UKC

Ok, I know this has been asked before, but times change and so on.

Grigri, afaik, is chiral and favours the right handed.

I've tried eldrid jul to good effect but I was wondering if anyone can suggest a better belay device for sport climbing.

and I'd also like to use it in multipitch
ta
Matt

In reply to mutt:

For single-pitch sport the ClickUp is really good, and works as well with either hand.

In reply to mutt:

You can get the Alpine up which is great for double ropes, IMO much better than th Mega Jul which I find increadibly snatchy and nit much fun to use. The Alpine up feeds almost like a standard tuber.

In reply to beardy mike:

I used an Alpine Up last week for the first time & found it equally comfortable belaying left or right handed, and handling generally good. The next thing I'll be doing is putting a retainer cord on it though; feels quite fiddly & easy to drop whilst setting it up.

It won't be replacing my grigri for single rope belaying, but I suspect it will become my first choice for double ropes.

In reply to mutt:

Although I am right handed, I swapped to using the grigri with my left as I had a shoulder injury that normal usage was exacerbating. Works perfectly well that way round too.

In reply to beardy mike:
thanks for the suggestion. The Alpine Up looks quite complicated. I guess I could get used to selecting the right type of karibiner and the right hole to put it in.....

is the instruction to use a wide HMS Karibiner code for a screw gate karibiner rather than a snap gate?

In reply to hms:

ding ding...


The right-handed bias only comes into play when you're lowering. Actual belaying can be done with either hand (I do).

In reply to mutt:

Hells bells, can we not have *one* thread on here that isn’t about left and right...!!

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:



thats why I chose my words carefully . Chirality is the correct term ....

In reply to HeMa:



but is it any use in multipitch? seems a bit on the heavy side and a pain to belay from above? I stand to be corrected by the more knowledgeable.

In reply to mutt:

I wouldn't, GriGri that is... but I know others do.

For multibitch, a normal Reverso or XP Guide is more than enough. And GriGri is for single pitch stuff (mainly bolts, but sometimes trad).

I've tried clip-ups and others, yet at least from my experience the orig. GriGri is still the golden benchmark for single pitch stuff.

If you wan't something more multipurpose, be prepared to sacrifice something.

In reply to mutt:

thanks for your help. I've purchased at Alpine Up based on its ability to auto lock in sport on 1 or 2 ropes, and also to auto lock in abseil. Hopefully the learning curve isn't too difficult.

Matt

In reply to all:

thanks for your help. I've purchased at Alpine Up based on its ability to auto lock in sport on 1 or 2 ropes, and also to auto lock in abseil. Hopefully the learning curve isn't too difficult.

Matt

In reply to mutt:

A smart if you like no moving parts.
An Eddy if you like moving parts - although this is still right biased when lowering

In reply to mutt:

We had an Alpineup to test from work recently and I thought it was mediocre at best. The thing is yes - it does everything, but it doesn't do it well, is fiddly to use and is SO heavy for a device that's supposed to be for Alpine.

`It works, but I wasn't a big fan.

In reply to mutt:

Sorry for not getting back to you. OK so the alpine up comes with a biner for you to use. It is specific to the belay plate. In terms of use there are diagrams on the side showing you how to use it and it's pretty straightforward in normal use. The other uses ar not that hard to figure out either. For abseiling shallow angled slabs I use the non assisted lock belay. The "magic plate" function is excellent, much better to ATC Guide, Reverso or Pivot - those are the only two other modes I use and they are easy to figure out. The only other thing to be aware is that there is an antipanic feature on the autolocking abseil/lower - if you over egg pulling the handle, descent is actually slower - you have to hit a sweet spot which allows a smooth quick descent.

In reply to mutt:
An SRC would do.

http://www.climbingdirect.co.uk/wild-country-srcbelaymaster-set-445-p.asp

Edit: actually I have one you could have for a token contribution. (I now use a GriGri)

In reply to MischaHY:

Have you actually used it for alpine climbing? I have extensively and for example the fact that you can easily lock off your leader whilst he's setting the belay and you need to get ready is super useful. Or if you need to eat, adjust clothing etc. Personally of all the assisted lock belay devices I find it the easiest to use - better than the Grigri, Megajul, WC SRC (if you can find them!) Metolius BRD at any rate. Of course this is in my opinion but it seems to be shared by quite a few on here...

In reply to Fraser:

Don't believe they are made any more...

In reply to Fraser:

These guys are bogus - they are still listing tech friends and forged friends which haven't been in production for 8 years or so...

http://www.climbingdirect.co.uk/wild-country-technical-friend-sets-568-p.as...

In reply to MischaHY:



I know what you mean, it´ s got the best braking performance with thin ropes of anything I´ ve measured and the "guide mode" is as good as it gets, a lot of the rest is kinda average or worse. For skinny twin/half ropes I´ d use it but I never do, for anything else there´ s alternatives, apart from taking on test mine just gathers dust.
The new version of the Smart might be a better choice now Mammut have improved the woeful braking performance of the older model. Personally I just use a GriGri and an ATC XP, there are plenty of left-handers (like me) that just learn use Grigri´ s like everything else in a right-hand world.

In reply to beardy mike:


Interesting, cheers. Theirs was one of the few links I could find with an image of the device. I've seen some in use by climbing wall instructors but must admit I haven't used mine in several years.

In reply to jimtitt:

The addition of relatively easy release in guide mode is welcome, and performance with 7ishmm ropes is also good.

Lowering off is also lovely and smooth.

I personally still can't help but feel you're better off with 2-3 more specialized devices at a similar overall weight. Plus it needs a massive biner to work properly in my experience.

