UKC

So, let me begin. Or why not just.....Let me begin!

Why are so many people using 'so' at the beginning of posts?

Here's an example.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=659387

It must be an age thing. Bahh humbug.

In reply to estivoautumnal:
I noticed this too, but in TED talks of all places. Most of them seem to start with the word, and once you notice it, it's a bit annoying. I suppose it allows the speaker to get straight into the story without bothering with an introduction, but I wish, for novelty if nothing else, some different tools were used every now and again.

In reply to estivoautumnal:


I think it all began with Heaney's translation of Beowulf, which seemed like a kind of genius at the time.

"So."

In his mouth it was a beautiful, resonant word, charged with import and purpose. It commanded listeners to pull their chairs up to the fire and hear how things were and how things must be. It was like an intake of breath, a hiatus before the headlong rush of life. It was a sword raised against the darkness outside the mead hall.

And now it is a commonplace tic, a meaningless irritation.

That's the way of things. It will pass.

In reply to estivoautumnal:

Similar provenance to "Can I get...", I assume?

Maybe it's supposed to sound assertive?... Or summut.

Raises my hackles, personally.

In reply to estivoautumnal:

It presumes acquaintance by assuming the resumption of an interrupted conversation.

That, plus people hear so many people saying it that they assume that using it in informal writing is OK. Personally, I blame Nigel Farage.

T.

In reply to markAut:

I agree. It's a bit annoying, and then some. But strangely enough the habit some Irish people have of putting "so" on the end of their sentences seems quite endearing to me.....

In reply to estivoautumnal:

So, it's everywhere, it's unnecessary and it's annoying.

I first noticed it on the radio a few years back now when, usually, a scientist was beginning to explain something to the presenter. It's a teacher presenting facts to a student sort of usage. It just about makes sense in that context although it was still used far too frequently.

Now it seems to be dropped in everywhere. Bah humbug indeed.

In reply to Siward:

It is very prevalent in scientific presentations, and already was when slides were real slides.

My theory is that it was then used as shorthand for asking the assistant operating the projector to switch from the title slide to the first data slide. "May I have the first slide, please" was the more formal version.

It may have been retained in powerpoint times as an announcement that there will not be much of an intro, and actual content starts now, and spilled over in general use from there.

CB

In reply to estivoautumnal:

When they cut to a journalist live in situ the journalist always begins with 'Well'. Once you know this you'll notice it all the time and it becomes, well, a little annoying.

Snow: What's the mood on the street, Matt?
Frei: Well, John, it's ...

In reply to estivoautumnal:

It's irritating, but not as irritating as my kids' habit of finishing every sentence with '...so, yeah.'

In reply to estivoautumnal:

Whats also annoying is a politician starting with "Let me be clear" when faced with a difficult question, who then goes on to be anything but.

Al

In reply to cb294:

Yes, I think it started to come in around the turn of the millennium. It wasn't a thing back in the 90s, but then neither was 'a thing'.

I have a feeling it started as a way of dealing with that situation where someone in the audience without a microphone has asked a question and the speaker isn't sure the rest of the audience has heard it - 'So, the question was...' I may have used it in that way myself.

In reply to estivoautumnal:

I think it functions as a sort of introductory clearing-of-the-throat. Just starting a conversation or a forum thread by launching straight into a statement of fact would feel too abrupt, but starting off with something like "hello everybody, I am posting here today because..." might seem excessively long winded and redundant.

I'm surprised that it winds people up so much. If you can't handle the fact that languages evolve you should probably start learning Proto Indo European.

In reply to estivoautumnal:

Haha. I have almost started this thread several times! I can understand it being used colloquially when speaking but when written? I like Pursued By a Bear's theory about it "presumes acquaintance by assuming the resumption of an interrupted conversation".

I recently interviewed someone whose conversation was full of these tics, I got so bored waiting for something that wasn't filler I made a list of them:

Sort of...
I mean...
Errr...
I guess...
Like...
Well...
I dunno...
Maybe...
Ummmm....
Pfffft...

In reply to GridNorth:

Kind of like describing their (probably) dishonourable enemy as 'my honourable friend'.

***

@Wicamoi, as you say the first word in Beowulf, 'Hwaet', is usually translated as 'So!' or 'Listen!'. Tolkien used to say that when lecturing on Beowulf he'd start by quoting the opening lines and gain students' immediate attention because they thought he was shouting 'Quiet!'.

