?
1
In reply to Timmd:
Nah, I don't need customers who ignore the correct maintenance schedule then expect you to jump when things fail, add in the part about not paying and its definatly a no no.
My company policy is no tyre fitters, no double glazing manufacturers (the small independent ones), no bed factories.
Tyre fitters and bed factories never pay without a fight and double glazing places have taken me a few times by going bust on a Friday afternoon then buying the company back from the liquidators and starting again debt free on the Monday with a slight name change.
I am sure there are good examples of those three types of company out there but in 30 years of doing what I do they have always been my problem guys and it's easier not to bother in the first place.
> You should have kept his custom and politely asked if he was alright with the fees. My Dad used to have a business motto of 'Why make enemies?'.
Nah, I don't need customers who ignore the correct maintenance schedule then expect you to jump when things fail, add in the part about not paying and its definatly a no no.
My company policy is no tyre fitters, no double glazing manufacturers (the small independent ones), no bed factories.
Tyre fitters and bed factories never pay without a fight and double glazing places have taken me a few times by going bust on a Friday afternoon then buying the company back from the liquidators and starting again debt free on the Monday with a slight name change.
I am sure there are good examples of those three types of company out there but in 30 years of doing what I do they have always been my problem guys and it's easier not to bother in the first place.
4
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
You can (or used to be able to) get a credit card sized reserve key for some cars that will allow you to open the car, so you can reach the keys you locked in it. My Dad used to keep one in his wallet.
You can (or used to be able to) get a credit card sized reserve key for some cars that will allow you to open the car, so you can reach the keys you locked in it. My Dad used to keep one in his wallet.
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
I'm impressed you managed to pick the lock of a car door! What car, if you don't mind saying?
I remember years ago on the old Fiestas (late 1990s ish), you could pull off the window trim from the outside. You would use this part of the car and slide it down between the window glass and door panel and pop the lock open. No tools, and you'd be in within about 30 seconds. Add to that, you didn't even need a key to start the car! Pop the back of the wiring harness off the back of the ignition barrel and use any blunt pointy thing you wanted to turn the switch to start the car. The steering lock didn't work on my mates car, so we had great fun winding him up that it had been stolen, again.
I'm glad immobolisers and alarms work better now!
We've had keys locked in hire cars on trips abroad before. A good one was in Slovenia and the keys were locked in the boot, with all doors locked. We spoke to the hire company and they said they'd send someone out, the next day, and we'd have to pay lots. Instead we found a friendly local guy and he rang a friend. The friend turned up on a tractor with a door wedge, mallet, and a wire coat hanger. We had the drivers door open with no damage within 5 minutes, only for the cost of a slab of beer.
I'm impressed you managed to pick the lock of a car door! What car, if you don't mind saying?
I remember years ago on the old Fiestas (late 1990s ish), you could pull off the window trim from the outside. You would use this part of the car and slide it down between the window glass and door panel and pop the lock open. No tools, and you'd be in within about 30 seconds. Add to that, you didn't even need a key to start the car! Pop the back of the wiring harness off the back of the ignition barrel and use any blunt pointy thing you wanted to turn the switch to start the car. The steering lock didn't work on my mates car, so we had great fun winding him up that it had been stolen, again.
I'm glad immobolisers and alarms work better now!
We've had keys locked in hire cars on trips abroad before. A good one was in Slovenia and the keys were locked in the boot, with all doors locked. We spoke to the hire company and they said they'd send someone out, the next day, and we'd have to pay lots. Instead we found a friendly local guy and he rang a friend. The friend turned up on a tractor with a door wedge, mallet, and a wire coat hanger. We had the drivers door open with no damage within 5 minutes, only for the cost of a slab of beer.
In reply to Dax H:
Well being as I got into my car without any formal training I'd argue that for straight forward car entry you don't have to be an expert .
They guy I called lived about 2 minutes away.
I get your point though and for someone in the middle of nowhere locked out of something then 50 quid is OK. But for someone 2 mins away and with all the kit it would have been to much for me to afford. I'd have suffered 30 quid and saved myself some time (but in hindsight I'm glad I did it , as I've learnt some valuable info) .
50 quid is 2 weeks shopping for me. All for a silly mistake
> What do you think is a fair rate to charge for a call out when you have to provide 24/7 cover 365 days a year and that cover needs to be provided by highly skilled and trained service engineer's ?