In reply to beardy mike:

I have, just not extensively. Ever used a Jul 2? That's my personal favourite from the semi autos, assuming we don't include grigris (clearly superior to everything else in my eyes)

In reply to beardy mike:


The Alpine Up is a monstrosity. You may as well strap a piece of angle iron to your harness. A partner of mine has one and I hate when she uses it. While I was desparately trying to clip on a hard (for me) sport route, the action of me pulling the rope up caused it to lock - cue 3-5 seconds of her desperately fiddling to release the device as I'm screaming down for slack, pumping my arms off.

On the contrary, I could marry my Mega Jul I love it so much. It has to be the most versatile belay device ever made and also one of the lightest. Assisted breaking, great for sport, great for trad, guide mode/autoblock, self-locking for abseils.

The only negatives you could draw are that is does generate more heat due to its small size and on first use it does feel snatchy but you very soon learn how to use it and it becomes as smooth as any other devices.

I can't rate it high enough.

In reply to radddogg:

Haha - I guess that's opinions for you! Likewise I could say about the Megajul being stainless so scratching and gouging the hell out of your biners, just where you don't want them gouged, being made of stainless so they retain heat ever and a day, being small so they get got easily, being a pain in the butt to abseil on, having very variable breaking force depending on rope size (indeed according to a member of this thread having woefully inadequate breaking force). But it is lighter than an Alpine up.

Trust me - if I were using it you wouldn't struggle for slack, where as you'd be if I were using a megajul... hate the thing

In reply to MischaHY:

No I've not used the Jul 2 - the Mega Jul somewhat put me off.

In reply to beardy mike:

The jul 2 is far superior in my opinion. Of the all the 'long nose' style semi-autos it's the best performer in my opinion. Paying out slack is a dream and lowering is very comfy. I'd recommend trying one if you can. I distinctly remember disliking the original megajul when trying it.

In reply to MischaHY:

This is so, it´ s by far the best device with sub-8mm ropes.
Until you can´ t lower because there´ s too much friction elsewhere in the route so then you have to remove it and change back to a GriGri (this happened to us twice when we were field testing).
This is so, there´ s no one device that rules, there are good all-round devices like the ATC XP or the Pivot but for more advanced/wealthier users there´ s no reason not to use a selection of better devices to suit the occasion.

In reply to beardy mike:

Indeed!


I used the same carabiner, a BD gridlock magnetron and there is absolutely no scratching or gouging due to metal on metal contact. The only wear is from the rope. Other carabiners may be different?


Won't deny the braking area gets hot but only when lowering and after that it's hanging harmlessly from your harness. Being small they also cool quickly(!)


Yeah, I'll agree it does take some getting used to, especially on long stretchy ropes, but you do get somewhat used to it, finding the knack, and the benefit of being able to trust it to hold you while you retreive stuck gear outweigh this in my opinion


Yeah, I'll agree the combination of a skinny rope and skinny carabiner does negate the braking effect, however the instructions explicitely advise the max/min rope diameters. Witch a chunky carabiner, which I'd expect anyone to use for belaying you can really push the limits too. If you're using really skinny ropes you should be using the Micro Jul which is specifically designed for this. In my opinion this falls into the category of 'pilot error'


So is my car


Yeah, I guess my experience is based on my belayer not being used to the device. With the Mega Jul though I can't see why you would ever struggle. Your braking hand sits with your thumb through the yellow release loop and you simply pull slack through with your other hand. There is a good video of this on youtube. The only time I've ever 'short-roped' anyone was when they pulled through a load of slack to try to clip a bolt well above them then dropped the rope. They looked like they were going to come off so I took the slack in (obviously taking my thumb out of the release loop), at the same time they yanked the rope up simulating a fall and locking the brake. There was half a second where I transitioned from taking in to releasing the brake release loop.

Wow, epic post or what?! I know I've gone overboard here but I'm just trying to dispell some of the myths associated with the Mega Jul. Your experiences are very common but generally experienced by new users who haven't gotten used to it. For me the diversity and all the positives of the device far outweigh the negatives. I carry one tiny belay device whereas most people have to carry two or even three separate devices to cover sport, trad and abseilling.

In reply to jimtitt:


AustriAlpin Fish is shockingly good with skinny singles. Honestly the best control I've had from any belay device, period.


This. And also the intense faff incurred when the climber reaches the ground but there's still slightly too much tension to completely release the device and you end up bouncing the weird plastic lever thing to loosen it off.

In reply to radddogg:

My experience with the scored carabiner resulted from using it in guide mode. The scored biner was the one attatching the plate to the anchor and the second fell and was lowered. It was the only time I used the plate in anger as the plate put 3 serious grooves in the anchor biner right where the rope runs. Having worked with Edelrid designing their Bulletproof HMS, this was one of the reasons cited - the Bruce HMS which is stainless was specifically designed so that you had stainless on stainless but of course a stainless HMS weighs considerably more than a car and hence the Bulletproof HMS with a stainless insert.

Stainless steel specifically retains heat - that is just the material. Again my experience was it was hot enough after an abseil to singe your skin - not really what I want from a plate. Hot, sure...

As for max - min rope sizes... I'd personally take what nearly every manufacturer says with a pinch of salt. Sure, you can use those diameters but they are not optimal...

In reply to beardy mike:

Hmmm, I know they have revised the device a few times, I wonder if they ever revised the guide loop? I've used mine in guide mode on at least 20 routes including lowering someone off a route on Holyhead mountain with no discernible damage.