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Hi All
I've been climbing since the new Year at my local wall. Things are going ok and I'm starting to recognise my weaknesses. I can only manage to visit the wall once a week. Maybe twice if I start taking my little one. No idea how well he'll take to it but we'll see.
The two elephants are technique which is no surprise but also stamina. I fully appreciate that both are linked with poor technique leading to too much effort being expended etc.
I do however feel that stamina wise I'm starting from a low base. This probably isn't helped by a medical condition (kidney disease) and years of not doing much in the way of upper body exercise. Many moons ago I used to weight train a lot which has probably built up a short, explosive muscle (now whittled away) but not much on the long sustained effort front.
I've rigged up a rough and ready pull up bar and I've started doing assisted pull ups and dead hangs. I'm losing weight and I try to run 4 times a week.
Any other suggestions?
I've been climbing since the new Year at my local wall. Things are going ok and I'm starting to recognise my weaknesses. I can only manage to visit the wall once a week. Maybe twice if I start taking my little one. No idea how well he'll take to it but we'll see.
The two elephants are technique which is no surprise but also stamina. I fully appreciate that both are linked with poor technique leading to too much effort being expended etc.
I do however feel that stamina wise I'm starting from a low base. This probably isn't helped by a medical condition (kidney disease) and years of not doing much in the way of upper body exercise. Many moons ago I used to weight train a lot which has probably built up a short, explosive muscle (now whittled away) but not much on the long sustained effort front.
I've rigged up a rough and ready pull up bar and I've started doing assisted pull ups and dead hangs. I'm losing weight and I try to run 4 times a week.
Any other suggestions?
In reply to Noo Noo:
You need to climb more. Get loads of easy climbing or traversing for 15-20 minutes at a time, 2-3 sets per session and keep increasing it. You should do this 2-3 times per week building up over 4-6 weeks. You should be breathless, sweating but not so pumped you fall off. Practice technique while you are doing this but your technique should improve anyway.
Careful with dead hangs if your fingers aren't used to it as a tendon injury will really set you back. Pull ups won't help you much at your current level.
You need to climb more. Get loads of easy climbing or traversing for 15-20 minutes at a time, 2-3 sets per session and keep increasing it. You should do this 2-3 times per week building up over 4-6 weeks. You should be breathless, sweating but not so pumped you fall off. Practice technique while you are doing this but your technique should improve anyway.
Careful with dead hangs if your fingers aren't used to it as a tendon injury will really set you back. Pull ups won't help you much at your current level.
In reply to Scott K:
Cheers. The pull ups aren't so much about strength but with assistance I'm trying to push reps and engage my core more than anything.
Agreed on the climbing front but work and the little'un make that a very difficult solution even living in the heart of Snowdonia.
So is there any more I can do at home perhaps?
Cheers. The pull ups aren't so much about strength but with assistance I'm trying to push reps and engage my core more than anything.
Agreed on the climbing front but work and the little'un make that a very difficult solution even living in the heart of Snowdonia.
So is there any more I can do at home perhaps?
1
In reply to Noo Noo:
With the limited time you do have at the wall, try and spend say 1/4-1/2 of the session (the first part) doing technique drills. You can search other threads, search youtube or buy books for these drills. Basically body awareness and footwork are what you want to focus on. This is a hugely valuable use of your time (you learn techniques), but it also sets up the rest of your session with the right frame of mind as well as warming you up (preventing injury).
Your hang-training could be detrimental to your climbing ability if you do too much of it and don't climb enough, as you'll discover you can overcome barriers just by training harder and becoming lighter/stronger (further ingraining whatever techniques you have, some of which are quite possibly not good ones). The effort to undo bad habits is probably on the order of 10x more than the effort to just learn correct techniques from the start (in general).
In terms of stuff you can do at home (and anywhere else for that matter), one thing I personally would single out is a 'foot pointing' exercise. Stand on one leg, and using your other leg, point and touch with your big toe some little point (something between the size of a 5p and a quarter of that size), then bring that leg behind you and repeat for another point. Accuracy (bang on target, hitting the target totally delicately - not smashing into it at speed) are more important with speed, and remember to do this with 'targets' in all directions (on the floor, on the wall, high, low, to the left of you, to the right, behind you a bit, etc).
The other thing is to watch loads of videos of good climbers, and really think about what they are doing, and why. It could take dozens of views to spot something that's over in 2 seconds or less (I've watched the Leavittation video probably 30 times and spotted things around viewing 25 that I hadn't seen before). Imagine yourself doing the moves. Many experiments have been done that showed that people who imagined themselves doing an activity were almost as good at doing it as people who had been doing it.
With the limited time you do have at the wall, try and spend say 1/4-1/2 of the session (the first part) doing technique drills. You can search other threads, search youtube or buy books for these drills. Basically body awareness and footwork are what you want to focus on. This is a hugely valuable use of your time (you learn techniques), but it also sets up the rest of your session with the right frame of mind as well as warming you up (preventing injury).
Your hang-training could be detrimental to your climbing ability if you do too much of it and don't climb enough, as you'll discover you can overcome barriers just by training harder and becoming lighter/stronger (further ingraining whatever techniques you have, some of which are quite possibly not good ones). The effort to undo bad habits is probably on the order of 10x more than the effort to just learn correct techniques from the start (in general).
In terms of stuff you can do at home (and anywhere else for that matter), one thing I personally would single out is a 'foot pointing' exercise. Stand on one leg, and using your other leg, point and touch with your big toe some little point (something between the size of a 5p and a quarter of that size), then bring that leg behind you and repeat for another point. Accuracy (bang on target, hitting the target totally delicately - not smashing into it at speed) are more important with speed, and remember to do this with 'targets' in all directions (on the floor, on the wall, high, low, to the left of you, to the right, behind you a bit, etc).