Well being as I got into my car without any formal training I'd argue that for straight forward car entry you don't have to be an expert .
They guy I called lived about 2 minutes away.
I get your point though and for someone in the middle of nowhere locked out of something then 50 quid is OK. But for someone 2 mins away and with all the kit it would have been to much for me to afford. I'd have suffered 30 quid and saved myself some time (but in hindsight I'm glad I did it , as I've learnt some valuable info) .
50 quid is 2 weeks shopping for me. All for a silly mistake
In reply to Dax H:
That's fair enough!
> Nah, I don't need customers who ignore the correct maintenance schedule then expect you to jump when things fail, add in the part about not paying and its definatly a no no.
> My company policy is no tyre fitters, no double glazing manufacturers (the small independent ones), no bed factories.
> Tyre fitters and bed factories never pay without a fight and double glazing places have taken me a few times by going bust on a Friday afternoon then buying the company back from the liquidators and starting again debt free on the Monday with a slight name change.
> I am sure there are good examples of those three types of company out there but in 30 years of doing what I do they have always been my problem guys and it's easier not to bother in the first place.
> My company policy is no tyre fitters, no double glazing manufacturers (the small independent ones), no bed factories.
> Tyre fitters and bed factories never pay without a fight and double glazing places have taken me a few times by going bust on a Friday afternoon then buying the company back from the liquidators and starting again debt free on the Monday with a slight name change.
> I am sure there are good examples of those three types of company out there but in 30 years of doing what I do they have always been my problem guys and it's easier not to bother in the first place.
That's fair enough!
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Last month I locked my keys inside my car in a car (2004 Volvo) park miles from home- don't ask how but a combination of circumstances unlikely ever to recur.
I called the good old AA. They were there within 30 mins and the chap got into the car with a combination of plastic wedges inserted into the edges of the windows giving just enough room for a long piece of wire to get in and fish out the keys. It took about half an hour or so and I had to sign a disclaimer first to the effect that he might end up breaking a window (or worse- the doors may not have sprung back into their proper place I suppose).
However, all was well, no damage and keys retrieved.
Last month I locked my keys inside my car in a car (2004 Volvo) park miles from home- don't ask how but a combination of circumstances unlikely ever to recur.
I called the good old AA. They were there within 30 mins and the chap got into the car with a combination of plastic wedges inserted into the edges of the windows giving just enough room for a long piece of wire to get in and fish out the keys. It took about half an hour or so and I had to sign a disclaimer first to the effect that he might end up breaking a window (or worse- the doors may not have sprung back into their proper place I suppose).
However, all was well, no damage and keys retrieved.
2
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
What's all this stuff about needing a key to unlock a car? I just press the button in my pocket.
What's all this stuff about needing a key to unlock a car? I just press the button in my pocket.
2
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
If you've got breakdown cover they'll probably come out and do it for free.
> Bloody locksmiths wanted 50 quid just to look at it.
If you've got breakdown cover they'll probably come out and do it for free.
In reply to summo:
More cars get stolen as a result of spare keys hidden somewhere on the car body than by any other method.
> Spare key gaffer taped to under body of car solves all problems if it really matters.
More cars get stolen as a result of spare keys hidden somewhere on the car body than by any other method.
1
2
In reply to GrahamD:
Yeah, requires long arms and a knowledge of what is where under bonnet. First saw it done by AA man on my own car .
> On most cars, the bonnet release is inside the car, isn't it ?
Yeah, requires long arms and a knowledge of what is where under bonnet. First saw it done by AA man on my own car .
In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:
Is that the same as 86% of statistics are made up or actually evidence based? Not really sure how a thief would be able to find a spare key heavily taped onto something underneath.
> More cars get stolen as a result of spare keys hidden somewhere on the car body than by any other method.
Is that the same as 86% of statistics are made up or actually evidence based? Not really sure how a thief would be able to find a spare key heavily taped onto something underneath.
7
1
In reply to summo:
No not made up. They just look in the obvious places and work the percentages. In United States back in the 90's they had these magnetic key holders that fit under the wheel arch. They were very popular but also responsible for more stolen cars than anything else.
I'm not sure taping a key under the car would work that well. Heat from the engine or exhaust system would weaken the adhesive of the tape as would surface water splashed up from the road. You might find the spare key gone at the end of your journey.
