UKC

Okay, perhaps a stupid question but....

If you second a route then you have climbed it before.

Then if you go back and lead it what do you call it?

You might argue it's a repeat (this is what I've logged mine as). But then if you Lead it as a Redpoint or Ground up then technically it's a repeat also as you have climbed it before.

So how do you draw the line?

In reply to springfall2008:

I guess technically it's a redpoint, though if fairly easy it will feel more like a repeat. A route you climb ground-up won't be a repeat (by definition).

In reply to springfall2008:

The labels aren't ideal for that case but technically:
It was your first successful lead, so not a repeat.
And you'd previously had a rope from above, so not ground up.
Best option therefore is Redpoint.

If you're someone who values top-rope success though, there's no reason why you couldn't log seconded ascents as onsight, flash, repeat or whatever. Just that it would be out of sync with more conventional use of those terms.

In reply to john arran:

For a clean second I'd log second onsight.

But then if I go back and lead do you think it should be lead Redpoint? UKC automatically selects repeat.

In reply to springfall2008:

I mean, people say seconding a route clean isn't technically an on sight, but I log it as such in order to remember whether I did it clean first go... Same with logging my first clean lead as a redpoint even if trad with prior top rope... Although it might not satisfy ethical purists, it's a simple way of remembering when I first managed certain things, how much practice it took, etc.
I'm not logging things to show off (there's not much in my logbook to be proud of), it's purely for my own amusement

In reply to springfall2008:

Log as best fits your needs. It only strangers on the interweb who get all hot under the collar about it.

In reply to springfall2008:

Why not just go out and enjoy a climb, without wanting to split meaningless hairs over the "style" of ascent?

In reply to dr_botnik:


Because you just watched someone climb it?

In reply to springfall2008:
No matter what style you managed to 2nd it with, your later lead log options will be limited to repeat, dogged, or dnf.
So it's a repeat, but now a clean lead, it's the same as redpoint, so just note in your log that it was lead clean in one push after previously 2nd'ing it if u want. The style that you 2nded it in explains how easy / harder it might have been to lead it clean. Eg 2nd dogged could imply loads of practice, like TR dog, or lead dog.
Having lead it clean after 2nding clean is more satisfying, so u just make a note to self to say so.
I hardly remember what a leader has done when 2nding... it can often be out of sight, or wouldn't fit what i wanna do anyway, unless there's only 1 critical way, in which case if clearly got the beta i might change it to 2nded flash with beta option , just decide what is honest to yourself.

In reply to springfall2008:



To me Redpoint suggests climbing it after systematic practice, whereas if you simply lead something you'd previously seconded it's a repeat.

However all that really matters is that you decide how to interpret these and then stick to it. It's only singificant to you and perhaps a few of your mates so what really matters is to be consistent.