The other thing is to watch loads of videos of good climbers, and really think about what they are doing, and why. It could take dozens of views to spot something that's over in 2 seconds or less (I've watched the Leavittation video probably 30 times and spotted things around viewing 25 that I hadn't seen before). Imagine yourself doing the moves. Many experiments have been done that showed that people who imagined themselves doing an activity were almost as good at doing it as people who had been doing it.
4
In reply to Noo Noo:
I'm no training expert but I've done 15 pull ups, press ups and situps a day for ages and it's given me a really good basic strength.
If you're feeling more serious then fingerboarding will help, or possibly injure you and set you back months depending on what you do with it .
Good technique will get you a very very long way before you need to be strong.
I'm no training expert but I've done 15 pull ups, press ups and situps a day for ages and it's given me a really good basic strength.
If you're feeling more serious then fingerboarding will help, or possibly injure you and set you back months depending on what you do with it .
Good technique will get you a very very long way before you need to be strong.
2
In reply to Scott K:
So far as I know, running has virtually no benefits for climbing other than possibly weight-loss - the only way to get climbing stamina is by doing lots of (often tediously easy) climbing.
Personally I think, for someone who has just started and only climbs once a week, trying to get an extra session in would be the single most important step. Try incorporating some bouldering - I find that the most enjoyable way to get stamina, is to be strong enough that the moves feel easy! Just trying really hard on stuff you enjoy is more beneficial (or at least more likely to be persevered with) than any military sounding regimen involving timings and "sets".
> The running will help. Core and flexibility would be good as well.
So far as I know, running has virtually no benefits for climbing other than possibly weight-loss - the only way to get climbing stamina is by doing lots of (often tediously easy) climbing.
Personally I think, for someone who has just started and only climbs once a week, trying to get an extra session in would be the single most important step. Try incorporating some bouldering - I find that the most enjoyable way to get stamina, is to be strong enough that the moves feel easy! Just trying really hard on stuff you enjoy is more beneficial (or at least more likely to be persevered with) than any military sounding regimen involving timings and "sets".
Post edited at 22:19
5
In reply to Noo Noo:
If you've only recently started climbing then this article would be well worth reading as its tailored exactly to your requirements.
https://www.climber.co.uk/skills/coaching/15-training-tips-for-beginners.ht...
If you've only recently started climbing then this article would be well worth reading as its tailored exactly to your requirements.
https://www.climber.co.uk/skills/coaching/15-training-tips-for-beginners.ht...
1
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:
In fact, some coaches think running is detrimental but I was replying to a post saying that they can't get extra sessions in. Running will help with basic fitness and weight loss which will of course help your climbing.
In fact, some coaches think running is detrimental but I was replying to a post saying that they can't get extra sessions in. Running will help with basic fitness and weight loss which will of course help your climbing.
2
In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:
Pretty much what thebigfriendlymoose said.
Working out with weights is a much better idea for weight loss if you're a climber, as strength in more relevant muscles is increased at the same time as burning calories.
You need to climb more, running four times a week is more likely to hinder your efforts, when you do climb you won't be able to put in 100%.
Boulder or climb whenever possible.
Pretty much what thebigfriendlymoose said.
Working out with weights is a much better idea for weight loss if you're a climber, as strength in more relevant muscles is increased at the same time as burning calories.
You need to climb more, running four times a week is more likely to hinder your efforts, when you do climb you won't be able to put in 100%.
Boulder or climb whenever possible.
Post edited at 07:46
1
In reply to Scott K:
Weight loss, maybe, but even that tends to largely depend on diet. Personally I have not done any regular aerobic exercise at all for 25 years, though I feel I should start, only to make walk-ins to crags less onerous!
Weight loss, maybe, but even that tends to largely depend on diet. Personally I have not done any regular aerobic exercise at all for 25 years, though I feel I should start, only to make walk-ins to crags less onerous!
4
In reply to SenzuBean:
Many thanks. Your point on bad habits really struck a chord. It's something I'm really conscious about and want to avoid for the very reason you point out. I am certainly in favour of building good technique from Day 1 rather than correcting poor technique later.
Top tip on the toe pointing. Will look into that.
Agreed on the hang time but grip / finger strength is a small weakness that needs to be improved. I'm not going mad on it and with your advice will keep it as a small part.
Many thanks. Your point on bad habits really struck a chord. It's something I'm really conscious about and want to avoid for the very reason you point out. I am certainly in favour of building good technique from Day 1 rather than correcting poor technique later.
Top tip on the toe pointing. Will look into that.
Agreed on the hang time but grip / finger strength is a small weakness that needs to be improved. I'm not going mad on it and with your advice will keep it as a small part.
In reply to pec:
Many thanks. I've watched Neil Greshams masterclass several times. in my opinion they are the best training vids I've found to be fair.
Many thanks. I've watched Neil Greshams masterclass several times. in my opinion they are the best training vids I've found to be fair.
In reply to Removed Usergilesf:
I dont want to give up the running if I'm honest. It's helping with my weight loss programme but with the health issues I have building aerobic fitness is a big plus. Again I'm not going mad, only 2-3 miles normally with one larger / or tougher run.
half tempted to see if I can add some climbing holds in the attic.
I dont want to give up the running if I'm honest. It's helping with my weight loss programme but with the health issues I have building aerobic fitness is a big plus. Again I'm not going mad, only 2-3 miles normally with one larger / or tougher run.
half tempted to see if I can add some climbing holds in the attic.