> Is that the same as 86% of statistics are made up or actually evidence based? Not really sure how a thief would be able to find a spare key heavily taped onto something underneath.
No not made up. They just look in the obvious places and work the percentages. In United States back in the 90's they had these magnetic key holders that fit under the wheel arch. They were very popular but also responsible for more stolen cars than anything else.
I'm not sure taping a key under the car would work that well. Heat from the engine or exhaust system would weaken the adhesive of the tape as would surface water splashed up from the road. You might find the spare key gone at the end of your journey.
2
1
In reply to GrahamD:
I managed to get under the bonnet of my older brother's old Golf GTI using a home DIY tool and some ingenuity once, when I'd accidentally damaged something on the front of his car while he was away and his bonnet release cable wasn't engaging properly. I fixed it and closed the bonnet just as he ambled into the garage and asked what I was doing 'Just tightening up a lose bolt on the grill for you...'. I wasn't rumbled.
If you know where the bonnet catch is it's just a case of pondering how, I guess an AA man would know where to pull on the cable at the right spot? My bro's GTI was quite easy.
> On most cars, the bonnet release is inside the car, isn't it ?
I managed to get under the bonnet of my older brother's old Golf GTI using a home DIY tool and some ingenuity once, when I'd accidentally damaged something on the front of his car while he was away and his bonnet release cable wasn't engaging properly. I fixed it and closed the bonnet just as he ambled into the garage and asked what I was doing 'Just tightening up a lose bolt on the grill for you...'. I wasn't rumbled.
If you know where the bonnet catch is it's just a case of pondering how, I guess an AA man would know where to pull on the cable at the right spot? My bro's GTI was quite easy.
Post edited at 18:43
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
I have a set, and it's been used a few times. My best is a 5 pin euro lock with two security pins.
Most disappointing was a really nice abuse padlock that went in 2 minutes.
Couple of rules though:
Never pick a lock without the owner's permission.
Have play locks and working locks. You don't want to kill the locks you actually use.
Carrying a set of picks can be classed as 'going equipped'. Keep a practice (cutaway) lock with them and be prepared to talk about 'locksport' just incase the police show an interest.
If all else fails, half a brick is usually the most efficient lock pick.
I have a set, and it's been used a few times. My best is a 5 pin euro lock with two security pins.
Most disappointing was a really nice abuse padlock that went in 2 minutes.
Couple of rules though:
Never pick a lock without the owner's permission.
Have play locks and working locks. You don't want to kill the locks you actually use.
Carrying a set of picks can be classed as 'going equipped'. Keep a practice (cutaway) lock with them and be prepared to talk about 'locksport' just incase the police show an interest.
If all else fails, half a brick is usually the most efficient lock pick.
4
In reply to markAut:
You will get arrested if you're stop searched and picks are found. That's like carrying a fixed blade around in an ankle sheath with a stick in your bag and claiming you're just going to use it for whittling.
> Carrying a set of picks can be classed as 'going equipped'. Keep a practice (cutaway) lock with them and be prepared to talk about 'locksport' just incase the police show an interest.
You will get arrested if you're stop searched and picks are found. That's like carrying a fixed blade around in an ankle sheath with a stick in your bag and claiming you're just going to use it for whittling.
1
2
In reply to markAut:
I would hazard a guess that your a linux user?
There was a time when you couldn't be a proper linux admin, unless you could pick 5 pin padlock.
Its not a hard skill to learn and it's lots of fun. You can make your own picks and tension tool from road sweeper bristle, which is surprisingly easy to find if you look in the gutter. You can even make a lock pick out of an over voltage electric tooth brush.
>Carrying a set of picks can be classed as 'going equipped'.
Richard Feynman, atom bomber and Nobel laureate, picked locks and cracked safes at Los Alamos, for fun. So if anyone says anything, you can simply mention that you pick locks, as you want to build an atom bomb, like Feynman. I bet the police would soon drop the lock picking charges, if you mentioned that.
I would hazard a guess that your a linux user?
There was a time when you couldn't be a proper linux admin, unless you could pick 5 pin padlock.
Its not a hard skill to learn and it's lots of fun. You can make your own picks and tension tool from road sweeper bristle, which is surprisingly easy to find if you look in the gutter. You can even make a lock pick out of an over voltage electric tooth brush.
