UKC

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with attempting to train power endurance (anaerobic endurance) on rock rings? I'm currently attempting to simulate as best possible carrying out rhythm intervals on them, going between the three and four fingers rungs; shaking out on the top jugs within a four minute set of 30 second blocks of effort and shaking out.

Does anyone have any better or other ideas for this?

Cheers

In reply to Lamb:

Just simple pull ups are a pretty good basic exercise, particularly if you can work up to 10 reps or so. You can add more sets as you get stronger, or add weight. You can perform them in an L-sit position (either with legs straight or knees bent) to use anterior core too. Bear in mind that power endurance when climbing isn't only about your fingers. Arms, shoulders, back and core are all required too. Pull ups train all of these at the same time.

In reply to Lamb:
What you are doing sounds more aerobic than anaerobic.
I'd recommend doing sets of repeaters (hang 7 seconds, rest 3 seconds), repeat x 4 - 6 for a single set) with fairly short rests between sets eg a couple of minutes.

To vary difficulty you could switch between 4 and 6 sets, add some weight or block up the back of the hold with some cardboard to make it shallower. Don't rest for too long between sets (ie, if it's too hard then use a bigger hold or do one fewer rep. If you rest longer and do harder reps/sets then you'll probably be training strength rather than endurance.)

You should be powered out, not pumped.

In reply to stp:
You won't train forearm endurance meaningfully by doing pull ups: you'll get tired in your shoulders or upper arms and stop too soon. They are also a really easy way to injure yourself for the long term if done with bad form, which is easy to fall into when tired.
(I went through a stage of doing a 'centurion' a couple of times a week: 100 pullups in 10 minutes or the big bm2000 pockets or 20 degree slopers. All it was really good for was burning more kcal than a standard Fingerboard workout, and injuring my elbows.)
They are better used in my view a couple of reps at a time for max strength training with added weight.

In reply to Si dH:

Bit of wrong title thread, sounds like no power is being used, mostly sounds like boredom threshold is being trained. The closest training would be what stp suggested. Frenchies would be a good addition, as would rolling up into tuck (chest and torso pointing up) and performing pull-ups (aka inclined rows) for that roof section simulation.

Enbeefcaken

In reply to alx:

Well in that case it's certainly not anaerobic either. I've assumed that the OP current guessed exercises are mistargeted and you've assumed he has completely misunderstood what he is asking for...

In reply to Si dH:

Thanks Si dH, I had previously experimented with repeaters but found the holds simply too big to be working anaerobic endurance within the forearms; as you mentioned yourself. I did also experiment with adding weight to it to make it work but found I was having to add a stupid amount of weight and decided it wasn't sensible. But I did not think about adding cardboard cut outs to reduce the hold size, that sounds like a good idea, will give that a shot - thanks.

It is interesting what you say about being 'powered out, not pumped', I have been wondering about the distinction between this myself. As I have been finding on sport routes around the 7a to 7a+ range that across the 14-16 move range (circa 90 seconds of continuously sequency climbing) I will power out, not pump out. What is the difference between the two sensations? If I am climbing indoors at Ratho I will get pumped out my mind as desired quite easily around 20m up on steep 6c+/7a routes. Is the difference purely that 90 seconds of sequency climbing is slightly more strength related on the spectrum of anaerobic endurance, meanwhile being pumped stupid is more so endurance based on the scale, i.e. takes more than 90 seconds?

As you also discussed further down, doing Frenchies with pull ups on the jugs was a good exercise for the shoulders and upper arms, but I didn't feel too much work directly in the forearms.

In reply to Si dH:


I think it depends on the strengths and weaknesses of the individual. When I do pull ups on edges my fingers always give out first because for me they are by far the weakest link. You can change the emphasis from fingers to upper body by changing the edge size used. Pull ups, like any complex exercise, will always train the weakest parts of the chain first. Over time I think the weak links will get stronger and even out.

But the question wasn't specifically for forearm training just power endurance for climbing. As climbing is a complex and very varied activity the answer can be pretty different depending on the kind of climbing we're talking about. Steeper climbing will usually require more general upper body and core strength. Less steep climbing tends to be more about the fingers/forearms.

As for the 100 pull ups in 10 minutes that's a very impressive feat of strength - very few climbers could manage that. Training wise though I'd be modifying the exercise long before I was that strong to make it harder, and train at a lower rep range with longer rests.

Totally agree about maintaining good form and the increased risk of injury of training when tired.

In reply to Lamb:

Look at any of the ukc fit club threads (the latest is 521); the introduction post to each includes links to some articles that would explain this for you much better than I can without spending huge amounts of time. I'd particularly recommend the alex barrows article.

Super simplistically, if you are completely pumped, you are running out of aerobic endurance, not anaerobic. And yes, aerobic endurance gets used on longer sequences. Anecdotally I found foot on campusing on a Fingerboard to be great for improving aerobic endurance (specifically 'aerobic power' within the Barrows article) and this helped me hugely on a route last summer, but this is for longer stuff than you asked about (it was a sustained 15m route.)