In reply to Noo Noo:
I really don't see the problem with running; at the very highest level then maybe it is detrimental in that it puts extra weight on in your legs but even then it still boosts your cardio system. As someone else said, it'll help make long days and big walk ins outside a little less painful!
The key is to enjoy it and not burn out from one just doing one thing all the time. If you're trying to lose weight then exercise in general will help, it doesn't necessarily need to be climbing specific, but adding in some basic core workouts post-run will definitely carry through well. Longer, steady paced runs seem to be the most beneficial from the point of building a good base fitness, and from that everything else comes, including increased lactic threshold.
As virtually everyone else has said, don't overdo training your fingers, that'll come from just climbing more. Focus instead on technique; it's easier to get good form and technique at the outset rather than try to undo years of bad technique when you realise it's holding you back. If you look at the best climbers there's an efficiency and fluidity to their movement, and that in itself will get you up some quite hard climbs without resorting to muscle.
I really don't see the problem with running; at the very highest level then maybe it is detrimental in that it puts extra weight on in your legs but even then it still boosts your cardio system. As someone else said, it'll help make long days and big walk ins outside a little less painful!
The key is to enjoy it and not burn out from one just doing one thing all the time. If you're trying to lose weight then exercise in general will help, it doesn't necessarily need to be climbing specific, but adding in some basic core workouts post-run will definitely carry through well. Longer, steady paced runs seem to be the most beneficial from the point of building a good base fitness, and from that everything else comes, including increased lactic threshold.
As virtually everyone else has said, don't overdo training your fingers, that'll come from just climbing more. Focus instead on technique; it's easier to get good form and technique at the outset rather than try to undo years of bad technique when you realise it's holding you back. If you look at the best climbers there's an efficiency and fluidity to their movement, and that in itself will get you up some quite hard climbs without resorting to muscle.
1
In reply to Cloverleaf:
Thanks and I absolutely agree. I'm a big fan of Jain Kim's climbing style.
I'm finding technique is a hard one to translate from what you see onto the wall at times. Unsurprisingly as the grade and my fatigue increases the more ragged I become.
I'll have to become more disciplined I think and really concentrate on what I know on the easier climbs and build in good habits and take the time to traverse at the start of every session. I do this already as part of a warm up but more is needed I think.
Thanks and I absolutely agree. I'm a big fan of Jain Kim's climbing style.
I'm finding technique is a hard one to translate from what you see onto the wall at times. Unsurprisingly as the grade and my fatigue increases the more ragged I become.
I'll have to become more disciplined I think and really concentrate on what I know on the easier climbs and build in good habits and take the time to traverse at the start of every session. I do this already as part of a warm up but more is needed I think.
In reply to Noo Noo:
I started running when i started climbing because I didn't have the fitness to climb even at a basic level at that stage. Running has helped enormously; and it actually got me back to my pre-pregnancy weight - I finally managed to shift that last half stone, and it was nice to say goodbye to it. So I think running is a good thing, and whereas I started doing it for the sake of climbing it has now become a big pleasure in itself.
I started running when i started climbing because I didn't have the fitness to climb even at a basic level at that stage. Running has helped enormously; and it actually got me back to my pre-pregnancy weight - I finally managed to shift that last half stone, and it was nice to say goodbye to it. So I think running is a good thing, and whereas I started doing it for the sake of climbing it has now become a big pleasure in itself.
In reply to Noo Noo:
Have you thought about climbing circuits? Pick something comfortable within your grade and climb the circuit over and over again focusing on technique until you start to get pumped. Rest and repeat.
Have you thought about climbing circuits? Pick something comfortable within your grade and climb the circuit over and over again focusing on technique until you start to get pumped. Rest and repeat.
In reply to Noo Noo:
There's a lot of over thinking going on here, it's frustrating to see.
If you've only been climbing once a week since the new year, your biggest improvements for the next couple of years are going to be made by climbing/bouldering more. Simple.
Maybe do some improver sessions at your local wall too, to help with technique.
There's a lot of over thinking going on here, it's frustrating to see.
If you've only been climbing once a week since the new year, your biggest improvements for the next couple of years are going to be made by climbing/bouldering more. Simple.
Maybe do some improver sessions at your local wall too, to help with technique.
1
In reply to Removed Usergilesf:
I disagree gilesf. One important point is that I would find it difficult to climb 3 times a week due to work and the other commitments. ~
So I've basically been asking of there's anything else I can do at home to help.
I disagree gilesf. One important point is that I would find it difficult to climb 3 times a week due to work and the other commitments. ~
So I've basically been asking of there's anything else I can do at home to help.
In reply to Noo Noo:
Fingerboard at home?
> I disagree gilesf. One important point is that I would find it difficult to climb 3 times a week due to work and the other commitments. ~So I've basically been asking of there's anything else I can do at home to help.
Fingerboard at home?
1
In reply to Noo Noo:
Sorry, I didn't read your original post thoroughly enough!
In that case I'd recommend downloading a good bodyweight exercise app and following it as closely as possible. Combine it with some fingerboard work too, although i don't have enough experience to recommend how much.
Have one full day off exercise and climbing each week.
Sorry, I didn't read your original post thoroughly enough!
In that case I'd recommend downloading a good bodyweight exercise app and following it as closely as possible. Combine it with some fingerboard work too, although i don't have enough experience to recommend how much.
Have one full day off exercise and climbing each week.
1
In reply to Noo Noo:
If you've only been climbing since the New Year, in not having done any climbing before that, do be careful not to injure yourself with any training focused at improving your climbing.
Make sure to warm up thoroughly before doing any training.
If you've only been climbing since the New Year, in not having done any climbing before that, do be careful not to injure yourself with any training focused at improving your climbing.