>Carrying a set of picks can be classed as 'going equipped'.
Richard Feynman, atom bomber and Nobel laureate, picked locks and cracked safes at Los Alamos, for fun. So if anyone says anything, you can simply mention that you pick locks, as you want to build an atom bomb, like Feynman. I bet the police would soon drop the lock picking charges, if you mentioned that.
2
In reply to dread-i:
Ha! 'Ted the Tool', and all that ...
> There was a time when you couldn't be a proper linux admin, unless you could pick 5 pin padlock.
> Its not a hard skill to learn and it's lots of fun. You can make your own picks and tension tool from road sweeper bristle ...
Ha! 'Ted the Tool', and all that ...
1
In reply to dread-i:
Yeah, you got me, I run a few Linux boxes, but am not as good an admin as I should be. Playing with locks is also a scientist/ engineer puzzle solving thing.
Always something to learn.
Yeah, you got me, I run a few Linux boxes, but am not as good an admin as I should be. Playing with locks is also a scientist/ engineer puzzle solving thing.
Always something to learn.
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Cheaper to buy a few sets of spare keys, surely?
> After the stress and the struggle of this event I decided to buy myself a 9 piece lockout set for any future problems. I also decided to buy myself a 15 piece lock picking set and practice locks.
Cheaper to buy a few sets of spare keys, surely?
1
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
But you weren't magickal enough to foresee,
or creative or scientific enough to undo getting locked out ~?
But you weren't magickal enough to foresee,
or creative or scientific enough to undo getting locked out ~?
Post edited at 23:35
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
To get into houses I usually just get my cordless out and drill out the pins, and change the barrel.
Quick easy less faff.
To get into houses I usually just get my cordless out and drill out the pins, and change the barrel.
Quick easy less faff.
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
I did once make a tool out of a drinks can to open a padlock that I had lost the key for ( not for picking the lock though)
But it is easier to just break a padlock with two long open ended spanners forcing the ends apart.( or use an angle grinder)
Quick and easy and less faff.
I did once make a tool out of a drinks can to open a padlock that I had lost the key for ( not for picking the lock though)
But it is easier to just break a padlock with two long open ended spanners forcing the ends apart.( or use an angle grinder)
Quick and easy and less faff.
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
I'm a bit of a lock picking enthusiast myself, it can be a fun thing to practice.
But car locks are usually pretty tough (unless your car is very cheap or very old). they're not impossible to crack but without prior experience, believe me, you could be at it for days.
I'm a bit of a lock picking enthusiast myself, it can be a fun thing to practice.
But car locks are usually pretty tough (unless your car is very cheap or very old). they're not impossible to crack but without prior experience, believe me, you could be at it for days.
2
In reply to RomTheBear:
Hence the lock picks for locks other than cars and the lockout kit specifically for cars.
Covering my bases
> I'm a bit of a lock picking enthusiast myself, it can be a fun thing to practice.
> But car locks are usually pretty tough (unless your car is very cheap or very old). they're not impossible to crack but without prior experience, believe me, you could be at it for days.
Hence the lock picks for locks other than cars and the lockout kit specifically for cars.
Covering my bases
In reply to Big Ger:
As I said before, where is the fun and the learning in that ?
I'll have spares cut yes but I still don't rue buying a emergency lockout kit or the picks .
And again , I'd hope not to do this again myself but be able to help out friends and relatives that might be unfortunate enough to get locked out.
Skills are good surely ?
> Cheaper to buy a few sets of spare keys, surely?
As I said before, where is the fun and the learning in that ?
I'll have spares cut yes but I still don't rue buying a emergency lockout kit or the picks .
And again , I'd hope not to do this again myself but be able to help out friends and relatives that might be unfortunate enough to get locked out.
Skills are good surely ?
1
In reply to ian caton:
It wasn't me , I haven't got mine yet
> Had the lock picked on my T4 at font. Bastards.
It wasn't me , I haven't got mine yet
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
BTW may I remind you that being caught with a lockout kit can lend you three years in jail
> Hence the lock picks for locks other than cars and the lockout kit specifically for cars.
