/ Clipping the rope into the biner on the bolt

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Rock to Fakey - on 07 Nov 2017

I've thought a bolt was poorly placed a few times, and worried about hitting a ledge, used a short quickdraw, but decided to clip the rope in the top biner.
This would marginally reduce the fall by about 15cm, which might matter, but the disadvantage is you could crossload that carabiner, and melt the top of the quickdraw if the rope lays accross it and u fall.
It would be better to just pop a single carabiner on that bolt then, but there's still some risk of cross loading it?
Post edited at 15:09
john arran - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
It's long been common practice to use a single screwgate on the first bolt if there's a real risk of hitting the deck before clipping the second. I don't think cross-loading is much of a problem as krabs on bolt hangers are pretty good at self-aligning, but because the krab will be pretty much rigid in the hanger, the chance of the rope unclipping from the krab, or the krab unclipping from the hanger, will be much higher. Hence the screwgate.

Edit: clipping the top krab of a quickdraw is a particularly bad idea, as the dogbone is highly likely to be shot after a single fall due to friction heat damage.
Post edited at 15:55
jon on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to john arran:

> Edit: clipping the top krab of a quickdraw is a particularly bad idea, as the dogbone is highly likely to be shot after a single fall due to friction heat damage.

Yes, I remember an accident some years ago due to a climber doing exactly this and not noticing.
innes - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

> and melt the top of the quickdraw if the rope lays accross it and u fall.
People often don’t realise that doing this can wreck your rope as well, where it melts into/along with the QuickDraw.

fred99 - on 09 Nov 2017
In reply to john arran:

> Edit: clipping the top krab of a quickdraw is a particularly bad idea, as the dogbone is highly likely to be shot after a single fall due to friction heat damage.

Not only that, but assuming you always put the same Krab on the bolt, there could be burring of the Krab - in the event of a fall this could damage the rope.
For this reason it's always safest to have 1 (krab) end of the quickdraw/dogbone for the bolt, and another for the rope.
bpmclimb on 09 Nov 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

> I've thought a bolt was poorly placed a few times, and worried about hitting a ledge, used a short quickdraw, but decided to clip the rope in the top biner.

That's a big no. If you fall, even a short way, you'll almost certainly damage the top of the sling; you're also likely to "glass" a section of your rope.

Rock to Fakey - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

Cheers all, l i think i'll start carrying a dedicated small screwgate (twistlocks etc are all a bit too much to manage one handed?) for this purpose, which will come in handy now + then, ... If the biner is always hung with the gate opening downwards, then the bolt burring the biner from hanging / falling on it only occurs at one end, + yr rope stays good, no burrs to worry about, so long as it remains in that orientation.
Ciro - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

Reducing your fall by 15cm might make you feel more secure, but if that's genuinely your margin of error for avoiding injury I'd say it was better to use a clip-stick until you're happy committing to the moves as a no fall zone.
alanblyth - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
I have a heavy steel 'biner for use when a hanger/peg is poorly located and cross-loading is likely, I might use that in this situation,

I'm not sure I have ever been in this situation on a sport route, are you thinking Alpine? If Alpine I would probably use the quickdraw and accept the danger, otherwise rope-drag could get difficult,

Edit: I have seen poorly placed bolts on sport routes - but not in combination with a ledge and some genuine danger, rather just 'mean' bolts creating a psychological challenge,
Post edited at 13:10
AlanLittle - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to alanblyth:

As en axample on a sport route - surprisingly from Kalymnos - the second bolt on Pic Pic (6b).

It's at chest height above a great big flake that you're standing on when you clip it. The crux is then (onsight spoiler alert) passing this bolt and standing up just above it before you can clip the third. A normal length quickdraw and an alert belayer would *probably* keep your ankles safe from the flake, but I put a single screwgate on it to give my belayer 20cms more time to react.

Personally I would have placed that bolt a bit higher and/or the third a bit closer. And one of my mates did do it with the third pre-clipped, no shame in that either.

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