/ Modern Slavery In The UK

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Timmd on 10 Aug 2017
We need to keep your eyes peeled for the signs and people and sectors mentioned I guess.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40885353?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaig...

It could seem the dark side to human nature will always exist, & it needs to be kept contained...

Crewey-Rob on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Timmd:

Slavery will get worse if demand for menial workers rises after BREXIT™ (if the right to live and work where we choose is abolished and we lose a massive part of the workforce). The politicians and civil servants will turn a blind eye to slavery if it keeps the cogs of the economy running smoothly. The 1970's prediction was optimistic and we're headed for the 1700's!
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summo on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Crewey-Rob:

It's ok for east Europeans to work longs hours, live ten to a caravan, with inadequate kitchen or toilet / shower facilities.... in order to keep veg cheap or uk hotels ticking over.. But when it becomes brits having to do the same work it becomes slavery?
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Crewey-Rob on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to summo:

I'm just saying "where will the workers come from?" if we abolish the freedom of movement? There'll be a big hole in the job market and the criminal underworld will probably capitalise on this demand (as they already are doing).
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Lusk - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Crewey-Rob:

Are you implying that there's going to be a massive increase in people trafficking and more UK employers illegally 'employing' slaves to keep their strawberry prices down?
summo on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Crewey-Rob:

> I'm just saying "where will the workers come from?" if we abolish the freedom of movement? There'll be a big hole in the job market and the criminal underworld will probably capitalise on this demand (as they already are doing).

http://www.visaforuk.co.uk/seasonal_agricultural_worker.html

Something like this which existed before freedom of movement.

If people are exploited now, perhaps it's the legislation and employers who need to change, Brexit only effects the scale but isn't the cause? I think at the moment because it's mainly foreigners who suffer, it's out of sight out of mind. As long as folk can get a bag of carrots for 50p who cares how they reached the supermarket....
MG - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Lusk:

Seems likely I would say if legal workers, with associated rights, can no longer come. You voted for this mess I believe.
Crewey-Rob on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Lusk:

If you can't get a workforce legally, the temptation to get one nefariously is going to be greater.
FactorXXX - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Crewey-Rob:

I'm just saying "where will the workers come from?" if we abolish the freedom of movement? There'll be a big hole in the job market and the criminal underworld will probably capitalise on this demand (as they already are doing).

Maybe the current situation is actually making it easier to exploit vulnerable Eastern Europeans in that you don't have to smuggle them into the country?
Just put them in a car with a promise of a job and you have a sex worker/farm labourer/cleaner, etc.
Crewey-Rob on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to FactorXXX:

People will still come to the UK if our borders are tightened. They'll just arrive on a tourist visa and stay. Borders are porous these days you lot need to pluck your heads out of the sand. The answer lies in deeper integration and not in becoming insular and backwards. Freedom of movement and the right to work anywhere within the EU is a positive thing.
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baron - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Crewey-Rob:

Unless your a modern slave, brought into the UK because movement is free and then exploited.
FactorXXX - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Crewey-Rob:

People will still come to the UK if our borders are tightened. They'll just arrive on a tourist visa and stay. Borders are porous these days you lot need to pluck your heads out of the sand. The answer lies in deeper integration and not in becoming insular and backwards. Freedom of movement and the right to work anywhere within the EU is a positive thing.

The current situation allows easy access to any EU citizen to come to the UK to work and people who voted Remain argue that this is beneficial to the UK.
The same situation allows organised crime to introduce people from the same regions into the UK, but under their rules and for their benefit i.e. people come into this country with promises of good jobs, but end up as prostitutes, etc.
Open borders within the EU might well be beneficial, but you have to acknowledge that there are downsides to it i.e. there is no need to smuggle people into the country to facilitate slavery - you can just drive them in perfectly legally.
Maybe it's you that's burying his head in the sand?
Maybe it's you that thinks that free movement is all positives and no negatives?

By the way, I voted Remain...
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FactorXXX - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to MG:

You voted for this mess I believe.

Increase in slavery - lets blame it on Brexit.
Is there anything that can't be blamed on Brexit?

I voted Remain...
wbo - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Timmd: is that the way most modern day slaves are bought in though, via free movement? What about Chinese slave labour, like the bunch who drowned on Morecambe bay?

Crewey-Rob on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to baron:

Yes, I hadn't considered that. Although if they've come from within the EU they'd be protected by European laws. As with the war on drugs, prohibition drives activity underground where people are then used and abused. By criminalising vast swathes of the work force, they'll seek employment with whoever is prepared to pay them and to the detriment of their working rights.
FactorXXX - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Crewey-Rob:

Yes, I hadn't considered that. Although if they've come from within the EU they'd be protected by European laws.