> Covering my bases
>
BTW may I remind you that being caught with a lockout kit can lend you three years in jail
2
In reply to RomTheBear:
Wow, you get less for murder nowadays
How do the locksmiths get on then ? with a van full of "going equipped"
> BTW may I remind you that being caught with a lockout kit can lend you three years in jail
Wow, you get less for murder nowadays
How do the locksmiths get on then ? with a van full of "going equipped"
Post edited at 09:14
In reply to RomTheBear:
How do the locksmiths get on then with a van full of "going equipped"
> BTW may I remind you that being caught with a lockout kit can lend you three years in jail
How do the locksmiths get on then with a van full of "going equipped"
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Well, they are locksmiths so they they can prove there is no intent to commit burglary.
Basically if you're caught with a lockout kit, there is a presumed intent that it will be used to commit burglary, the onus is then on you to prove that there is no intent (and that may well be impossible to prove).
> How do the locksmiths get on then with a van full of "going equipped"
>
Well, they are locksmiths so they they can prove there is no intent to commit burglary.
Basically if you're caught with a lockout kit, there is a presumed intent that it will be used to commit burglary, the onus is then on you to prove that there is no intent (and that may well be impossible to prove).
Post edited at 10:47
2
In reply to RomTheBear:
How can they prove that ? it could be an elaborate hoax. Or a locksmith gone bad
I wont worry about that. very unlikely and also obvious if I'm caught trying to get into my own car
The police have better things to do that stop me getting back into my own car. Or do they ?
Thanks for the warning though
> Well, they are locksmiths so they they can prove there is no intent to commit burglary.
How can they prove that ? it could be an elaborate hoax. Or a locksmith gone bad
> Basically if you're caught with a lockout kit, there is a presumed intent that it will be used to commit burglary, the onus is then on you to prove that there is no intent (and that may well be impossible to prove).
I wont worry about that. very unlikely and also obvious if I'm caught trying to get into my own car
The police have better things to do that stop me getting back into my own car. Or do they ?
Thanks for the warning though
Post edited at 10:45
1
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Well yes it's like the knife laws they're a bit absurd. But in practice as long as you keep your kit at home you're fine.
> How can they prove that ? it could be an elaborate hoax. Or a locksmith gone bad
> I wont worry about that. very unlikely and also obvious if I'm caught trying to get into my own car
> The police have better things to do that stop me getting back into my own car. Or do they ?
> Thanks for the warning though
>
Well yes it's like the knife laws they're a bit absurd. But in practice as long as you keep your kit at home you're fine.
Post edited at 10:48
1
1
The BosniaBill vids on youtube are great for learning picking.
He also has vids on how to make training locks and a great playlist about making tool from scratch including how to select materials needed.
The guy has some serious skills and is well worth checking out imo
He also has vids on how to make training locks and a great playlist about making tool from scratch including how to select materials needed.
The guy has some serious skills and is well worth checking out imo
In reply to RomTheBear:
Nah mate. THEY have to prove there is intent. You are innocent until proven guilty.
3am, with a torch, latex gloves, lock picks and a few other choice items your sneaking about a random neighbourhood... Aye, your gonna have to explain that one.
A set Locked in your car, with a practise lock, they have to prove it. Incidentally I keep my 2 favourite picks in my wallet, just in case and I have had to help a few mates out before.
Lock picking can be a hobby. Lock sport is like trying to complete a tiny 3d puzzle, with a pair of tweezers, in a box, with a blindfold on.
There numerous places to find the information, and numerous types of skills within that skill set. Dependant on method, result, lock, quality of lock, the tools and quality of the tools. It can be quite interesting, and almost a nice way to meditate.
> Basically if you're caught with a lockout kit, there is a presumed intent that it will be used to commit burglary, the onus is then on you to prove that there is no intent (and that may well be impossible to prove).
Nah mate. THEY have to prove there is intent. You are innocent until proven guilty.
3am, with a torch, latex gloves, lock picks and a few other choice items your sneaking about a random neighbourhood... Aye, your gonna have to explain that one.
A set Locked in your car, with a practise lock, they have to prove it. Incidentally I keep my 2 favourite picks in my wallet, just in case and I have had to help a few mates out before.
Lock picking can be a hobby. Lock sport is like trying to complete a tiny 3d puzzle, with a pair of tweezers, in a box, with a blindfold on.