***

On the whole, different strokes for different forums perhaps. In other places I always start with a 'Hi' but it doesn't seem necessary here.

I have to say (type?) though that I don't like this modern language thing. It's worse in Welsh where the translation of ceremony is now seremoni, possible = posibl, zero = sero, traffic = traffig, queue = ciw et c. et c. and you can make any verb you like by taking the English infinitive and adding '-io' as a suffix. Strikes me as something of a dilution.

That's my daily rant done.

D

In reply to estivoautumnal:

I have noticed this phenomenon a lot in conversation:

What have you been up to this weekend?

So, on Saturday I....

In reply to estivoautumnal:
Would rather hear 'So' at the start of a sentence than 'Literally'.

My big pet hate is high rising intonation...

In reply to estivoautumnal:

I do it all too often and cringe every time. Feel free to leave damning comments pointing it out on any Dicks Climbing social media posts!

In reply to estivoautumnal:

I use 'So...' at the start of a spoken sentence on a regular basis - often when working with chn. It refocuses the group really well.

I do that think I'd use it in writing but sometimes I surprise myself!

In reply to bouldery bits:

it should be a very long drawn out and inscrutable "So" while you gaze piercingly at members of the group, pausing long enough for each to think your eyes can read their every thought and guilt at work left undone

In reply to GridNorth:


Or even more irritating....beginning a response with the word "look" in an over assertive manner! I'm sure it was Blair who started that off amongst politicians!

In reply to estivoautumnal:

I think it's just a way to get peoples' attention, to make it clear you're about to say something (important?).

In reply to estivoautumnal:

So what?

In reply to blackratdog:

So why do some people prefer to talk about their minor irritations in life, rather than serious issues?

In reply to estivoautumnal:

Almost as irritating as people picking other people's use of dialect apart

In reply to Offwidth:


Well, my tiny brain can't transpose its deep thoughts into text on a computer.

In reply to estivoautumnal:

I think it's conversational, like you would start a conversation. I find myself doing it (though, have to say, I've never seen it followed by a full stop!) when I mark students' work, i.e "so if you write about an IV you must make sure you operationalise it" , that sort of thing.

In reply to estivoautumnal:

So, what's the conclusion to all this? Is so so annoying? Is so and so's opinion on so more valid than some other so and so? So what? So an album by Peter Gabriel, I reckon he started to sow this discontent

In reply to estivoautumnal:

Definitely scientists. It seemed to begin, simultaneously, 3 or 4 years ago, as if by mass telepathy, on lots of media interviews and programmes, from The Sky at Night, The infinite Monkey Cage, Inside Science and Horizon to name a few.

(Pedants, please note the use of the perfectly serviceable expression "as if" instead of the ubiquitous modern "like", the use of which would have resulted in the breaking of fingers, cutting out of tongues or cracking of heads during my schooldays.)

In reply to wercat:

I first noticed this with comedians. Can't say when exactly, but it may have been as long as ten years ago. That's a lot of irritation!

T.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:


Tim Vine takes a lot of the blame for this. Renders him totally unwatchable, for me at least.

In reply to Offwidth:


Stops the minor irritations quietly building into serious issues and then going postal when it finally becomes too much?

In reply to Bob Kemp:


I would be happy if they would speak in sentences at all!

In reply to Bobling:

I did the same with my youngest who was going for a promotion interview, I chatted to her about what she was going to say, and noted the tics and repeated them back to her , as she said them.

She took a while to catch on, but soon became annoyed with herself that she was using them so often - ' like'.

After a while, she got in top of it, and I'm glad to say she got the promotion, she received a better salary, and secured a mortgage and bought a new house, and is moving out early next month.
(It is only half a mile away, but she will be 'fledged' the nest)

I 'like' it

In reply to GridNorth:


That's a prayer though

In reply to estivoautumnal:

Other languages also do it: Alors (Fr), Dus (NL)...maybe others? Is it so bad? At least it has a valid function and isn't just utterly wrong, like the increasing use of "myself" instead of "me". E.g.:

[Imagine a photo]

Myself and John on Magic Route Y.

In reply to Alasdair Fulton:


'...unlike...', surely?

In reply to Removed UserBwox:

Touché!