Make sure to warm up thoroughly before doing any training.
1
In reply to Noo Noo:
You say you're in Snowdonia? Are you close to the Beacon wall? I used to go there with my little one at naptime as, now there are no steps, I could wheel her in in her buggy, leave her in the corner to sleep & go boulder. Same for the Indy wall on anglesey. No steps, so can just wheel buggy in!
Also, there are a fair few families who go to the Beacon often, who tag team it and share childcare up in the kiddie section & climbing routes between them. Something you could get involved in maybe?
You say you're in Snowdonia? Are you close to the Beacon wall? I used to go there with my little one at naptime as, now there are no steps, I could wheel her in in her buggy, leave her in the corner to sleep & go boulder. Same for the Indy wall on anglesey. No steps, so can just wheel buggy in!
Also, there are a fair few families who go to the Beacon often, who tag team it and share childcare up in the kiddie section & climbing routes between them. Something you could get involved in maybe?
2
In reply to DragonsDoExist:
Sounds like a good idea but while I know the Beacon and have been its not my local wall. That's not to say I wont be going again. Its a very popular place from what I've seen and I dont anyone that goes there regularly.
I did try taking the little one down to my local on Friday afternoon. He didn't quite take to it but it wasn't a 100% flat "NO". We'll try again. and I'll figure something out.
On my next trip I want to try some easier routes but really try working on technique and styling them out. try and build in some better habits. I'm becoming aware of some bad one's creeping in myself.
Sounds like a good idea but while I know the Beacon and have been its not my local wall. That's not to say I wont be going again. Its a very popular place from what I've seen and I dont anyone that goes there regularly.
I did try taking the little one down to my local on Friday afternoon. He didn't quite take to it but it wasn't a 100% flat "NO". We'll try again. and I'll figure something out.
On my next trip I want to try some easier routes but really try working on technique and styling them out. try and build in some better habits. I'm becoming aware of some bad one's creeping in myself.
In reply to Noo Noo:
OK so first congratulations on finding this sport. Now please let me offer you some first hand advice, because frankly I don't want anyone else suffering the same way I did.
The good thing is you sound quite committed to getting fitter. The bad thing is that (and it's difficult to say tbh) but I get the feeling you're over-doing it. Let's go over a few things - and again this is from personal experience that I've had with training and ensuing injuries, not theoretical stuff.
- Pull-ups: A good exercise but requires the correct posture and technique. Ensure you're doing wide grip pullups focusing on the back, medium grip pullups which engage the traps and chest and chin ups which engage the biceps. Do Not overdo this exercise seriously it is an intense exercise and I would advise you not to do it every day, give your body time to regenerate. Once or twice a week is enough.
- Stamina probably isn't holding you back. As your technique improves you will require less stamina and strength to complete routes/boulders. In climbing technique is basically 90% of the sport, perhaps that last 10% can be down to fitness and conditioning. You'd probably need to be climbing for several years for it to make a massive difference tbh.
At my local bouldering gym, I consider myself to be a fairly fit guy. And yet some people, more overweight than me, not as strong can flash boulders easily that I just can't. And that is their technique and mental commitment to the moves is just better than mine, being fitter would not help me too much.
- Add in push-ups to your off the wall training. Do wide, normal, narrow (diamond push ups) and engage your core and ass. The push-up is an all body exercise and will counteract the pulling exercise of climbing which can lead to over developed pulling muscles.
- Add other exercises as you want, but if you're climbing once or twice a week for 3-4 hours and doing some pull-ups and push-ups that is quite a lot of exercise and you'll need to make sure your body is able to recouperate from that before adding more. Some basic suggests would be squats, lunges, deadlifts and some core work which you can do on the pul-up bar like leg raises.
- Injuries can happen because of repeated stress and strain on muscles/tendons/joints. Particularly in bouldering gyms, repeated jumping onto the mats can take its toll on your knees. Try to climb down rather than jump down. You may not feel it initially but over time your knees will become weaker if you dont recouperate enough.
- Fingerboarding. Try not to do this too much. If you're climbing regularly you shouldnt need to do this. As you progress you might find it useful occasionally if theres a particular route or move you want to work on. But please only do this when you've been climbing a while and have a better idea what you want to do. Same goes for campus boarding. It's a recipe for injury that could set you back months or years.
- Eat well. You mentioned you have Kidney disease. You may want to consult a professional about your diet, since I'm not an expert. But it is really important that you eat lots and mix in plenty of protein and not worry about eating fat or carb - you need this to be healthy. Make sure before a climbing session you've eaten well, either a carb like porridge which is metabolised slowly or carb like fruit such as bananas which will give you the blood sugar you need to keep you climbing. When you're done eat soon after, protein shakes can help, but also snack on things like nuts or other high protein food.
If you notice your muscles aching a day or two after a training session it is because you have not eaten enough to replenish those muscles. Eat well and you won't feel this aching.
OK so first congratulations on finding this sport. Now please let me offer you some first hand advice, because frankly I don't want anyone else suffering the same way I did.
The good thing is you sound quite committed to getting fitter. The bad thing is that (and it's difficult to say tbh) but I get the feeling you're over-doing it. Let's go over a few things - and again this is from personal experience that I've had with training and ensuing injuries, not theoretical stuff.
- Pull-ups: A good exercise but requires the correct posture and technique. Ensure you're doing wide grip pullups focusing on the back, medium grip pullups which engage the traps and chest and chin ups which engage the biceps. Do Not overdo this exercise seriously it is an intense exercise and I would advise you not to do it every day, give your body time to regenerate. Once or twice a week is enough.