There numerous places to find the information, and numerous types of skills within that skill set. Dependant on method, result, lock, quality of lock, the tools and quality of the tools. It can be quite interesting, and almost a nice way to meditate.
4
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Well I got my picks and practice lock yesterday and I've brought them into work to practice today.
I've already managed to pick the practice lock 5 times now successfully .
I'm finding it quite good fun. I'm still finding the best picks for padlocks at the moment and have yet to read the MIT guide to picking . However I have printed it out for digestion later.
Happy Friday everyone
TWS
Well I got my picks and practice lock yesterday and I've brought them into work to practice today.
I've already managed to pick the practice lock 5 times now successfully .
I'm finding it quite good fun. I'm still finding the best picks for padlocks at the moment and have yet to read the MIT guide to picking . However I have printed it out for digestion later.
Happy Friday everyone
TWS
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Is it a transparent or cutaway one? Have you tried doing it without looking? Are you picking or raking? Remember that too much tension is as bad as too little.
For certain padlocks there are other ways to defeat them, try looking at shims and other skills.
Glad your enjoying it. And keep it up.
> I've already managed to pick the practice lock 5 times now successfully .
Is it a transparent or cutaway one? Have you tried doing it without looking? Are you picking or raking? Remember that too much tension is as bad as too little.
For certain padlocks there are other ways to defeat them, try looking at shims and other skills.
Glad your enjoying it. And keep it up.
2
In reply to Bootrock:
Its transparent.
After initially doing it looking I started trying without looking and I'm successful but it takes longer unless I'm really lucky.
I've decided what's best for padlocks and experimenting with the techniques of just raking and actual feeling the pins .
Both techniques work given patients.
Its an interesting mix of knowledge, patients, feel, pressure and speed.
Thanks
> Is it a transparent or cutaway one? Have you tried doing it without looking? Are you picking or raking? Remember that too much tension is as bad as too little.
Its transparent.
After initially doing it looking I started trying without looking and I'm successful but it takes longer unless I'm really lucky.
I've decided what's best for padlocks and experimenting with the techniques of just raking and actual feeling the pins .
Both techniques work given patients.
Its an interesting mix of knowledge, patients, feel, pressure and speed.
> For certain padlocks there are other ways to defeat them, try looking at shims and other skills.
> Glad your enjoying it. And keep it up.
Thanks
In reply to Bootrock:
True. I find that if you apply tension to the tension wrench and then gently bounce with your finger (relieving the tension slightly, then putting it back on) continuously whilst picking works well.
> Remember that too much tension is as bad as too little.
True. I find that if you apply tension to the tension wrench and then gently bounce with your finger (relieving the tension slightly, then putting it back on) continuously whilst picking works well.
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Buy a cutaway or make a training lock if you really get into this hobby, perspex training locks dont last long before you scrape the insides out...
I got a cracking 6 pin euro cylinder cutaway* complete with a re-pinning kit for less than £20 off a small firm on Ebay.
Great bloke to deal with imo.
You can remove and replace the pins so can start with just one and then progress all the way to a full complement and then start with security pins (i got a load of spool pins with it in my re-pin kit)
* if you search for this you will see the item im talking about
Buy a cutaway or make a training lock if you really get into this hobby, perspex training locks dont last long before you scrape the insides out...
I got a cracking 6 pin euro cylinder cutaway* complete with a re-pinning kit for less than £20 off a small firm on Ebay.
Great bloke to deal with imo.
You can remove and replace the pins so can start with just one and then progress all the way to a full complement and then start with security pins (i got a load of spool pins with it in my re-pin kit)
* if you search for this you will see the item im talking about
In reply to WildCamper:
I saw one of these sets a while back. It seems like a good buy, but never got it in the end. I might give them a bash cheers for reminding me, I like the idea of repinning them, is that the one with colour coded/coloured pins? What are the springs like in the set, get plenty of them?
I am actually surprised by the number of people interested/into this, I thought it would be a few at a push.
> I got a cracking 6 pin euro cylinder cutaway* complete with a re-pinning kit for less than £20 off a small firm on Ebay.
I saw one of these sets a while back. It seems like a good buy, but never got it in the end. I might give them a bash cheers for reminding me, I like the idea of repinning them, is that the one with colour coded/coloured pins? What are the springs like in the set, get plenty of them?
I am actually surprised by the number of people interested/into this, I thought it would be a few at a push.