European laws?
The criminals involved with bringing these people in obviously don't care about such things and the individuals brought in soon get entrapped by their circumstances and all such things go out of the window.
Timmd on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to wbo:
> is that the way most modern day slaves are bought in though, via free movement? What about Chinese slave labour, like the bunch who drowned on Morecambe bay?

I'd guess that they came via fee movement, and were then coerced once over here, it can seem to happen like that for a lot of people, they're induced over here and then have their passports taken from them, and they become trapped in their situation, from not fully knowing what they can do to help themselves, and by being controlled bullied and held by the people exploiting them.

I guess f I wanted to make life easier for myself as a slave master, I'd induce people over here to avoid the effort of having to force them, as there'd be less time and effort involved, and money potentially, too. At least we know it's happening, which is something.
Post edited at 22:38
Big Ger - on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to Timmd:
You're a little ray of sunshine, as ever....

However, your point is valid;

A vast marijuana farm discovered in a former nuclear bunker in Wiltshire was staffed by trafficked Vietnamese teenagers working in slave-like conditions, police say.

The three teenagers, the youngest of whom was initially thought to be 15, and one adult in his 30s, were found working as gardeners inside the 1980s bunker after a midnight raid on Wednesday.

DI Paul Franklin from Wiltshire police said officers recognised that the four gardeners were victims, adding: “No one would do this by choice.” He described the living and working conditions in the 20-room bunker, hidden in the countryside, as “grim for anyone, let alone a 15-year-old”.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/24/huge-cannabis-farm-staffed-trafficked-vietnamese-tee...


Victims of the war on drugs....
Post edited at 00:05
I like climbing - on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to Timmd:

I think there need to be more police in the UK. An increase would help combat and solve crime. Reducing police numbers while the population increases is crazy.
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Timmd on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to Big Ger:
It depends on how you look at being a ray of sunshine? Bringing attention to something bad, and including something about how to spot the signs, is a positive thing in itself, even if the subject matter isn't cheery, to do anything about a bad thing we need to know about it. The end result may be ultimately cheerier.

I do get what you mean btw...
Post edited at 00:55
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Big Ger - on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to Timmd:

Thanks for taking it that way old mate.

But a constant focus on negative events over which we have no control isn't good for anyone.

I agree we should be aware of potential abuse though.
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Timmd on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to Big Ger:

You're right, it isn't any good. I see it as a positive thread, though, because it says what to look out for.
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Ridge - on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to Crewey-Rob:

> Yes, I hadn't considered that. Although if they've come from within the EU they'd be protected by European laws. As with the war on drugs, prohibition drives activity underground where people are then used and abused. By criminalising vast swathes of the work force, they'll seek employment with whoever is prepared to pay them and to the detriment of their working rights.

TBH being in the EU hasn't been of much benefit in preventing slave labour and the sex traffic has it? In fact it seems to be facilitating it very nicely.

(I also voted Remain, BTW)
bedspring on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to Ridge:

> TBH being in the EU hasn't been of much benefit in preventing slave labour and the sex traffic has it? In fact it seems to be facilitating it very nicely.

> (I also voted Remain, BTW)

Much slavery is caused by borders and getting into Schenginen for a poor uneducated person is incredibly difficult, therefore creating a role for people traffickers, so I would agree with you.
MonkeyPuzzle - on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to the thread:

Isn't citing Brexit as a factor either way kind of a red herring? Here's a controversial one: up the minimum wage and pay for inspection and enforcement from taxes.
tony on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> Isn't citing Brexit as a factor either way kind of a red herring?

Yes. The people involved in slavery aren't bound by laws, so freedom of movement (or lack of it ) is irrelevant. People-smuggling goes on around the world regardless of immigration controls, and it's naive to think we'll be better placed if we have more control over our borders if we don't have the will and the wherewithal to inspect, investigate and enforce.
Big Ger - on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:
> Isn't citing Brexit as a factor either way kind of a red herring?

Brexit cannot be directly responsible for teenage and younger kids being smuggled from Vietnam to Wiltshire to run cannabis factories can it? They are hardly going to be replacing European workers.

Still, as we see in the, "Will Trump attack NK?" thread, there are some so obsessed with Brexit that they cannot help but spew it out where ever they can.
Post edited at 22:51
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