- Stamina probably isn't holding you back. As your technique improves you will require less stamina and strength to complete routes/boulders. In climbing technique is basically 90% of the sport, perhaps that last 10% can be down to fitness and conditioning. You'd probably need to be climbing for several years for it to make a massive difference tbh.
At my local bouldering gym, I consider myself to be a fairly fit guy. And yet some people, more overweight than me, not as strong can flash boulders easily that I just can't. And that is their technique and mental commitment to the moves is just better than mine, being fitter would not help me too much.
- Add in push-ups to your off the wall training. Do wide, normal, narrow (diamond push ups) and engage your core and ass. The push-up is an all body exercise and will counteract the pulling exercise of climbing which can lead to over developed pulling muscles.
- Add other exercises as you want, but if you're climbing once or twice a week for 3-4 hours and doing some pull-ups and push-ups that is quite a lot of exercise and you'll need to make sure your body is able to recouperate from that before adding more. Some basic suggests would be squats, lunges, deadlifts and some core work which you can do on the pul-up bar like leg raises.
- Injuries can happen because of repeated stress and strain on muscles/tendons/joints. Particularly in bouldering gyms, repeated jumping onto the mats can take its toll on your knees. Try to climb down rather than jump down. You may not feel it initially but over time your knees will become weaker if you dont recouperate enough.
- Fingerboarding. Try not to do this too much. If you're climbing regularly you shouldnt need to do this. As you progress you might find it useful occasionally if theres a particular route or move you want to work on. But please only do this when you've been climbing a while and have a better idea what you want to do. Same goes for campus boarding. It's a recipe for injury that could set you back months or years.
- Eat well. You mentioned you have Kidney disease. You may want to consult a professional about your diet, since I'm not an expert. But it is really important that you eat lots and mix in plenty of protein and not worry about eating fat or carb - you need this to be healthy. Make sure before a climbing session you've eaten well, either a carb like porridge which is metabolised slowly or carb like fruit such as bananas which will give you the blood sugar you need to keep you climbing. When you're done eat soon after, protein shakes can help, but also snack on things like nuts or other high protein food.
If you notice your muscles aching a day or two after a training session it is because you have not eaten enough to replenish those muscles. Eat well and you won't feel this aching.
2
3
In reply to Noo Noo:
I find ARC training to be very efficient when short on time for training and need to increase stamina. Article explaining how to:
http://www.climbing.com/skills/learn-to-train-local-endurance-for-climbers/
I would say most important is to have fun.
I find ARC training to be very efficient when short on time for training and need to increase stamina. Article explaining how to:
http://www.climbing.com/skills/learn-to-train-local-endurance-for-climbers/
I would say most important is to have fun.
Post edited at 15:19
1
In reply to nutme:
Sadly all routes to improvement for what you want are tedious and painful. ARC training, laps and circuits - climbing while pumped. Try for 4 circuits at each totalling 4 times the length of route you are aiming to climb (ie 4 reps of the length you want). Aiming to be barely holding on or falling (due to pump not difficulty) by the last circuit. Don't rest between reps - preferably climb down. Take a rest (of the time it takes your partner to complete the circuit and no more) between circuits.
It isn't pleasant but repeat once a week for 6 weeks and you'll begin to appreciate that it works. Sadly, like power endurance training, you lose it as fast as you gain it but if it pushes to another level in your regular climbing then you've got a hope of maintaining it.
Good luck - it is harder to maintain training than you think - remember to mix in some leisure climbing as well otherwise you'll quickly lose the will to carry on.
An important thing to remember, which many people forget, is this is the time to hone technique. Aim to climb efficiently and with style when you lap. It is all too tempting to flail around desperately when pumped out of your mind but this is the time to turn on technique and to climb as stylishly as you can. It is a mental aspect of climbing that is worth training as much as the physical side. It doesn't matter what technique you are using - just practice it while lapping, not only will it improve leaps and bounds but you'll have a new found ability to turn it on when the climbing gets desperate and that is gold dust for completing hard routes.
Since you're lapping you get to hone your route reading - aim to be more efficient, not less efficient, each lap.
Don't underestimate core strength and muscle groups like the shoulders - these are often weak points which contribute to sloppy technique and pumping out. Exercise these and magically your stamina in other areas will improve - again it is tedious and tough.
Weight loss is often mooted but it is a mixed bag. If you carry excess weight losing it helps. If you don't carry a lot of excess weight then you might lose as much power as you lose weight with no net gain and possibly loss. At the higher grades weight loss is often more important than at lower grades because finger strength to weight ratio dominates but at the beginner-punter end of the spectrum it is over-hyped, especially, if you start off reasonably fit. In any event it is power-to-weight ratio that matters, not weight. Dieting without training doesn't really work.
Sadly all routes to improvement for what you want are tedious and painful. ARC training, laps and circuits - climbing while pumped. Try for 4 circuits at each totalling 4 times the length of route you are aiming to climb (ie 4 reps of the length you want). Aiming to be barely holding on or falling (due to pump not difficulty) by the last circuit. Don't rest between reps - preferably climb down. Take a rest (of the time it takes your partner to complete the circuit and no more) between circuits.
It isn't pleasant but repeat once a week for 6 weeks and you'll begin to appreciate that it works. Sadly, like power endurance training, you lose it as fast as you gain it but if it pushes to another level in your regular climbing then you've got a hope of maintaining it.
Good luck - it is harder to maintain training than you think - remember to mix in some leisure climbing as well otherwise you'll quickly lose the will to carry on.
An important thing to remember, which many people forget, is this is the time to hone technique. Aim to climb efficiently and with style when you lap. It is all too tempting to flail around desperately when pumped out of your mind but this is the time to turn on technique and to climb as stylishly as you can. It is a mental aspect of climbing that is worth training as much as the physical side. It doesn't matter what technique you are using - just practice it while lapping, not only will it improve leaps and bounds but you'll have a new found ability to turn it on when the climbing gets desperate and that is gold dust for completing hard routes.
