/ Loose pigtail at Cawdor

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kermit_uk - on 16 Jun 2017
I climbed at Cawdor Quarry for the first time a couple days ago. It is quite different felt a bit like adventure trad only with bolts. With some more traffic I think it would be a great venue. I'll be going back

My concern though was a lower off. I call them pigtails. A single lower off point that means you don't have to untie, just twist the rope and feed it though the tail.

The one at top of Brazilian Style however can twist. I had been hanging on it trying to remember how to twist the rope through no issues then when I grabbed the tail to sort out my QD I felt it move. A bit more inspection and by hand I could twist it, not a lot and not easily but it was unnerving. The only other option was a very rusty lower off above or a different pigtail to the side about 3m I decided reluctantly to lower off the one I was on and all was fine.

I guess my question is why put in a lower off that has no redundancy? The bull horns that you can thread without untying are still two points in the rock. Is this a financial thing?

Anyway you should all go there and climb some fun routes! ????
kristian - on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to kermit_uk:

I can understand why people get freaked out with just one bolt at the belay. However the belay bolts would never be subjected to the loading of a protection bolt as it is only bounced on by the climber and belayer. Should we then insist on a pair of bolts all the way up? The pigtails tend to be quite big and chunky and do cost a lot more than a standard bolt. I do understand, it does feel wrong to lower off a single bolt. It maybe helpful to pass on your findings to http://www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/ I am sure it can be looked into. It would be good to leave a donation if you have not already.
gethin_allen on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to kristian:

"> I can understand why people get freaked out with just one bolt at the belay. However the belay bolts would never be subjected to the loading of a protection bolt as it is only bounced on by the climber and belayer. "

But, the top anchors and the first bolt are the only ones where you're only attached to a single point and a fall from the first bolt is unlikely to be as catastrophic as a fall from the top. I guess you could mitigate for all these situations by re-clipping all your gear to the opposite rope as you second a route (assuming it's single pitch) and using a prussic loop when being lowered to protect against the anchor failing. But this is a lot of faff and not fool proof.
Timmd on 16 Jun 2017
In reply to kermit_uk:

It could seem if you wanted redundancy in anything it'd be the anchor you lower off from?
Rock to Fakey - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to gethin_allen:

> I guess you could mitigate for all these situations by re-clipping all your gear to the opposite rope as you second a route (assuming it's single pitch) and using a prussic loop when being lowered to protect against the anchor failing. But this is a lot of faff and not fool proof.

I see how this works now! But does anyone do it anywhere? Does the prusik get worn through quickly?
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jimtitt - on 18 Jun 2017
In reply to kermit_uk:

Standard practice in areas where only one bolt is provided at the top (like most of the Frankenjura and southern Germany for example) is to always leave the last draw before the lower-off in place until the last person wants to strip the route, they can test the top bolt to their hearts content protected by the lower one and the chance it suddenly corrodes through or the resin fails in the 30 seconds it takes to be lowered are somewhat remote.

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