1
In reply to mack:
Aye when I first started I used to just jam the tension right on and get frustrated, but the more I watched/founded out the more I saw people "bounce" the T tool.
Have you tried/seen those "feather" tension tools? They much use?
> True. I find that if you apply tension to the tension wrench and then gently bounce with your finger (relieving the tension slightly, then putting it back on) continuously whilst picking works well.
Aye when I first started I used to just jam the tension right on and get frustrated, but the more I watched/founded out the more I saw people "bounce" the T tool.
Have you tried/seen those "feather" tension tools? They much use?
In reply to Bootrock:
Yeah that's the one.
I didn't get any extra springs in the one i got - just went for the cheapest he sold to see what's what.
You can pick up bags of the springs for next to nowt though (can also make your own fairly easily).
Btw top tip, harass your local locksmith for old locks to play with, i collared mine and he was happy to give me a handful he'd removed from jobs from the back of his van.
Was a nice guy too, showed me his toys and give me some tips. All for free
Also Walker Locksmith do a free 119 page paper catalogue on their site if anyone wants some toilet time reading
Yeah that's the one.
I didn't get any extra springs in the one i got - just went for the cheapest he sold to see what's what.
You can pick up bags of the springs for next to nowt though (can also make your own fairly easily).
Btw top tip, harass your local locksmith for old locks to play with, i collared mine and he was happy to give me a handful he'd removed from jobs from the back of his van.
Was a nice guy too, showed me his toys and give me some tips. All for free
Also Walker Locksmith do a free 119 page paper catalogue on their site if anyone wants some toilet time reading
In reply to Bootrock:
I just googled the feather tension tools. They look interesting and I would definitely like to know how they handle..
I just googled the feather tension tools. They look interesting and I would definitely like to know how they handle..
In reply to mack:
I can't tell if it's over engineering, or a gimmick but it would be interesting to see how it plays.
> I just googled the feather tension tools. They look interesting and I would definitely like to know how they handle..
I can't tell if it's over engineering, or a gimmick but it would be interesting to see how it plays.
In reply to Bootrock:
Not played with one, but suspect that you lose a bit of feeling of what is going on inside the lock.
The likes of Bosnia Bill and Schuyler Towne don't seem to use them. Schuyler Town has some good videos on techniques and the history of locks.
Not played with one, but suspect that you lose a bit of feeling of what is going on inside the lock.
The likes of Bosnia Bill and Schuyler Towne don't seem to use them. Schuyler Town has some good videos on techniques and the history of locks.
1
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
Rather topically a customer has just called to tell me he locked himself out of his warehouse and had to get a locksmith who charged him £120 and took about 30 seconds to pick the lock! Nice work, where do I sign up?
Rather topically a customer has just called to tell me he locked himself out of his warehouse and had to get a locksmith who charged him £120 and took about 30 seconds to pick the lock! Nice work, where do I sign up?
1
In reply to Rigid Raider:
That's good going, I would have done it for a bottle of Rum and a roast beef sandwich.
That's good going, I would have done it for a bottle of Rum and a roast beef sandwich.
In reply to Bootrock:
I can now open the practice lock in anything from a few seconds to a couple of minutes without looking at all.
I need more locks to practice on now.
TWS
I can now open the practice lock in anything from a few seconds to a couple of minutes without looking at all.
I need more locks to practice on now.
TWS
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
As ive said earlier in the thread, go speak to your local locksmith and see if they will give you some of the ones they have removed from jobs that are keyless.
I did this the other week and got a handful
As ive said earlier in the thread, go speak to your local locksmith and see if they will give you some of the ones they have removed from jobs that are keyless.
I did this the other week and got a handful
In reply to WildCamper:
Thanks .
I missed that comment earlier on the thread.
> As ive said earlier in the thread, go speak to your local locksmith and see if they will give you some of the ones they have removed from jobs that are keyless.I did this the other week and got a handful
Thanks .
I missed that comment earlier on the thread.
1
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
I was well chuffed, the guy told me to collar him every time i see him and he will give me whatever he has in his van
Worth an ask if you ever bump into one or have one near by
I was well chuffed, the guy told me to collar him every time i see him and he will give me whatever he has in his van
Worth an ask if you ever bump into one or have one near by
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Loading Notifications...