Since you're lapping you get to hone your route reading - aim to be more efficient, not less efficient, each lap.
Don't underestimate core strength and muscle groups like the shoulders - these are often weak points which contribute to sloppy technique and pumping out. Exercise these and magically your stamina in other areas will improve - again it is tedious and tough.
Weight loss is often mooted but it is a mixed bag. If you carry excess weight losing it helps. If you don't carry a lot of excess weight then you might lose as much power as you lose weight with no net gain and possibly loss. At the higher grades weight loss is often more important than at lower grades because finger strength to weight ratio dominates but at the beginner-punter end of the spectrum it is over-hyped, especially, if you start off reasonably fit. In any event it is power-to-weight ratio that matters, not weight. Dieting without training doesn't really work.
Post edited at 17:17
2
In reply to Noo Noo:
You've only been climbing since the new year. My biggest piece of advice would just be to be patient with stamina etc and improvement. Focus on movement skills and just try to do a little bit more each session. Personally I think it would be a mistake after 3 months to get into massively structured training as, with respect, you are not yet in a position to identify your real strengths and weaknesses. Your body has not yet really had time to adapt to the different demands that climbing places on it. For improving at this stage I would say the following:
#1 See if you can fit in the second session, but try not to do too much of the same thing. Maybe one session trying harder climbs you can't do, and the other one focusing on doing lots of climbs that you've done before and find easy.
#2 Try to embed good technique. Watch other, better climbers and try to emulate what they did on the same climb. Read some of the technique articles on this site and google. Generally it's about placing your feet carefully and positioning your body for minimum effort, maximum efficiency moving between the holds. Top tip for overhanging climbs is to use the outside of your foot, twist the same hip in as the hand you are reaching up with. When you start doing this it's a revelation and you realise that your existing stamina can carry you at lot further than you thought.
#3 'Read' the climb before you set off. Make a plan for what to do. If it doesn't work out, why? What went wrong? Think about what you did. Repeat climbs you've done in different ways to see if it makes it easier.
You've only been climbing since the new year. My biggest piece of advice would just be to be patient with stamina etc and improvement. Focus on movement skills and just try to do a little bit more each session. Personally I think it would be a mistake after 3 months to get into massively structured training as, with respect, you are not yet in a position to identify your real strengths and weaknesses. Your body has not yet really had time to adapt to the different demands that climbing places on it. For improving at this stage I would say the following:
#1 See if you can fit in the second session, but try not to do too much of the same thing. Maybe one session trying harder climbs you can't do, and the other one focusing on doing lots of climbs that you've done before and find easy.
#2 Try to embed good technique. Watch other, better climbers and try to emulate what they did on the same climb. Read some of the technique articles on this site and google. Generally it's about placing your feet carefully and positioning your body for minimum effort, maximum efficiency moving between the holds. Top tip for overhanging climbs is to use the outside of your foot, twist the same hip in as the hand you are reaching up with. When you start doing this it's a revelation and you realise that your existing stamina can carry you at lot further than you thought.
#3 'Read' the climb before you set off. Make a plan for what to do. If it doesn't work out, why? What went wrong? Think about what you did. Repeat climbs you've done in different ways to see if it makes it easier.
2
In reply to MrWayne:
Many thanks for this. Yes I agree its a slow process but I feel it will be worthwhile even in terms of my own basic health.
Good news is that I'm already seeing some progress. I'm a little less fatigued after a session now but I still feel satisfyingly worked. Getting pumped remains an issue as it would with anyone pushing their limit but I completely agree that technique is a massive area I need to work on. My head is stuffed full of moves from numerous training videos. Transferring that to the wall is certainly a challenge. I think I might pick a really easy section of wall and basically pick on individual moves and keep going through them over and over until they start to become second nature.
I dont think I'm over doing it yet as I haven't really put together a solid routine that I can follow. For me this helps. Even simply making the choice to get fitter is easier if I have a reason to. It's climbing now!
Diet is a bit of a hot topic. The real bummer with my kidney disease is that its possible for me to eat too healthy and suffer for it. I have to watch my potassium intake as my body cant filter it out quickly enough which means I have to be wary of how much along with what fruit and veg I eat. Banana's are sadly off the menu. Protein too has to be kept in check as this puts increased pressure on your kidneys.
Anyway things I need to really sort out are:
- a simple exercise routine to help build a little basic strength in key areas. Core, shoulders, back for example.
- find and do technique drills that work for me
- keep up the cardio. It has done me wonders so carry on for sure
- Continue with the weight loss. I've set myself a pretty stiff target of losing a 1.5 stones total. I'm 2/3's of the way there and at 12 stone dead that's a easy weight for me to maintain. I feel that extra half stone is feasible without losing any real power.
Many thanks for this. Yes I agree its a slow process but I feel it will be worthwhile even in terms of my own basic health.
Good news is that I'm already seeing some progress. I'm a little less fatigued after a session now but I still feel satisfyingly worked. Getting pumped remains an issue as it would with anyone pushing their limit but I completely agree that technique is a massive area I need to work on. My head is stuffed full of moves from numerous training videos. Transferring that to the wall is certainly a challenge. I think I might pick a really easy section of wall and basically pick on individual moves and keep going through them over and over until they start to become second nature.
I dont think I'm over doing it yet as I haven't really put together a solid routine that I can follow. For me this helps. Even simply making the choice to get fitter is easier if I have a reason to. It's climbing now!
