UKC

Hey there, 

not sure this sits in the right forum but there isn't yet a category for house climbing. 

Anyone knows what anchor/ wall plug/ eye bolt I would need to safely ascend a masonry wall on a rope? I'm talking about a standard exterior brick wall. 

Any ideas? Cheers in advance

 

In reply to Mattia:

I don't think there is really such a thing as a standard exterior brick wall.  Construction techniques have varied a lot over the last couple of centuries and the 1990s cavity wall of my flat is very different from the Victorian tenement next door, and different again from the skewed arch brick rail bridge just down the road. Some bricks are hollow or have holes, some don't.  For a safe anchor you will need to choose a fixing appropriate to the construction. Depending on what exactly you're trying to do, it's probably a good idea to talk to a professional.

In reply to Jack B:

Hello Jack, thanks for your suggestions and yes, I could have been more clear. I'm dealing with a cavity brick wall made out of solid bricks, 70's construction. If there are any guides to what fixings are appropriate, feel free to point them out. 

And if there are any professionals on here, any thoughts? Cheers. 

In reply to Mattia:

I think Jack has a point in saying that not all brick is the same, bricks than look solid from the outside aren't necessarily solid; some have large frogs, some have holes vertically through them. 

What are you hoping to do/support on this bolt/bolts?

In reply to Mattia:

If they are solid then two 12mm/1/2" resin anchors would be fine, I´d install them one above the other in the middle of the brick using spin-in resin capsules since there´s only a couple so getting a cartridge system wouldn´t be worthwhile. In "normal" bricks they would be rated for around 200kg each in shear with a safety factor of 5.

If the bricks are hollow you´ll need to use a resin system with internal sleeves (sieves). Anyone like Fischer makes suitable ones.

In reply to Mattia:

I do not recommend this whatsoever, but in the sixties, me and my mates used to hammer 6" nails completely into the mortar, tie them off with cord and hang off them in etriers. We also used half inch machine bolts, hammered in between bricks. My parents did not approve.

Loads of routes on our house, including one to my bedroom window when I was locked out at night., and a great one surmounting the overhang of the porch.

Again, do not try this at home.

In reply to Mattia:

Have a look on youtube at how Fred Dibnah used to do it. Looks surprisingly solid and fairly low tech.

From about 1:25

youtube.com/watch?v=F04dGK1_wYA&

Thanks for all the replies and infos, especially for the technical data, jimtitt. 

The background info to my endeavour: I live in a ground floor maisonette and have a large jasmin bush growing from ground level to above the 1st floor window. Every half year I pop to travis perkins to hire an outrageously expensive 5 metre ladder to tidy up the jasmin. Sooo, since i've acquired some new climbing gear as of late, I've been toying with the idea of installing an anchor so that i can thread the rope through and prussik up for a wee bit of gardening (and practise my emergency rope skills while at it). 

I shall do some tests to see if the bricks are hollow or not, however the garden walls seem to be made of the identical same bricks and are definitely not hollow. 

By the way, is the a chance that the whole brick gets pulled out of the walls or is that physically and structurally unlikely? 

 

In reply to tlouth7:

Surprisingly simple and genius but extremely dodgy by today's standards, eh. 

In reply to Mattia:

Rather you than me; I'd be bricking it personally.

In reply to Mattia:

70´s build it will have real cement so the bricks are unlikely to pull out, it´s really a question of how many bricks are piled on top of each other that holds them in place but as long as you´re not bolting into the top 3 courses I wouldn´t worry one bit.

To get a picture of what fixings hold look at the two wall-plugs holding a kitchen unit on the wall that can be loaded to 30-50kg or the fixings holding a wall-mounted bog.

In reply to Mattia:

I've used slings larksfooted or prusik knotted round one or two rafters or other strong internal roof timbers. They nearly reach the eves internally. Slide nut part way down its wire so that it and swage don't get in way and push under tiles, gutter, fascia etc as appropriate. Clip one end to the slings and external end to whatever you want.

However this is simpler for me as I have an unlined roof.

I've also used old plumbing pipe holes through wall.....a crowbar or similar on inside with climbing cord sling for through wall hitched to it. Again this is easy for me as I don't have a cavity wall.

You might also try anchors inside rooms if this gives desired height and location eg secured planks across window with padding as appropriate to protect decor.

In reply to Mattia:

However you decide to do it, can you report back with the new wave A grade...

In reply to Mattia:

Isn't this going to entail installing bolts into your neighbour's bit of the property? Also I presume you've thought about how you'll be getting the rope up and back without a ladder? Drilling big holes from a ladder isn't much fun even with a serious drill, take care.

Personally I'd buy a compact extendable ladder or a pole pruner.

jk

In reply to oldie:

 

I've done similar, I put a scaffolding pipe (can't remember why I had one) across an internal door frame and extended from there. So would think a couple of planks, or couple of fence posts would do the same (I'd want some redundancy if using timber)

 

In reply to Mattia:

As someone has pointed out, you'll be fixing this into your neighbour's part of the property so you will need their formal consent.  Furthermore, if you live in a maisonette you presumably have a lease from the owner of the building, so you will also need their written consent.  They'll probably just say no, but if they are willing to consider it at all you can expect to have to pay both the landlord's and your neighbours's legal costs (and your own of course), and perhaps for an engineer's report.  They'll also want you to indemnify them against any damage or other liability, so you'll need some form of insurance.