Diet is a bit of a hot topic. The real bummer with my kidney disease is that its possible for me to eat too healthy and suffer for it. I have to watch my potassium intake as my body cant filter it out quickly enough which means I have to be wary of how much along with what fruit and veg I eat. Banana's are sadly off the menu. Protein too has to be kept in check as this puts increased pressure on your kidneys.
Anyway things I need to really sort out are:
- a simple exercise routine to help build a little basic strength in key areas. Core, shoulders, back for example.
- find and do technique drills that work for me
- keep up the cardio. It has done me wonders so carry on for sure
- Continue with the weight loss. I've set myself a pretty stiff target of losing a 1.5 stones total. I'm 2/3's of the way there and at 12 stone dead that's a easy weight for me to maintain. I feel that extra half stone is feasible without losing any real power.
In reply to Noo Noo:
I'm guessing you're looking for stuff you can do at home? What sort of equipment have you got? You mentioned a pull-up bar, and since you mentioned assisted pull-ups, I'm guessing some kind of resistance bands?
Also -- I saw from another post that you're in Blaenau Ffestiniog, so you're actually way closer to real rock than to any climbing walls.
I realize it might not make a difference if the barrier to climbing more than once a week is childcare, for example, but it'd at least cut the travel time way down.
I know that nowadays we all think in terms of getting started indoors and then progressing outdoors, but there's no reason not to start getting outdoors early on, and it'll do wonders for your footwork. If that seems like it might be more feasible than getting to a climbing wall another time, then maybe looking for a local partner could be an idea?
Obviously getting outdoors requires learning some more skills you may not have yet (whether that's how to spot or fall onto a mat, or how to at least lead belay and remove gear if you go for the trad side), but it's a thought.
> Anyway things I need to really sort out are: - a simple exercise routine to help build a little basic strength in key areas. Core, shoulders, back for example.
I'm guessing you're looking for stuff you can do at home? What sort of equipment have you got? You mentioned a pull-up bar, and since you mentioned assisted pull-ups, I'm guessing some kind of resistance bands?
Also -- I saw from another post that you're in Blaenau Ffestiniog, so you're actually way closer to real rock than to any climbing walls.
I realize it might not make a difference if the barrier to climbing more than once a week is childcare, for example, but it'd at least cut the travel time way down.
I know that nowadays we all think in terms of getting started indoors and then progressing outdoors, but there's no reason not to start getting outdoors early on, and it'll do wonders for your footwork. If that seems like it might be more feasible than getting to a climbing wall another time, then maybe looking for a local partner could be an idea?
Obviously getting outdoors requires learning some more skills you may not have yet (whether that's how to spot or fall onto a mat, or how to at least lead belay and remove gear if you go for the trad side), but it's a thought.
In reply to slab_happy:
Completely agree but I dont actually know anyone local that climbs. How daft is that!! Plus with the little'un its case of having my one night off a week and going down to the wall at Harlech. But with the summer coming there's certainly a chance of more outdoor stuff. I live 5 minutes walk from one crag, I can see it out the front window!!
I'm taking my first steps into lead climbs. So that will come.
Yes more at home to get some basic core strength more than anything. I feel I'm starting from quite a low base. I have a rough and ready pull up bar rigged across the top of the stairs into the attic room. I can hang from the bar and actually assist pull ups with my legs on the stairs. Works for leg raises too.
Completely agree but I dont actually know anyone local that climbs. How daft is that!! Plus with the little'un its case of having my one night off a week and going down to the wall at Harlech. But with the summer coming there's certainly a chance of more outdoor stuff. I live 5 minutes walk from one crag, I can see it out the front window!!
I'm taking my first steps into lead climbs. So that will come.
Yes more at home to get some basic core strength more than anything. I feel I'm starting from quite a low base. I have a rough and ready pull up bar rigged across the top of the stairs into the attic room. I can hang from the bar and actually assist pull ups with my legs on the stairs. Works for leg raises too.
In reply to Noo Noo:
That's what the internet is for! *g* Post on UKC asking and you might well find people who are either local or near enough to fancy popping over to your local crags for a climb.
Obviously it's wise to take standard safety precautions when meeting strangers off the internet, but I've met a bunch of people off UKC to climb with and not been axe-murdered yet.
And if you can lead belay reliably, you can potentially offer yourself up as a second for trad (all you'd need to learn is how to remove trad gear, which honestly takes about ten minutes at the base of the crag to learn), if that appeals. Which can be a good way of getting mileage in and learning about gear placements before you get into outdoor leading.
ETA: obviously you should tell people if you've not seconded outdoors before and need to be taught how to remove gear, but generally people are pretty keen on having a belay slave. *g*
Re: core stuff, the most effective thing I've ever done has been to set up a timer or app (Impetus is good if you have an Android phone) to ping on the minute for ten minutes, have a list of 10 core exercises (plank, side plank, plank on the other side, etc.) and just do a different one each minute. Obviously you could adjust this for shorter stints if you're building up to a minute on some exercises.
I hate it but I can tell myself it'll all be over in ten minutes. *g*
The core routine from "Training For The New Alpinism" might also be worth a look:
https://www.outsideonline.com/1987466/definitive-10-step-guide-building-do-...
> Completely agree but I dont actually know anyone local that climbs.
That's what the internet is for! *g* Post on UKC asking and you might well find people who are either local or near enough to fancy popping over to your local crags for a climb.
Obviously it's wise to take standard safety precautions when meeting strangers off the internet, but I've met a bunch of people off UKC to climb with and not been axe-murdered yet.
> I'm taking my first steps into lead climbs. So that will come.
And if you can lead belay reliably, you can potentially offer yourself up as a second for trad (all you'd need to learn is how to remove trad gear, which honestly takes about ten minutes at the base of the crag to learn), if that appeals. Which can be a good way of getting mileage in and learning about gear placements before you get into outdoor leading.
ETA: obviously you should tell people if you've not seconded outdoors before and need to be taught how to remove gear, but generally people are pretty keen on having a belay slave. *g*
Re: core stuff, the most effective thing I've ever done has been to set up a timer or app (Impetus is good if you have an Android phone) to ping on the minute for ten minutes, have a list of 10 core exercises (plank, side plank, plank on the other side, etc.) and just do a different one each minute. Obviously you could adjust this for shorter stints if you're building up to a minute on some exercises.
I hate it but I can tell myself it'll all be over in ten minutes. *g*
The core routine from "Training For The New Alpinism" might also be worth a look:
https://www.outsideonline.com/1987466/definitive-10-step-guide-building-do-...
Post edited at 11:50
In reply to Noo Noo:
Forgot to say -- it sounds like you already have a pretty good idea of what works for you to improve your overall fitness and what specific things you need to work on. So, keep on keeping on!
I think assisted pull-ups can be a pretty good way of building up some basic lat/arm strength; you could also do some inverted rows if you've got something to hang off (either the pull-up bar if the set-up works for that, or some sturdy furniture). Some climbing trainers have argued that we're more often pulling *in* than straight down when climbing, therefore rows are at least as important as pull-ups.
Just don't over-do the pull-ups (or rows) if your elbows start complaining.
Then a push motion helps keep things balanced (and gives you triceps strength for mantels), so throw in some basic push-ups (off a counter or bench is actually better than doing them off your knees if you need to modify them, as it keeps the plank element).
If you've done a lot of weight training in the past, you probably already know a bunch about strength training, so it's just a question of finding stuff that works for you at home.
Some people (I'm one of them) get a lot out of yoga and find it complements climbing very well; there are lots of good classes available on DVDs or on YouTube, so it can be a good no-equipment home option. I think it can especially help with keeping your shoulders flexible and counter-acting the forwards rounding that a lot of us get from climbing (and computer use). Plus, great for balance, flexibility and proprioception.
> Anyway things I need to really sort out are: - a simple exercise routine to help build a little basic strength in key areas. Core, shoulders, back for example. - find and do technique drills that work for me - keep up the cardio. It has done me wonders so carry on for sure - Continue with the weight loss. I've set myself a pretty stiff target of losing a 1.5 stones total. I'm 2/3's of the way there and at 12 stone dead that's a easy weight for me to maintain.
Forgot to say -- it sounds like you already have a pretty good idea of what works for you to improve your overall fitness and what specific things you need to work on. So, keep on keeping on!
I think assisted pull-ups can be a pretty good way of building up some basic lat/arm strength; you could also do some inverted rows if you've got something to hang off (either the pull-up bar if the set-up works for that, or some sturdy furniture). Some climbing trainers have argued that we're more often pulling *in* than straight down when climbing, therefore rows are at least as important as pull-ups.
Just don't over-do the pull-ups (or rows) if your elbows start complaining.
Then a push motion helps keep things balanced (and gives you triceps strength for mantels), so throw in some basic push-ups (off a counter or bench is actually better than doing them off your knees if you need to modify them, as it keeps the plank element).
If you've done a lot of weight training in the past, you probably already know a bunch about strength training, so it's just a question of finding stuff that works for you at home.
Some people (I'm one of them) get a lot out of yoga and find it complements climbing very well; there are lots of good classes available on DVDs or on YouTube, so it can be a good no-equipment home option. I think it can especially help with keeping your shoulders flexible and counter-acting the forwards rounding that a lot of us get from climbing (and computer use). Plus, great for balance, flexibility and proprioception.
1
In reply to Noo Noo:
OK sounds good.
Also light weights also counts as cardio which might be a good balance between strength, muscle mass and general fitness too. Sets of 10-15 reps of your chosen exercise.
Have you looked into a Huel diet? Again I would obviously consult a professional if this is the sort of food that would be OK for you, but they have plenty nutrition info on their website. I eat Huel about an hour before going climbing because I go from work and can't eat a proper meal. Also it's good for longer days climbing to have a nutritous food instead of a sandwich or something.
OK sounds good.
Also light weights also counts as cardio which might be a good balance between strength, muscle mass and general fitness too. Sets of 10-15 reps of your chosen exercise.
Have you looked into a Huel diet? Again I would obviously consult a professional if this is the sort of food that would be OK for you, but they have plenty nutrition info on their website. I eat Huel about an hour before going climbing because I go from work and can't eat a proper meal. Also it's good for longer days climbing to have a nutritous food instead of a sandwich or something.
Post edited at 11:34
In reply to slab_happy:
I forgot to mention the time-honoured option of doing triceps dips off the kitchen counter, as another useful push motion.
Obviously, don't beat yourself up with the strength training and do more than you can recover from adequately, but it can certainly be useful to build up some strength if you're starting from a relatively low base.
By the way, when you talk about lacking "stamina" when you climb, are you talking about getting "pumped"? (If you're not familiar with the term: forearms get swollen and hard, hands stop being able to hold onto things.) Or do you mean more general fatigue?
I forgot to mention the time-honoured option of doing triceps dips off the kitchen counter, as another useful push motion.
Obviously, don't beat yourself up with the strength training and do more than you can recover from adequately, but it can certainly be useful to build up some strength if you're starting from a relatively low base.
By the way, when you talk about lacking "stamina" when you climb, are you talking about getting "pumped"? (If you're not familiar with the term: forearms get swollen and hard, hands stop being able to hold onto things.) Or do you mean more general fatigue?
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