Safety-critical fixings will need to be to a higher standard than those carrying kitchen units. The strength of brickwork can vary considerably, and it's not really intended to take these kinds of loads.  The mortar might fail, or the brick itself might fracture.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.the-cfa.co.uk%2Fmedia%...

I would say what you are proposing is neither the cheapest nor the simplest solution to your problem.  I'll say nothing about safety.  If hiring is too expensive you can buy ladders which pack down into short sections, although I appreciate that in a maisonette storage may be a problem. 

 

In reply to Mattia:

Sorry, in my earlier post re attaching in loft I hadn't realized you were ground floor maisonette so probably can't use loft etc.

Another option might be the old Robin Hood trick of firing arrow and line over roof and pulling rope after or throwing tennis ball in plastic bag attached to line (methods a bit harder than they sound, my neighbour had a tennis ball hanging from his TV aerial for some days afterwards......offer sweets to friendly child with drone?). Attach rope to tree base etc on other side of house you are working on and use rope in any way you want (will be stretch unless you use static). Probably your upstairs neighbour has back or front garden and you'd need their permission. I've used this for attaching ladders lying on my roof and for other safety backup measures but I haven't put full bodyweight on it so there might be a risk of damaging ridge tiles or gutters.

Alternatively you're almost certain to find someone living near who has a long ladder and might let you borrow it for just a bottle of wine. Less fun though.

 

In reply to Mattia:

My worry would be about the outwards pull on an individual brick. The vertical load would be absolutely fine if you are staying well below the anchor but if you were at the anchor with your feet against the wall, there is going to be an outwards pull and there are a lot of unknowns - e.g how good is the mortar adhesion around the brick, are there wall ties joining the outer leaf and inner leaf, how strong is the brick and is it hollow etc.

Definitely put more than one anchor into more than one brick and link them together, keep the pull downwards and ye should be reet (be careful)

 

 

This has turned into quite an interesting discussion. 

To answer a few points:

-yes, it's a ground floor maisonette, so there's no way of attaching the rope to the roof

-easiest way would probably be asking my upstairs neighbour for access. They have a concrete and brick balcony that would easily hold the rope. Good one-off solution, but was thinking of a long-term thing. 

-Drilling into neighbour's wall. Yeah, good point. I could drill next to the top of my 1st floor window, giving me enough height to work at. Still drilling into building's landlord's wall, that's definitely a consideration. Keeping in mind that the wall is riddled with 45 years worth of scaffolding support holes, cable fixings, phone& internet cables, drainpipe and what not I'm not too fussed (which doesn't mean it's the correct thing to do, i know). 

-Thanks for the doc, Howard J. Interesting read and agree with the safety implications. I could always install a safety tether leading and anchored inside my flat. That would avoid a ground fall. 

-What I just noticed is that there are horizontal 'beams' of poured concrete (you can see the texture/ imprint of wooden boards) on the outside of the house and between each floor. They run across the whole house and are 1-2ft high. Presumably drilling a whole and examining the inside might give clues as to the integrity?

Well, that's the update and I'll let you know whatever solution I go for. For now I'm just enjoying the thread on here. No holes drilled, no lives at risk (yet).

 

In reply to Mattia:

My only experience drilling concrete was largely a failure...I really needed a diamond bit.

Silly suggestion. Make own demountable ladder from quality timber with no flaws (50x50mm prob OK?). Rungs a bit wider than ladder held on each side by single bolt, possibly backed up with lashing where you would be standing for long periods. Two or three struts cut to internal width between rails to prevent collapse of ladder, held lightly by screws through straight metal joining plates. (Apparently people do use DIY ladders with only rungs which are held by long screws into end grain through sides of rails/beams.)  Either dismantle completely after use or remove struts and then collapse it. As a careful climber you would not need to bother about niceties and might halve the number of rungs. Would only be of use if you had a suitable bedroom etc to store it and perhaps use wardrobe to support one end. With a bit (lot?) of imagination and possibly using uprights to avoid drilling for wall brackets it could be a useful shelf for the rest of the year. No prusiking fun however.

In reply to Mattia:

Sound like a poured concrete slab separating each floor, or could be a poured reinforced lintel, drilling into this may not be wise as you might hit the reinforcement steel, exposing it to the elements. 

I'd be looking at something like this: https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Landscaping/d130/Secateurs%2C+Loppers+%26+...

Longer still...

https://www.manomano.co.uk/tree-pruner/fiskars-tree-pruner-anvil-up53-12939...

...and even longer versions of these are available. 

Get a stepladder with a mate footing it, for extra reach. 

 

In reply to Mattia:

Reading this, it's likely that the building has a reinforced concrete frame and the brick walls are non-loadbearing infills between each floor. This would mean that below each beam, the first few courses of brick do not have much force pushing down on them, although if they have coped with wind-loading for 40 something years they should be sound. This just backs up earlier posts about spreading the load over more than one anchor.